New Manager

[brady1993]

3 minutes ago, WilkoRam said:

Every appointment is a gamble. Nobody has a crystal ball that’s able to say which appointment will work and which one wouldn’t. 
 

Fans churn out McCarthy, Warnock, etc time and time again but despite a promotion they don’t leave the club in a better position. They go up, they exhibit the same “battling” qualities that got them promoted and end up fighting relegation and ultimately coming back down. 
 

Our last unproven manager now manages Chelsea and got them to qualify for CL. Previous “proven” managers we appointed such as Pearson and Jewell didn’t exactly work out well. 
 

Ultimately whoever we appoint, should we change manager, will be a gamble and I’d prefer to take a gamble on a young manager who may be able to do more than have us follow the same route as the other clubs managed by those who “know the league”

The argument that every appointment is a gamble is reductive. It's technically true but overlooks probability.

Betting with 4 aces in poker is a gamble but you have far better odds than a coin toss. John Terry would be a coin toss with the house bet on it. There are zero guarentees but there is higher likelihoods with some over others. There are certain managers out there who are experienced I'd be less likely to want than Terry for the exact reason that they would be less likely to succeed.

Plus you've completely neglected the point that now of all times is a bad time to appoint someone with zero experience, they would zero slack at a time they need it the most.

I largely agree about McCarthy and Warnock and to be honest I wouldn't go for your typical championship pragmatist. Although many will make the argument that we just need a safe pair of hands to put us on level footing again. 

Pearson, whilst I didn't expect to be as bad as he was, was fairly predictabley not the right direction.

Personally I would bank on someone who had an established playing style that would suit the current squad and had previously got players playing more freely, with confidence. Jokanovic being the first choice I'd probably go for; with consideration for possibly Wassall, Mac3 and Adkins (with others I'm probably forgetting).

Honestly if you want to gamble on an upcoming coach with no experience, I'd be more likely to put money on Pat Lyons.....

[Rab a dab doo]

There will be sacks full of applications from ex-managers,ex-players, would be managers, want to be managers, tv pundits, people about to get the sack , players wanting to retire you name it they'll be the whole spectrum.

They'll be no problem with quantity its the quality we need.

With quality however (most of the time) comes certain potential 'problems/requirements'.

Just some of the following being:

1. They'll want a 'big' salary not just for them but for there whole team they bring together with a 'good' long contract lengths.

2. Complete control of all footballing matters with no boardroom interference.

3. A large transfer war chest will be a 'necessity'.

With big managers come big ego's, so feathers will be ruffled, we may possibly at times not feature in the press and tv for all the right reasons.

The One thing which would be grantaneed is that the excitement and anticipation amongst us fans would return again.   

 

[Ramley Apple]

4 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

The grass isn't always greener. I like Cocu enormously and if he were able to catch a break I can genuinely see him taking the team from strength to strength. We might look back on this international break like the time Fergie was going to be sacked at Man Yoo until he beat the Gumps through Mark Robbins in that FA Cup game, and say "imagine if we'd got rid of Cocu".

All the names being bandied around fill me with dread and despair. I understand things are miserable at the moment, but I'd say to people, "be careful what you wish for". With Philip Cocu the window is still open to a bright future where we bring through our academy kids and achieve long-term, stable, footballing success. Bring any other manager in and we're back to same old, same old, gambling our recruitment department is going to unearth the players to lead us into the Premier League.

#CocuIn

This is kind of how I feel. I look at some of the names being suggested and they don't exactly thrill me.

But at the same time things have been dire and if we continue to slip further into the mire then I don't think we'll have any choice but to replace him.

Like I said I think the best thing would be for this takeover to go through soon as and reassess then.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

If the takeover doesn't happen I fully expect Phillip Cocu to carry on.

[Gaspode]

7 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

If the takeover doesn't happen I fully expect Phillip Cocu to carry on.

Carry On Cocu you say?

[Rev]

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I present to you the next Jim Smith...

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

39 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

The argument that every appointment is a gamble is reductive. It's technically true but overlooks probability.

Betting with 4 aces in poker is a gamble but you have far better odds than a coin toss. John Terry would be a coin toss with the house bet on it. There are zero guarentees but there is higher likelihoods with some over others. There are certain managers out there who are experienced I'd be less likely to want than Terry for the exact reason that they would be less likely to succeed.

Plus you've completely neglected the point that now of all times is a bad time to appoint someone with zero experience, they would zero slack at a time they need it the most.

I largely agree about McCarthy and Warnock and to be honest I wouldn't go for your typical championship pragmatist. Although many will make the argument that we just need a safe pair of hands to put us on level footing again. 

Pearson, whilst I didn't expect to be as bad as he was, was fairly predictabley not the right direction.

Personally I would bank on someone who had an established playing style that would suit the current squad and had previously got players playing more freely, with confidence. Jokanovic being the first choice I'd probably go for; with consideration for possibly Wassall, Mac3 and Adkins (with others I'm probably forgetting).

Honestly if you want to gamble on an upcoming coach with no experience, I'd be more likely to put money on Pat Lyons.....

Good post. 

I was thinking, as bad a choice as Nigel Pearson was for that squad, at that point in time, he might actually not be a bad appointment in the current situation - we've not got a number 9 but I could imagine him liking Byrne and Buchannan, Knight's energy, playing a front 2 with Waghorn and Jozwiak (or one of the young strikers). OK, style wise it'd be a complete 180 and I couldn't see a place for Rooney in his style of team - It'll never happen after the way things panned out when he was here, but was more musing on how "right man at the right time" plays such a factor in these decisions.

I could see either Mac3 or Wassall picking things up but don't feel like that's the way the club will go. 

Whatever they do, I just hope it works.

[Anag Ram]

13 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

Carry On Cocu you say?

It does have a ring to it. 

[IslandExile]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Mwah! ? It's getting bad innit. I just want to see some exciting and/OR successful football (well, successful really). To think there's fans thinking how lucky we were to be able to sign Colin! ? 

My original response seems to have disappeared.

I said something along the lines of....

I am less bothered about "success" these days if that means getting promoted to the Premier League only to be cannon fodder for the top teams. The sooner the "big six" or whatever they like to call themselves clear off to some "super duper european league" the better for me. The Championship is much more competitive - and interesting as a consequence.

Of course, if the new ownership brings money that allows us to compete at the top of the Premier League, or we manage the Sky money well, then of course I would be saying "there's no other place to be" ?

Otherwise, at this stage of my life, I would be happy just to watch exciting, attacking football.

I know that you and others think otherwise, but I believe we have seen glimpses of that under Cocu. Unfortunately, whatever the reason, we have not seen enough of it.

Hopefully, we will see it soon, whoever is in charge.

[Ramfan1958]

1 hour ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

If the takeover doesn't happen I fully expect Phillip Cocu to carry on.

I pray to God the takeover takes place how anyone could want Cocu to stay isn't a Derby fan .

 

Worse manager for along time results don't lie !!

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

John Terry wouldn’t be a bad appointment, been working with Dean Smith for a few of years now- Villa look class, Dean Smith speaks very highly of him, certainly has better credentials than Lampard did, my only complaint would be I think he’s a bit of a nob.

He’s a big Marriott fan too

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I know that you and others think otherwise, but I believe we have seen glimpses of that under Cocu. Unfortunately, whatever the reason, we have not seen enough of it.

I agree we have seen glimpses under Cocu, but I think that is more down to 'luck' than judgement. Oh and having a good hold-up striker. I realise that Cocu isn't a typical Championship manager (whatever that is really), but I'd have been more inclined to believe it was judgement than luck if he'd made more of 1st not keeping and then 2nd not replacing a hold-up striker. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

John Terry wouldn’t be a bad appointment, been working with Dean Smith for a few of years now- Villa look class, Dean Smith speaks very highly of him, certainly has better credentials than Lampard did, my only complaint would be I think he’s a bit of a nob.

He said such nice things about you ? But it would an interesting choice.

[Red_Dawn]

Only one man for the job 

[Abu Derby]

3 hours ago, Shang said:

Isn't he also impossible to get a hold of? Last I heard he believes there's a media conspiracy against him and he's shut himself off from the world. Proper suspicious of anybody and everybody.

Last seen in a circus act pre Covid-19 being utilised as a human cannonball several times over. 
Unfinished business apparently. 

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

I agree we have seen glimpses under Cocu, but I think that is more down to 'luck' than judgement. Oh and having a good hold-up striker. I realise that Cocu isn't a typical Championship manager (whatever that is really), but I'd have been more inclined to believe it was judgement than luck if he'd made more of 1st not keeping and then 2nd not replacing a hold-up striker. 

We don't know how much of that (hold up forward issue) was under his control.

At the very least, he will have been given a limited budget. At the very worst, the higher powers may have stopped Martin's contract being renewed.

Pure speculation but Martin may have wanted to leave the area for reasons other than the contract on offer - someone alluded to his marriage but I do not want to go further about that.

As for the replacement, after the embargo was listed, it seemed we would get Dursan. The English based alternatives all seemed overpriced.

I do not believe for a minute Kazim-Richards was Cocu's first choice. I have seen you and others say on other threads we should play JHI, Stretton or Whittaker. I would agree with that if we were playing better. I think the general consensus is that you can damage a kid's confidence by throwing them into a struggling team. That's why I think Cocu has gone against his own principles and has been playing more of the old guard.

I have said in another thread, that anyone wanting a firefighter manager like Allardyce, McCarthy or - heaven forbid - Pullis to come in, should not expect to see anywhere near the number of youngsters that Cocu has brought in and nurtured.

[The_Sheriff]

Big Sam’s barmy army

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

We don't know how much of that (hold up forward issue) was under his control.

...should not expect to see anywhere near the number of youngsters that Cocu has brought in and nurtured.

I was talking about the fact he's not said anything about not getting Martin or anyone else to sign. I would have expected a bit more anger, but it's not his style though.

Where are they? Nurtured, hmmm; played yes.

[ariotofmyown]

If we do get a new manager, they MUST be a former player or former manager. Or related to one.

It always works, honest.

[Dean Saunder’s hat trick]

4 hours ago, WilkoRam said:

What’s the issue people have with Terry as manager?

Peopl have asked for a manager who can handle players with ego - I bet he can. He won’t suffer fools that’s for sure. 
He’s spent time learning the ropes at Villa, he has the same playing background as Lampard and I’d much prefer giving him a shot than closing that door by recruiting the same old managers which is blocking the path of young managers. 

That may be, but I’m not sure giving the job to someone with zero managerial experience is what we need in our current situation.