The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

The Country is skint. However, many businesses is private ownership are thriving, based on quality skills and services. They can pay their workers what they wish, based on growth and profitability. Perhaps, playing Devils Advocate, and following your line of argument we should move more quickly towards privatisation of the NHS so that nurses can reap similar rewards on pay?

Many of those businesses are paying poverty wages, so maybe we should look into redistributing the wealth? We can afford to pay key workers a living wage if we are prepared to fund it. Back in the day we managed with less billionaires and families could get by on a single income and still afford a house and car - even families with modest incomes. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

The Country is skint. However, many businesses is private ownership are thriving, based on quality skills and services. They can pay their workers what they wish, based on growth and profitability. Perhaps, playing Devils Advocate, and following your line of argument we should move more quickly towards privatisation of the NHS so that nurses can reap similar rewards on pay?

There was a good Rest is Politics last Wednesday where they talked about NHS. If you not listened the Podcast before, it's good, moderate and intelligent conversation on lots of different issues.

I hope we see some good reform of the NHS soon. There must be options that fall between don't change anything or become America!

[Wolfie]

24 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Many of those businesses are paying poverty wages, so maybe we should look into redistributing the wealth? We can afford to pay key workers a living wage if we are prepared to fund it. Back in the day we managed with less billionaires and families could get by on a single income and still afford a house and car - even families with modest incomes. 

Good job we're not allowed to get political on here ?

[Archied]

37 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Good job we're not allowed to get political on here ?

Since covid and net zero ( let’s be clear the timescale and urgency of getting REAL net zero is my issue not the value of getting there) the overlap and intrusion into every area of our lives by politics /politicians make it very difficult to speak about anything without it being a big part of the debate,

for me the issue is entrenched party political posting as to be honest I believe our two party system is broken and there’s little between them and nowhere for people to go 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Many of those businesses are paying poverty wages, so maybe we should look into redistributing the wealth? We can afford to pay key workers a living wage if we are prepared to fund it. Back in the day we managed with less billionaires and families could get by on a single income and still afford a house and car - even families with modest incomes. 

Like others have said I don’t see what the success of Bentley has to do with Covid or even the NHS. You seem to imply that Bentley owners must have too much money so why not tax them more and give nurses a big pay rise. 

well maybe the Bentley owner had to work hard to enjoy their luxury car.  If they had to Pay more Tax instead of buying a fancy car they might not work so hard which might also make their employer less productive. Less profits for their employer means less tax. And the Bentley owner might also get paid less and so generate less tax .

 

Bentleys will not make so much profit and so pay less corporation tax . And their workers might have to reduce their hours some may be laid off. And obviously pay less tax too. 
 

all because of you being jealous of a Bentley owner and their fancy car. And the nurses still won’t get their big pay rise. 

 

[ariotofmyown]

16 minutes ago, Archied said:

overlap and intrusion into every area of our lives by politics /politicians

I don't feel that at all. If anything, some more intrusion into the UKs problems might actually be welcome.

I'd like the govermment to intrude so it's much cheaper for me to get public transport to work, rather than it being much more expensive and slower.

I'd like a way of walking or getting a bus to my local station, but car or taxi is the only way. Can they intervene in that.

That's before they get onto the mess of train strikes, nhs strikes, teacher strikes. Boring Culture Wars and sitting on your hands moaning about small boats crossing seems to be missing the point somewhat.

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Wolfie said:

Good job we're not allowed to get political on here ?

I think the complaints of our health workers (applauded 1984 style in the lockdown) having worked at the front line during the pandemic, surely is relevant? 

[GboroRam]

37 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Like others have said I don’t see what the success of Bentley has to do with Covid or even the NHS. You seem to imply that Bentley owners must have too much money so why not tax them more and give nurses a big pay rise. 

well maybe the Bentley owner had to work hard to enjoy their luxury car.  If they had to Pay more Tax instead of buying a fancy car they might not work so hard which might also make their employer less productive. Less profits for their employer means less tax. And the Bentley owner might also get paid less and so generate less tax .

 

Bentleys will not make so much profit and so pay less corporation tax . And their workers might have to reduce their hours some may be laid off. And obviously pay less tax too. 
 

all because of you being jealous of a Bentley owner and their fancy car. And the nurses still won’t get their big pay rise. 

 

I just want to see a fairer deal for all workers. It seems unfair that some prosper and others struggle perpetually. I don't think it's jealousy. 

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Well, they're owned by VW, but they do at least manufacture most of their cars in the UK, that's true. It wasn't all good news for those British workers though :

Nice, eh?

No not nice, but it is the price of working in the private sector. Often decent salary packages, but not necessarily security of employment, however well they might be performing.
Whereas Nurses and NHS workers effectively have total ‘job for life’ security, and pretty good pension provision, all protected by union support, but they don’t get paid as much as they might be worth. 
Them are the options. 

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Many of those businesses are paying poverty wages, so maybe we should look into redistributing the wealth? We can afford to pay key workers a living wage if we are prepared to fund it. Back in the day we managed with less billionaires and families could get by on a single income and still afford a house and car - even families with modest incomes. 

Ok mate. You can get off your soapbox now.

[PistoldPete]

14 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I just want to see a fairer deal for all workers. It seems unfair that some prosper and others struggle perpetually. I don't think it's jealousy. 

You can easily say it's not fair we don't get index linked pensions or all the benefits that public sector workers get. People in the public sector are actually on average better off than people in the private sector.  

I get what you say about the very rich but contrary to all the stuff about non doms and offshore accounts and all that I think they do pay a fair whack overall. 

 

[Poynton ram]

Just seen he has been suspended from the Tories for allegedly spreading misinformation about the covid vaccine. From memory wasn’t he very vocal about giving support to Derby during the administration and spoke well. Could be the end of his political career now I guess

Edited January 11, 2023 by Poynton ram

[Archied]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

I don't feel that at all. If anything, some more intrusion into the UKs problems might actually be welcome.

I'd like the govermment to intrude so it's much cheaper for me to get public transport to work, rather than it being much more expensive and slower.

I'd like a way of walking or getting a bus to my local station, but car or taxi is the only way. Can they intervene in that.

That's before they get onto the mess of train strikes, nhs strikes, teacher strikes. Boring Culture Wars and sitting on your hands moaning about small boats crossing seems to be missing the point somewhat.

Yep you have clearly shown our different point of view on how much a government should manage peoples lives ?‍♂️

[Archied]

50 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I just want to see a fairer deal for all workers. It seems unfair that some prosper and others struggle perpetually. I don't think it's jealousy. 

You see I’m right there with you on that but got panned when I made it very clear my view is nurses are not a special case 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

You can easily say it's not fair we don't get index linked pensions or all the benefits that public sector workers get. People in the public sector are actually on average better off than people in the private sector.  

I get what you say about the very rich but contrary to all the stuff about non doms and offshore accounts and all that I think they do pay a fair whack overall. 

 

When the government reviewed the average salary based on regional pay in the same sector across regions for there 2013 pay negotiation -this is for office work rather than nurses,  the average salary for the same types of work was about 4 k higher in the private sector for the East Midlands.  The same independent review also deemed the work pension age should remain at 60 for retirement point.  Surprisingly, they ignored it, increased the work pension age to 67, tripled the contribution and made it career average instead of final salary.   As an addition the government decided that the non contracted out  pension element of National Insurance needed to be paid back.  Effectively, if you worked all you life as a civil servant you'll need to work 3 years longer to get the basic state pension.   The only perk if you can call it that is that your likely to have 2 years pre notice of any office closure.  Good job as the loss of jobs over 10 years is an epidemic with the nearest regional office normally Plymouth to Bristol or equally ridiculous. 

I'm sure everyone swallowed the rhetoric of loads of idle civil servants in bowler hats getting gold plated pensions, 50k salaries and every Friday in the pub when the government started the hatchet job.  Now there's 30'000 less people actually doing this work i imagine the loss to the exchequer runs into billions in unchecked tax returns, unfiled documents etc. The litmus test is how easy it is to get through to anyone , or anyone who knows what they're doing.  Twenty years you'd get to see someone face to face and get a local office name and number.

Public sector workers are an easy option to kick, especially after 7 years of pay freezes or below inflation pay rises when others made merry in the boom years.

[Norman]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Many of those businesses are paying poverty wages, so maybe we should look into redistributing the wealth? We can afford to pay key workers a living wage if we are prepared to fund it. 

How? To both parts.

[ariotofmyown]

41 minutes ago, Archied said:

Yep you have clearly shown our different point of view on how much a government should manage peoples lives ?‍♂️

Please suggest an alternative method to provide affordable trains vs me driving. Or how the local lane to the station can have a footpath built so I can walk there. Or a bus route introduced so I can get there by pubic transport. You seem to think this is not the job government seemingly?

[Reggie Greenwood]

1 hour ago, Poynton ram said:

Just seen he has been suspended from the Tories for allegedly spreading misinformation about the covid vaccine. From memory wasn’t he very vocal about giving support to Derby during the administration and spoke well. Could be the end of his political career now I guess

The bloke who a Judge said was a serial liar in a court case he lost against his own family members 

[Archied]

21 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Please suggest an alternative method to provide affordable trains vs me driving. Or how the local lane to the station can have a footpath built so I can walk there. Or a bus route introduced so I can get there by pubic transport. You seem to think this is not the job government seemingly?

Nope , they are clearly things the government and or local government should be doing though the train thing is a bit tough now as it’s been privatised and personally I believe that vital infrastructure like railways , energy , water , health should not be in private hands so nicely back on topic the government overreach overreaction with covid in controlling peoples lives was the start/ cause of all the mess we are in and now there’ seems now no way off this destructive road ,,, in my opinion,,,,, of course you will disagree as is your right and who am I to say my view of the last few years is any more valid than yours and there’s not much point going round in circles over it 

ps can we all just note that I am replying to more than one poster so will probably and naturally post higher amounts 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Archied

[sage]

Compared the vaccine rollout to The Holocaust

Guess he wants a job on GB News