Coronavirus

[Ghost of Clough]

13 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

I'm a teacher and agree with this statement. The problem is what are the measures in place? 

Headteachers, and their senior leadership teams, throughout the land are trying to get their heads around how pupils can return to school and it be as safe as possible. I don't envy them in this task as the stakes are so high if they make the wrong call. For many the issue I think is the date of 1st June. No headteacher, in their right mind, is going to want to open their school to more pupils until they are sure they've done everything they can to ensure there are measures in place to make it as safe as possible.

I back my headteacher to decide on when is the right time. She will take her time and consult widely before more pupils are allowed back.

Those showing symptoms to remain at home until tested negative. 
Wearing face masks when possible (I don’t think this one is actually recommended). 
Students to queue up outside the classroom 2m apart, entering 1 by 1 whilst always maintaining that minimum distance. 
Use of hand sanitizer immediately after entering a room. 
Seats to be at least 2m apart (class sizes reduced as a result). Teach outdoors if possible. 
Staggered start/class/break/lunch times to limit interaction with students outside of that one particular class. 
Regularly cleaning tables and other work surfaces. 
Some subjects such as PE to not be taught

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Both very good questions but rather than just looking at who which is just about finding a culprit (and i don't know the answer I must say) what I would be interested in is why there was an issue with the 2 points you raise.

Definitely things that need answering.

Regarding sending patients out, did the NHS panic due to all the scare stories?

Did they jump the gun? 

Should they have waited while the Government got the Nightingale hospitals in place?

Regarding PPE, pure and simple we just did not have the stockpiles.

Was this because of Government cuts or just poor procurement.

I have seen it said that there was plenty of PPE available that was just not getting sent to the right places, so was it a logistics problem as well that accentuated the problem?

[ariotofmyown]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Those showing symptoms to remain at home until tested negative. 
Wearing face masks when possible (I don’t think this one is actually recommended). 
Students to queue up outside the classroom 2m apart, entering 1 by 1 whilst always maintaining that minimum distance. 
Use of hand sanitizer immediately after entering a room. 
Seats to be at least 2m apart (class sizes reduced as a result). Teach outdoors if possible. 
Staggered start/class/break/lunch times to limit interaction with students outside of that one particular class. 
Regularly cleaning tables and other work surfaces. 
Some subjects such as PE to not be taught

PPE taught instead of PE. We'll have a nation of leaders soon.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

5 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Well, only 30-odd people turned up to the UK Mass Gathering in Wollaton Park yesterday organized by the UK Freedom Movement (whoever they are). That is very encouraging. I thought there would be a few hundred at least.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/public-react-after-protesters-breach-4139611

 

Anybody sang to them "Is that all you take away ?" or "You must have come in a taxi!"

From the picture it almost looks like they are socially distancing, well done!

 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Anybody sang to them "Is that all you take away ?" or "You must have come in a taxi!"

From the picture it almost looks like they are socially distancing, well done!

 

Surely "you must have come on public transport" to these rebels?

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Another approach is to not open schools again until September. Hard to see what potential benefits there are to opening schools for 2 years for 6 weeks vs the risks of ramping up infections again when they seem to be dropping. Perhaps it's just a test to see what happens?

No evidence that in all the countries in Europe who have opened up schools the infections have ramped up. Please can you explain what evidence you have that suggests this will happen?

My (5-year old) daughter will have missed six months of school if she doesn’t go back for those seven weeks. Her social impact is huge as she doesn’t have a sibling she can play with. So no contact with anyone her age and we can see the impact already. Plus until the birth recently of our second child, my wife and I work. We found any home schooling really difficult to do. We read in the evenings and she completes maths puzzles online but that’s it.

I feel the seven weeks in school for her will be hugely beneficial over a consecutive six months of basically watching tele and doing the odd walk around the village.

 

[zaragozaram]

6 minutes ago, rammieib said:

No evidence that in all the countries in Europe who have opened up schools the infections have ramped up. Please can you explain what evidence you have that suggests this will happen?

 

I refer you to this article in today´s Guardian, using Denmark as the model

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/17/denmark-can-teach-england-safe-reopening-of-schools-covid-19

Clearly states that the R number did rise as a result of schools returning.

However the key part of the article is - 

On 13 March, the day the Cheltenham Festival drew nearly 70,000 people, Denmark closed its borders. It had ordered schools to close two days earlier, and on 17 March, it closed restaurants, bars and most shops, limiting gatherings to 10 people. So, by the time primary schools reopened, the pandemic was already under control, with 200 people being treated in intensive care with coronavirus – about 3.5 for every 100,000 citizens.

Can we honestly say we are at that point in the UK?

 

 

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, rammieib said:

No evidence that in all the countries in Europe who have opened up schools the infections have ramped up. Please can you explain what evidence you have that suggests this will happen?

My (5-year old) daughter will have missed six months of school if she doesn’t go back for those seven weeks. Her social impact is huge as she doesn’t have a sibling she can play with. So no contact with anyone her age and we can see the impact already. Plus until the birth recently of our second child, my wife and I work. We found any home schooling really difficult to do. We read in the evenings and she completes maths puzzles online but that’s it.

I feel the seven weeks in school for her will be hugely beneficial over a consecutive six months of basically watching tele and doing the odd walk around the village.

 

Fully understand buddy. FWIW, I've attached a couple of links below to some homeschooling resources which may help to add a bit of structure to the process as well as providing a more diverse set of learning tools than you have at present. 

https://uk.ixl.com/inspiration/family-learning?partner=google&campaign=9681303299&adGroup=99694700579&gclid=CjwKCAjwwYP2BRBGEiwAkoBpAqD5j27mlA6gxKzvLDanXEXKwUhjHRO30i00k_iBCr5iMT2nUS-GeRoC17IQAvD_BwE

https://home.oxfordowl.co.uk/

I'll ask my teacher buddies whether they can recommend anything and will PM you if they do.

 

[rynny]

45 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Those showing symptoms to remain at home until tested negative. 
Wearing face masks when possible (I don’t think this one is actually recommended). 
Students to queue up outside the classroom 2m apart, entering 1 by 1 whilst always maintaining that minimum distance. 
Use of hand sanitizer immediately after entering a room. 
Seats to be at least 2m apart (class sizes reduced as a result). Teach outdoors if possible. 
Staggered start/class/break/lunch times to limit interaction with students outside of that one particular class. 
Regularly cleaning tables and other work surfaces. 
Some subjects such as PE to not be taught

To add to that, when (if) my son returns on 1st June he will return for 2 days. The school are splitting all that are returning into 2 groups, one will be in school Monday and Tuesday, the school will close Wednesday to clean the whole school, then the second group will be in Thursday and Friday, with another deep clean taking place over the weekend.

My son is nearly 11 and we have given him the option to return. Me and my wife said we believe that he should, but if he doesn't want to then we wouldn't send him. He has said he wants to go back. 

[ramit]

The study has not been peer reviewed, so there's that.

 

"A team of Australian scientists has produced new evidence that the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19 is optimized for penetration into human cells rather than animal cells, undermining the theory that the virus randomly evolved in an animal subject before passing into human beings, and suggesting instead that it was developed in a laboratory."

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-virus-researchers-uncover-evidence-implying-covid-19-was-created-in-a-lab?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com&utm_campaign=8bedc33966-Covid-lab-email-4-16-2020&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-8bedc33966-405944361

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Well, only 30-odd people turned up to the UK Mass Gathering in Wollaton Park yesterday organized by the UK Freedom Movement (whoever they are). That is very encouraging. I thought there would be a few hundred at least.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/public-react-after-protesters-breach-4139611

 

More people in that picture than brain cells.

[RamNut]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

"...founded on an erroneous view that the vast majority of cases would be mild, like influenza."

I can't be bothered to look them up, but i'm sure you posted quite a lot about how it was only similar to flu. That the infection rate was over estimated. That for most the symptoms are no worse than flu. That people weren't dying. Then ok people are dying but they would have died anyway. Then that they died with covid 19 not because of covid 19. Etc etc etc. From memory that mirrored the tory propoganda. Even boris was filmed saying he said symptoms but they were just mild.

then the virus got hold of him and his world view changed.

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I can't be bothered to look them up, but i'm sure you posted quite a lot about how it was only similar to flu. That the infection rate was over estimated. That for most the symptoms are no worse than flu. That people weren't dying. Then ok people are dying but they would have died anyway. Then that they died with covid 19 not because of covid 19. Etc etc etc. From memory that mirrored the tory propoganda. Even boris was filmed saying he said symptoms but they were just mild.

then the virus got hold of him and his world view changed.

What are the stats though for them to say that the majority of the cases are not mild?

I'd expect them to present some numbers if they are going to be making medical assertions.

[Tamworthram]

26 minutes ago, rynny said:

To add to that, when (if) my son returns on 1st June he will return for 2 days. The school are splitting all that are returning into 2 groups, one will be in school Monday and Tuesday, the school will close Wednesday to clean the whole school, then the second group will be in Thursday and Friday, with another deep clean taking place over the weekend.

My son is nearly 11 and we have given him the option to return. Me and my wife said we believe that he should, but if he doesn't want to then we wouldn't send him. He has said he wants to go back. 

Obviously I don’t know your son but, are you sure he would make the decision not to go (if that’s what he decides) for the right reasons? Other than seeing their mates, there maybe plenty of kids (especially boys I reckon. Sorry if that’s stereotyping but I suspect it maybe true) who don’t really like school much and would be happy to stay at home and interact online.

Hopefully, your son is more sensible and will make a decision for the right reasons.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

40 minutes ago, ramit said:

The study has not been peer reviewed, so there's that.

 

"A team of Australian scientists has produced new evidence that the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19 is optimized for penetration into human cells rather than animal cells, undermining the theory that the virus randomly evolved in an animal subject before passing into human beings, and suggesting instead that it was developed in a laboratory."

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/exclusive-virus-researchers-uncover-evidence-implying-covid-19-was-created-in-a-lab?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com&utm_campaign=8bedc33966-Covid-lab-email-4-16-2020&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-8bedc33966-405944361

Darwin's survival of the fittest makes no difference between humans and the animal kingdom. That nasty little virus will try its hardest to get its spikes into any living cell it comes across. We are all naked apes.

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Darwin's survival of the fittest makes no difference between humans and the animal kingdom. That nasty little virus will try its hardest to get its spikes into any living cell it comes across. We are all naked apes.

Has your opinion been peer reviewed?

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Indeed. Then they abandoned that policy instead of stepping it up.

If they gave a reason I’m not sure I heard it. The only think I can think is that we weren’t geared up to test a mass of people. Setting the centres up could be do but producing the tests and then anaylising the results may take a bit longer to get in place and that may be why we abandoned that plan. I’m with you I think it would have been a good strategy to test and trace on a large scale. I’m interested in seeing why it was abandoned.

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, Van Gritters said:

If they gave a reason I’m not sure I heard it. The only think I can think is that we weren’t geared up to test a mass of people. Setting the centres up could be do but producing the tests and then anaylising the results may take a bit longer to get in place and that may be why we abandoned that plan. I’m with you I think it would have been a good strategy to test and trace on a large scale. I’m interested in seeing why it was abandoned.

It was the contact-tracing that was abandoned around the time that there were 'too many'. I have no idea what the reason was - I'm sure that somebody will point out the fact that it was a perfectly sensible approach to take, and perhaps it was. Or perhaps it wasn't.

 

 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I assume you realise that prisons are fairly self-contained units, or at least I hope they are?

The main argument against opening schools is that it effectively takes all those self-isolated families and mixes them all up again. For about 6 weeks at the end of the school year before another 6 weeks holiday. Before we really understand if the virus will flare up again. Using the worst possible people to get to social distance ie young children.

The genius government advice is currently you can only meet one person from a different household outdoors 2m apart. But in 2 weeks it will be ok to stick loads of young kids in a class room together?

You might be surprised to hear that many people no longer trust anything the government says anymore, and that 'following the science' means doing what Cummings says after he listens to a few eggheads ramble on at the 'politically independent' Sage meetings.

The muppets in charge all got coronavirus as they didn't social distance, and the head buffoon was trying to look hard by shaking the hands of coronavirus patients, against medical advice!

Your dramatic experiences of working in prisons have nothing to do with schools reopening.

Maybe we should open all bars and restaurants now, as after all, doctors and nurses had to treat infectious patients without proper protection?

So you happy to follow gov regs regards pubs and such like ?

[1of4]

With teachers qustioning the safety of their work place, not just for themselves but also for the produce they are manufacturing.  The campaign to demonize them as started to get ramped up.

I'm certain that when the majority of the workforce on returning to their place of work, think it's unsafe will soon be calling for their health and safety officer, to do a risk assessment. Just as I'm sure that employers will do checks on any product that as been in contact with their workforce, before passing it on to their customers.

I know when I undertook the training to carry out risk assessments in the workplace. The first thing I was told was that a risk assessment must be carried out in the area to be assessed and not sat in some comfy office. So how can the government in Whitehall tell teachers it safe for them to return to their classrooms.