The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Stive Pesley]

12 hours ago, i-Ram said:

To be honest I haven’t. I have been pretty fortunate to date with my health, but to be fair to myself I have always tried to eat healthily and exercise. Not ever taken a drug stronger than paracetamol nor have I ever smoked. Alcohol consumption would be on my charge sheet. However, at 61, some point relatively soon I will surely need to rely on the NHS. I have no private health cover. Scares the s*** out of me really, as I have two close family members who work in the service who regularly report back to me the mess the service is in.

You're describing me - exactly, although I only made it to 51 before I finally had something wrong with me that required urgent intervention from the NHS surgical team

My experience has been far worse than I could have imagined, and although I'm still here (unfortunately for some of you ?) I don't feel like I can rely on the NHS any more

Seeing the BBC article today about the poor guy who died of a heart attack because the ambulance didn't arrive is also tough, because 5 years ago my Dad had a heart attack and the paramedics arrived just in the nick of time to save him. I've no doubt that he'd be dead if that'd happened to him now

 

 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

You seem to be confusing past sub-optimal rules during a global pandemic with the government now intruding in every area of our lives.

I agree with you on nationalisation, but surley that is also the government taking more control of our lives? 

To improve the health of the nation, I think the government should play a much larger role in regulating junk food and reducing the amount of alcohol that is shoved in your face (it used to be in the last row of the supermarket, now it's on every aisle, checkout etc). Similar with the steps taken for smoking. You are still free to do it, it's just in your face if you want to avoid it.

I imagine you would probably agree with this, but this would surely also be large scale state intervention into our private lives too?

There’s parts where I semi agree with you but there’s large areas where I’m conflicted, it’s very much like the free speech issue of where’s the line,

I certainly don’t see the what I consider sensible issue of vital infrastructure being in public hands as interfering in people s live s

i think the biggest problem I have on here is that I have very mixed views that don’t really put me in either the box of left wing or right wing and as such people don’t really get me and think if I think something on one issue I will naturally think a certain way on other stuff,

shemema began,,, totally conflicted 

boats landing in Dover , I’m not distracted or obsessed by it , it’s a tiny fraction of legal immigration numbers over the last few years , 

immigration in general , well we have to have some ,

we will never agree on the covid policies though, that’s clear

its also clear I see the covid policies as disastrous to our country in so so many areas and the net zero timescale madness is another huge threat to ordinary people in this country ?‍♂️

Edited January 12, 2023 by Archied

[Ram-Alf]

35 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

You're describing me - exactly, although I only made it to 51 before I finally had something wrong with me that required urgent intervention from the NHS surgical team

My experience has been far worse than I could have imagined, and although I'm still here (unfortunately for some of you ?) I don't feel like I can rely on the NHS any more

Seeing the BBC article today about the poor guy who died of a heart attack because the ambulance didn't arrive is also tough, because 5 years ago my Dad had a heart attack and the paramedics arrived just in the nick of time to save him. I've no doubt that he'd be dead if that'd happened to him now

 

 

As a child 8-9 and 10 I'd climb trees and fall out of em, I had my own bed in the Childrens Hospital ? near the 5 Lamps Pub, Legs and arms broken, When getting older I've had Cataracts in both eyes, Collarbone twice, Cartilage all fixed by the NHS, Developed Sciatica some 2+ weeks ago Got to a call back that afternoon from the Doctor, Last week had a Doctors appointment, In there some 20mins now on strong painkillers, Yesterday I had a blood test as my blood pressure is up and down...now waiting for results, The NHS score 10 out of 10 for me    

[uttoxram75]

Re Andrew Bridgen's suspension, last nights national news seemed to be all about anti-semitism rather than why a Consultant Cardiologist would say such a thing about vaccines.

Personally I would rather hear the consultants reasons for saying such a thing. It takes around 15 years to become a consultant so we can reasonably assume he has a reason to believe what he does.

If he didn't want to explain himself maybe other equally qualified experts could discuss why he might think that, if all's well then open and honest debate would soon quell any concerns about the vaccine.

[Stive Pesley]

12 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Re Andrew Bridgen's suspension, last nights national news seemed to be all about anti-semitism rather than why a Consultant Cardiologist would say such a thing about vaccines.

Personally I would rather hear the consultants reasons for saying such a thing. It takes around 15 years to become a consultant so we can reasonably assume he has a reason to believe what he does.

If he didn't want to explain himself maybe other equally qualified experts could discuss why he might think that, if all's well then open and honest debate would soon quell any concerns about the vaccine.

Has the consultant cardiologist been named now? My initial impression of the tweet was that he was just framing the view as "someone else said this" so as to try and avoid saying first hand what he actually thinks (aka he's a coward). 

The BBC (FWIW) did a reasonably fair fact-check of the situation. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64237949

 

 

[Archied]

11 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Re Andrew Bridgen's suspension, last nights national news seemed to be all about anti-semitism rather than why a Consultant Cardiologist would say such a thing about vaccines.

Personally I would rather hear the consultants reasons for saying such a thing. It takes around 15 years to become a consultant so we can reasonably assume he has a reason to believe what he does.

If he didn't want to explain himself maybe other equally qualified experts could discuss why he might think that, if all's well then open and honest debate would soon quell any concerns about the vaccine.

That’s pretty much my feelings having dug a bit on the report and Bridgen s recent history in parliament re trying to get recognition and better treatment for those that have been harmed or died as a result of the vaccine,

it does concern me that even now there is no real drive to honest open debate re all that was /is covid

as I’ve stated I don’t believe there are massive numbers but certainly enough to warrant proper investigation,

can’t for the life of me see how this is anti Semitic and it really is time this rush to ism accusations to shut people up needs to stop

[Crewton]

There seems to be a concerted effort ongoing on social media by certain parties, who Bridgen also quotes and amplifies repeatedly,  to make claims that there is overwhelming evidence that mRNA vaccines are "killing millions", without any conclusive evidence being presented for scrutiny, in an effort to have those vaccines withdrawn. AZ is routinely bracketed in such criticisms even though it's not a mRNA vaccine. Many such people are not random libertarian nutjobs - they have a veneer of authority and respectability (see Bridgen for example). Vaccine harm reports in both the UK and US are being used as part of that "overwhelming evidence" without it being pointed out that the authorities in both countries are slow to follow up on those reports and slow to correct the statistics when they are shown to be false or erroneous.

This will continue until and unless the authorities address the anomalies and the disinformation being circulated.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Crewton

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

I'm more concerned about the story I just saw on the news that a woman who had a heart attack waited 24 hrs for an ambulance in December.  Not surprisingly she passed away.  I'm sure her husband is delighted with the service and was grateful that the 60k national insurance he's paid over 40 years meant the service was really there when he needed it. 

No point chasing a cardiologist for a statement .  They don't even get to see people who've had heart attacks it seems.  Average wait time for an ambulance 1hr 50 mins if you've had a probable stroke.  Think Stroke everybody.

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, The Last Post said:

As a child 8-9 and 10 I'd climb trees and fall out of em, I had my own bed in the Childrens Hospital ? near the 5 Lamps Pub, Legs and arms broken, When getting older I've had Cataracts in both eyes, Collarbone twice, Cartilage all fixed by the NHS, Developed Sciatica some 2+ weeks ago Got to a call back that afternoon from the Doctor, Last week had a Doctors appointment, In there some 20mins now on strong painkillers, Yesterday I had a blood test as my blood pressure is up and down...now waiting for results, The NHS score 10 out of 10 for me    

That's great. I hope your results are good and that you get them in a timely manner. I was happy like you until the point where I got a bad result, and they started talking about surgery and a week in hospital. It wasn't the procedure itself that was so bad. I was lucky that the op was (touch wood) successful but the fact I had to wait an excruciating 7 weeks to find out if the biopsy results said cancer or not was just mentally horrific. The problems were all around communication. The consultant and the GP managed to mess up my prescription so I didn't get the drugs that might have helped me recover more successfully, and by the time they realised it was too late post-op for me to have it anyway. Also the care over the weekends in hospital was awful. Suddenly it was a new shift of agency staff who didn't give a crap and just referred any issues to the one surgical consultant who was covering all 700 beds on their own. Then on Monday it all want back to normal again

The majority of the care I got was from a lovely student nurse, who had been put on placement in Derby, even though she lived the other side of Nottingham. This was when petrol prices were nearly £2 a litre. She was having to drive back and forth every day and then pay for her parking. Obviously being a student she wasn't being paid for the 12 hour shift she was putting in. She ended up in tears worrying about how she had only had pot noodles for tea. It's just all wrong. Then we wonder why we have staff shortages

[Stive Pesley]

8 minutes ago, Archied said:

as I’ve stated I don’t believe there are massive numbers but certainly enough to warrant proper investigation,

There is https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/

[Stive Pesley]

7 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Vaccine harm reports in both the UK and US are being used as part of that "overwhelming evidence" without it being pointed out that the authorities in both countries are slow to follow up on those reports and slow to correct the statistics when they are shown to be false or erroneous.

This will continue until and unless the authorities address the anomalies and the disinformation being circulated.

There is no winning though is there? Any attempts to police the misinformation just sows further distrust and gets weaponised as "further proof" that "you aren't allowed to question the narrative" 

I don't know what the answer is, other than to just disengage from the news/media altogether. I'm at the point where I listen to both sides and don't believe either of them

[Crewton]

31 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

There is no winning though is there? Any attempts to police the misinformation just sows further distrust and gets weaponised as "further proof" that "you aren't allowed to question the narrative" 

I don't know what the answer is, other than to just disengage from the news/media altogether. I'm at the point where I listen to both sides and don't believe either of them

You're right of course - the misinformation, memes, bots and conspiracy theories will continue regardless. All we can hope for is that those prominent people who persist with whatever game it is they are playing, in the event that a proper investigation and inquiry shows the claims to be exaggerated or false, are utterly discredited and shamed into silence.

If they are proved right of course, they'll be able to name their price and the actions of others will be subject to scrutiny and more, but it's not the outcome I'm expecting.

[Ram-Alf]

41 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

That's great. I hope your results are good and that you get them in a timely manner. I was happy like you until the point where I got a bad result, and they started talking about surgery and a week in hospital. It wasn't the procedure itself that was so bad. I was lucky that the op was (touch wood) successful but the fact I had to wait an excruciating 7 weeks to find out if the biopsy results said cancer or not was just mentally horrific. The problems were all around communication. The consultant and the GP managed to mess up my prescription so I didn't get the drugs that might have helped me recover more successfully, and by the time they realised it was too late post-op for me to have it anyway. Also the care over the weekends in hospital was awful. Suddenly it was a new shift of agency staff who didn't give a crap and just referred any issues to the one surgical consultant who was covering all 700 beds on their own. Then on Monday it all want back to normal again

The majority of the care I got was from a lovely student nurse, who had been put on placement in Derby, even though she lived the other side of Nottingham. This was when petrol prices were nearly £2 a litre. She was having to drive back and forth every day and then pay for her parking. Obviously being a student she wasn't being paid for the 12 hour shift she was putting in. She ended up in tears worrying about how she had only had pot noodles for tea. It's just all wrong. Then we wonder why we have staff shortages

I just wished I had a magic wand...unfortunately they don't exist, Debate today on the politics show concerning how many GPS there are and how many nurses there are, Tory and Labour MPs disagree with each others response, Tory MP...more GPs and Nurses now than when under Labour, Labour MP said and I agree with her...our population has outgrown the NHS for today, In 2010 it was 63,459,801...in 2022 it's  67,829,000...almost 4.5million extra people that could use the NHS, And has been said NHS personnel are leaving in their 1000s.

As for Bridgens comments all 4 panellists agreed there needs to be an open debate with out being shut down by the left or right  

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

There is no winning though is there? Any attempts to police the misinformation just sows further distrust and gets weaponised as "further proof" that "you aren't allowed to question the narrative" 

I don't know what the answer is, other than to just disengage from the news/media altogether. I'm at the point where I listen to both sides and don't believe either of them

I personally believe the answer lies somewhere in the middle , as I have stated my experience of covid and what I watched unfold concerned me greatly and still does , but my experience around vaccines is very similar so I’m no more inclined to believe the extremist s around vaccine harm than I was/ am around covid extremists and the belief that policies ( including vaccinating those that clearly did not need it) are justifiable,

you point to the inquiry into covid response and I hope it is done properly but I don’t have a great deal of faith that it will and that’s not some conspiracy theory leaning it’s just seeing how these type of things generally pan out ??‍♂️

[ramit]

 

[Stive Pesley]

to be fair - it wasn't the "asking reasonable questions about vaccine harm" bit that got him suspended.

If he'd asked reasonable questions via the correct forum, then that would have been ok. Or even acknowledged that there is a public inquiry ongoing which is asking these very questions

Instead he made a stupid hyperbolic tweets invoking the holocaust, and quoting unnamed sources. 

Given that the statement tweet above has come out via the Laurence Fox Reclaim Party account, I now assume that the whole thing was a deliberate ploy to generate publicity for the cult of the outrage celebrity

 

 

 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

to be fair - it wasn't the "asking reasonable questions about vaccine harm" bit that got him suspended.

If he'd asked reasonable questions via the correct forum, then that would have been ok. Or even acknowledged that there is a public inquiry ongoing which is asking these very questions

Instead he made a stupid hyperbolic tweets invoking the holocaust, and quoting unnamed sources. 

Given that the statement tweet above has come out via the Laurence Fox Reclaim Party account, I now assume that the whole thing was a deliberate ploy to generate publicity for the cult of the outrage celebrity

 

 

 

Celebrity’s who want to be politicians,,,, politicians who want to be celebrity’s ,,,, seems to be the norm these days , why would anybody give one more respect than the other??‍♂️

[GboroRam]

Just pointing out that I don't know anyone who's died suddenly. Those people saying they don't know anyone who died of covid therefore it's overblown, does this work the same way? 

[1of4]

Re the covid vaccine, Andrew Bridgen and apparently an Israeli doctor call the dispensing of the vaccine, as the worst crime to humanity since the murder of millions during the holocaust. Whatever your view on wether this statement is or isn't antisemitic.

What we should be asking is what verified medical evidence is available for them to make this claim that countries around the world have deliberately murdered their own citizens.

Isn't this another example of a group of people using unfounded evidence to  push their own agenda 

[uttoxram75]

4 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Re the covid vaccine, Andrew Bridgen and apparently an Israeli doctor call the dispensing of the vaccine, as the worst crime to humanity since the murder of millions during the holocaust. Whatever your view on wether this statement is or isn't antisemitic.

What we should be asking is what verified medical evidence is available for them to make this claim that countries around the world have deliberately murdered their own citizens.

Isn't this another example of a group of people using unfounded evidence to  push their own agenda 

If, as thought by some, the mRNA vaccines are causing immune issues, then it will eventually come out. It always does.

I just hope and pray that all the people who are concerned are wrong.

I think we are all a bit sceptical about the news we watch and read everyday. We all know that vested interests have some control over the spin how news is presented.

People need to talk more and share their own experiences with colleagues, family, friends etc. and listen and evaluate real life occurrences.

I have close family and friends who have had issues within a short time of receiving their covid vaccinations. Thyroid and Shingles issues have suddenly erupted from nowhere and caused people to have time off work. These were after their 2nd jab, they did not have any boosters after that. I know 3 people who died not long after vaccinations but they had major health problems before covid so were vulnerable anyway and may well have been struggling regardless.

Colleagues had blood clots soon after vaccination, rushed to hospital, very serious for a few days or weeks in some cases.

I have two close friends, one a Rams ST holder who I sit with and have known for nearly 40 years, who have been diagnosed with incurable cancers, doctors have told them they don't know why the aggressive cancers have sprung up so quickly, both have taken all the vaccinations.

Maybe because I work in a factory with 500 employees and they have tales to tell about their partners and families who work at JCB and a myriad of other large places in the area I hear loads of stuff that makes me think.

I know its all anecdotal and most people I know think I'm wrong for not having had a Covid vaccine, including close family and friends, but I am witnessing many fully vaccinated people struggling with chest infections that they cant shake off, immune system illnesses and the like.

I assume that the vast majority of those vaccinated are sound and healthy with no side effects, I certainly hope so.