Archied Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: There’s quite a lot in the media about excess deaths . Headline news a couple of days ago. Your right it is slowly surfacing , hopefully ALL voices will start to be heard moving forward , it’s not really about being right or wrong ,,, IF there is a problem with vaccines we need to know as fast as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Archied said: Your right it is slowly surfacing , hopefully ALL voices will start to be heard moving forward , it’s not really about being right or wrong ,,, IF there is a problem with vaccines we need to know as fast as possible I don't think any of the mainstream stories suggest its anything to do with vaccines.. In fact BBC debunked that again. Lockdowns however are high on list of culprits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 The claim that none of Dr Malhotra's peers are contesting his claims is blown out of the water here. There's a view that he's trying to raise his profile, which his rather hysterical tweets do support. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/13/bbc-cardiologist-aseem-malhotra-links-covid-jabs-to-heart-disease-deaths?CMP=twt_gu&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium#Echobox=1673632315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Crewton said: The claim that none of Dr Malhotra's peers are contesting his claims is blown out of the water here. There's a view that he's trying to raise his profile, which his rather hysterical tweets do support. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/13/bbc-cardiologist-aseem-malhotra-links-covid-jabs-to-heart-disease-deaths?CMP=twt_gu&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium#Echobox=1673632315 Where is this claim that NONE of his peers contest his CONCERNS?, from what I can see some share his concerns and many don’t , strange that anyone who differs from your view is either not qualified , qualified but lost the plot or a grifter trying to raise they’re own profile ,, funny you didn’t come out and accuse him of being a grifter raising his own profile when he was on tv as part of the campaign promoting the vaccines , why is that? What’s changed ? Perhaps he no longer supports your view ? can we come out for a kick about next Christmas Edited January 14, 2023 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Archied said: Where is this claim that NONE of his peers contest his CONCERNS?, from what I can see some share his concerns and many don’t , strange that anyone who differs from your view is either not qualified , qualified but lost the plot or a grifter trying to raise they’re own profile ,, funny you didn’t come out and accuse him of being a grifter raising his own profile when he was on tv as part of the campaign promoting the vaccines , why is that? What’s changed ? Perhaps he no longer supports your view ? can we come out for a kick about next Christmas It's a claim used by many who support his views. WHEN HE PUBLISHES SOME CLEAR EVIDENCE I might change my view of him and his claims. I'd never heard of him before this current campaign of his was amplified by Bridgen, hence its not "funny" that I've not mentioned him before. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Archied said: Where is this claim that NONE of his peers contest his CONCERNS?, from what I can see some share his concerns and many don’t , strange that anyone who differs from your view is either not qualified , qualified but lost the plot or a grifter trying to raise they’re own profile ,, funny you didn’t come out and accuse him of being a grifter raising his own profile when he was on tv as part of the campaign promoting the vaccines , why is that? What’s changed ? Perhaps he no longer supports your view ? can we come out for a kick about next Christmas Its all just hyperbole of the highest order and something that you should be used to by now surely? Find literally anything to discredit the experts that disagree with you and just exagerrate it. Archied and Norman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Crewton said: It's a claim used by many who support his views. WHEN HE PUBLISHES SOME CLEAR EVIDENCE I might change my view of him and his claims. I'd never heard of him before this current campaign of his was amplified by Bridgen, hence its not "funny" that I've not mentioned him before. HTH Where have you seen this claim ? By whom and can you point me / us to with a link or article to support this claim YOU make ? Or is it just something you’ve made up again and posted as fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 17 minutes ago, Crewton said: It's a claim used by many who support his views. WHEN HE PUBLISHES SOME CLEAR EVIDENCE I might change my view of him and his claims. I'd never heard of him before this current campaign of his was amplified by Bridgen, hence its not "funny" that I've not mentioned him before. HTH So out of interest, have his peers, that you choose to believe, published lots of clear evidence to show that his claims are incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Its all just hyperbole of the highest order and something that you should be used to by now surely? Find literally anything to discredit the experts that disagree with you and just exagerrate it. I know I should be used to it by now and kind of am but there’s still a bit where it’s shocking and funny in equal measure how people throw this stuff out ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 33 minutes ago, Crewton said: It's a claim used by many who support his views. WHEN HE PUBLISHES SOME CLEAR EVIDENCE I might change my view of him and his claims. I'd never heard of him before this current campaign of his was amplified by Bridgen, hence its not "funny" that I've not mentioned him before. HTH so now you have heard of him is his early support of covid vaccines to be discounted and of no value , as you have pointed out he’s a grifter raising his profile? Given his profile and standing is high enough for him to have been used on tv to promote the vaccine used again to be interviewed on statins where as you say he shoehorned his concerns on vaccine as a heart consultant now they have been in mass use why would he need to expose himself to the abuse he will now get not only from people like you ? Makes no sense ??♂️ Andrew3000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.32L483D Feel free to post links to peer-reviewed research from non-discredited sources that support his claims. So far as I can tell, he hasn't done so yet. If there truly is something to be concerned about, I want to know so I can make an informed decision about future vaccinations. At the moment though all I've seen is people claiming that statements are proof - they aren't and I ain't buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Archied said: so now you have heard of him is his early support of covid vaccines to be discounted and of no value , as you have pointed out he’s a grifter raising his profile? Given his profile and standing is high enough for him to have been used on tv to promote the vaccine used again to be interviewed on statins where as you say he shoehorned his concerns on vaccine as a heart consultant now they have been in mass use why would he need to expose himself to the abuse he will now get not only from people like you ? Makes no sense ??♂️ My guess is he feels guilty, as if he's to blame for his Dad's death (he persuaded his reluctant Father to have the Pfizer vaccine and his Dad later died of heart failure). He's blaming the vaccine without conclusive proof as far as I can see and he's vowed to get "justice" for his Dad. It's become his obsession, it seems, and he's scraping the barrel with some of the people he's using to justify his claims. BTW, you don't have to read my posts if you find them objectionable, stick me on ignore I don't GAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 42 minutes ago, Crewton said: My guess is he feels guilty, as if he's to blame for his Dad's death (he persuaded his reluctant Father to have the Pfizer vaccine and his Dad later died of heart failure). He's blaming the vaccine without conclusive proof as far as I can see and he's vowed to get "justice" for his Dad. It's become his obsession, it seems, and he's scraping the barrel with some of the people he's using to justify his claims. BTW, you don't have to read my posts if you find them objectionable, stick me on ignore I don't GAF. So guesswork then , any movement on the showing us the facts that you claim, im ok to read your posts , if your posting what’s now become known these days as misinformation then I will post as much , happy for you to do the same to mine , I have never put anybody on ignore , you may have noticed that I tend to disagree with certain posters views on here quite often but maybe you’ve not noticed that with every one of those I’m still able to agree with them also at times and am just as quick to post my agreement with they’re view ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Found this quote from 8 years ago. Don't know the guy but it cropped up in my feed Pretty funny - and very true Quote Give the doctors whatever they want. Give them a helicopter each I don't care. You pay them whatever you can because I want them to be interested in their job, I want them to skip into work and enjoy every f-ing second. When some doctor has his hand in my chest I don't want him to think "oh man I hope I can get this done quickly, I'm so tired and I don't get paid enough for this sh*t" I want him to be like "if I do this right I can finally get that helicopter I've always wanted" they train for decades to be able to do it and damn straight they should get paid what they deserve I COULDN'T DO IT! I can't be like "f- them and their desire to get paid what they should be paid! This should be about love not money!" then try and reconnect my own aorta to the main arteries in my body OH DAMN I'M DEAD At the same time pay nurses, any NHS or medical staff, teachers and anyone else that does something completely vital, properly. Pay them and treat them well. You can get the money out of the MPs' moat fund. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Found this quote from 8 years ago. Don't know the guy but it cropped up in my feed Pretty funny - and very true Well none of us can live without shop workers, lets pay them what they want too surely? Checkout attendants at petrol stations, break the bank for them. Waitresses and barmaids...how much do you want? At the end of the day nurses know what the pay is when they take the job, whether that is enough or not is more than open to debate. sheeponacid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 16 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Well none of us can live without shop workers, lets pay them what they want too surely? Checkout attendants at petrol stations, break the bank for them. Waitresses and barmaids...how much do you want? At the end of the day nurses know what the pay is when they take the job, whether that is enough or not is more than open to debate. I think you completely missed the point, as all the jobs you list are low skilled and could be filled by anyone with minimal training Don't be in such a rush to start an argument. That's my new year resolution..join me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 16 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: At the end of the day nurses know what the pay is when they take the job, whether that is enough or not is more than open to debate. Sure, but they don't expect it to go down in real terms year by year. Whatever your pov is about Nurses' (and Doctors') pay, the reality is there's a shortage now and it'll only get worse if the government carry on like they are at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 hours ago, Crewton said: Sure, but they don't expect it to go down in real terms year by year. Whatever your pov is about Nurses' (and Doctors') pay, the reality is there's a shortage now and it'll only get worse if the government carry on like they are at the moment. A shortage of nurses but NHS employment at very high levels. Maybe if the top levels were streamlined there would be more funds available to give the nurses payrises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: A shortage of nurses but NHS employment at very high levels. Maybe if the top levels were streamlined there would be more funds available to give the nurses payrises? Ah, that old chestnut. Quote Key points NHS managers make up circa 2 per cent of the workforce compared to 9.5 cent of the UK workforce. In recent years the number of managers has been cut, at a time when the NHS is facing its biggest challenge. The NHS as a whole is under, not over, managed. However, persistent and misleading media headlines continue to claim that the NHS is overmanaged. https://www.nhsconfed.org/long-reads/nhs-overmanaged There's quite a few other studies from the likes of the Nuffield Trust and the King's Fund that you can seek out to check what the NHS Confederation are saying. There may well be ways in which the whole shebang could be run more efficiently, but by how much, how many managers and support staff (infrastructure, technical support, administration et al, et al) could be "rationalised" I really couldn't say. Pretty much every Government since the NHS was established has claimed that it could be run more efficiently, and many of them have tried to implement major re-organisations, but few of those have truly made things better. One thing that seems unlikely is that there aren't the savings to be made from "culling management" to pay for a decent pay rise for Nurses, Care Workers, Ambulance Staff etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 3 hours ago, Crewton said: One thing that seems unlikely is that there aren't the savings to be made from "culling management" to pay for a decent pay rise for Nurses, Care Workers, Ambulance Staff etc Ah that old chestnut... I've already pointed out the £40m spent on 800 diversity officers as the sort of area where resources would be better spent elsewhere. Did you miss that one? Archied 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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