Coronavirus

[Archied]

7 hours ago, CWC1983 said:

I went out for my walk today, along the canal and round the local village. 

There is definitely a problem with a small % of teens and early 20's. 

Groups of teenagers hanging about the canal and generally not giving a stuff. 

A lot of cars passing me in the village were youngsters. 2 in the front, 2 in the back looking moody, you know the type. 

Do they still think its an over 70's problem. Selfish bamfords. 

While im on it,  people that vape whilst on their walks without the social intelligence to realise what they are doing as their clouds of sweet smelling crap waft into people's faces. ?

 

Here we go again , there’s been plenty said on tv regards vaping and virus , perhaps you should see it as a warning sign of how far the air people breathe out actually goes 

vaping has been the single biggest thing to help people get off cigarettes ever , 

so sad to see the same old bash others under the umbrella of this crisis, if we go down that road then you are gonna find very very few that don’t have they’re own personal faults but only want to see others

im hoping your someone that leads by example to our youngsters and doesn’t touch alcohol , a drug that kills more and causes more misery and mayhem by MILES 

[Mucker1884]

12 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Conundrum.. Father-in-laws birthday on Wednesday.. Well into his 80s now and of an era where they were possibly made of sterner stuff.. Safe to say he is struggling staying in but been brilliant doing so. We get the shopping etc so he does not have to. 
Walkable distance from us and we were thinking about walking round (daily exercise as normal), taking a bottle of red and sitting in his front garden and having a glass with him. Normal distancing rules apply. 
Not essential  in the greater scheme of things but would mean the world to him. 
I would say that’s acceptable is only for his sanity and the wife’s.. And mine as well, love the old git really.

Yes or No?

The head says NO!  
"The daily walk" is a maximum allowance.  It's not compulsory!  
The less you walk in a public street, the less risk of contamination, either giving or receiving. 
You can't pass anyone on the street if you stay in. 
You can't touch wine glasses touched by others "not in your household" if you don't leave your household (or allow others in). 
You can't trip over a kerb in your house, or indeed get ran over. 
What will you sit on?  Maybe someone has to handle those seats before and/or after?  
You're not delivering food or medicines (on this occasion) to keep him healthy/alive, so not essential.
You are not delivering soap, to stop him stinking of wee, so not essential.
2m distancing is a minimum.  2 streets is better.
He's "well into his 80's"... Amongst the most vulnerable... can you handle the guilt, should things go wrong?

Real life example:
A good few years back, on match days, I used to take a cut through and literally cross the A52 dual carriageway, where I shouldn't (near the cattle market).  The cut through was blocked off a while back now.  I now have to walk the long way round, via Pentagon Island (pedestrian crossings). 
I never did get ran over by a car doing 70mph(!), but there's no denying that risk is all but gone now!

 

The heart says YES!
OK, you may not be delivering food/medicines, but that little bit of company may just be enough to top up his sanity for another couple of weeks at least?
It is rumoured that... apparently... Red wine can actually be beneficial, health-wise?  I don't touch the stuff, so cannot comment!
You get that exercise after all... whether you need it or not!
What are the chances of contamination in the street(s), either giving or receiving?  Pretty low I'd imagine (although not zero!)
Assuming neither you nor they currently have the virus, where's the harm in all four of you potentially touching the same wine glass/bottle, or seat?
He's "Well into his 80's".  Can you handle the guilt, if things go wrong, and it ultimately turns out you never got tot see him on his last birthday!  (Harsh I know, but none of us know what is around the corner!)

Real life dilemma:
Muckerette has been out for a 30 min return walk to the post office on each of the last 3 Tuesday's.  Other than a few seconds each Thursday putting the bins out (anti-bac spray gun in hand!), I haven't been beyond the front gate for 12 days now.  That was a trip to Morrisons.  Before that, it was a further 7 days.  (I suspect this current stint will become 14/15 days, before I venture out, again to Morrisons).  The rest of the time, it's literally been just the 2 of us.  Keeping fit/active, keeping "busy", keeping sane, and keeping in love, all without the need or desire to venture out.  I appreciate we do have a reasonably tidy/practical/welcoming and fairly private (and sunny) back garden.
However, come 5th May, my own father in law will become "beyond his 80's" for the first time!  We'd need to drive (Chad to Ilson).  We'd have a similar scenario there... front or back garden, social distancing, mugs of tea etc.
We haven't made that decision as yet, one way or the other!

 

So there you have it... absolutely no help whatsoever!  You're welcome!  ??

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

The head says NO!  
"The daily walk" is a maximum allowance.  It's not compulsory!  
The less you walk in a public street, the less risk of contamination, either giving or receiving. 
You can't pass anyone on the street if you stay in. 
You can't touch wine glasses touched by others "not in your household" if you don't leave your household (or allow others in). 
You can't trip over a kerb in your house, or indeed get ran over. 
What will you sit on?  Maybe someone has to handle those seats before and/or after?  
You're not delivering food or medicines (on this occasion) to keep him healthy/alive, so not essential.
You are not delivering soap, to stop him stinking of wee, so not essential.
2m distancing is a minimum.  2 streets is better.
He's "well into his 80's"... Amongst the most vulnerable... can you handle the guilt, should things go wrong?

Real life example:
A good few years back, on match days, I used to take a cut through and literally cross the A52 dual carriageway, where I shouldn't (near the cattle market).  The cut through was blocked off a while back now.  I now have to walk the long way round, via Pentagon Island (pedestrian crossings). 
I never did get ran over by a car doing 70mph(!), but there's no denying that risk is all but gone now!

 

The heart says YES!
OK, you may not be delivering food/medicines, but that little bit of company may just be enough to top up his sanity for another couple of weeks at least?
It is rumoured that... apparently... Red wine can actually be beneficial, health-wise?  I don't touch the stuff, so cannot comment!
You get that exercise after all... whether you need it or not!
What are the chances of contamination in the street(s), either giving or receiving?  Pretty low I'd imagine (although not zero!)
Assuming neither you nor they currently have the virus, where's the harm in all four of you potentially touching the same wine glass/bottle, or seat?
He's "Well into his 80's".  Can you handle the guilt, if things go wrong, and it ultimately turns out you never got tot see him on his last birthday!  (Harsh I know, but none of us know what is around the corner!)

Real life dilemma:
Muckerette has been out for a 30 min return walk to the post office on each of the last 3 Tuesday's.  Other than a few seconds each Thursday putting the bins out (anti-bac spray gun in hand!), I haven't been beyond the front gate for 12 days now.  That was a trip to Morrisons.  Before that, it was a further 7 days.  (I suspect this current stint will become 14/15 days, before I venture out, again to Morrisons).  The rest of the time, it's literally been just the 2 of us.  Keeping fit/active, keeping "busy", keeping sane, and keeping in love, all without the need or desire to venture out.  I appreciate we do have a reasonably tidy/practical/welcoming and fairly private (and sunny) back garden.
However, come 5th May, my own father in law will become "beyond his 80's" for the first time!  We'd need to drive (Chad to Ilson).  We'd have a similar scenario there... front or back garden, social distancing, mugs of tea etc.
We haven't made that decision as yet, one way or the other!

 

So there you have it... absolutely no help whatsoever!  You're welcome!  ??

Knew you would come through and clear the muddy waters. ?

For the record. 
 

1. We will take our own wine glasses. He will use his. 
2. He will drink his red and we will drink a different one. 
3. We will just sit in his rather long front garden and he will sit on his front step. 
4. The walk there is pretty quiet. Takes about 15 mins. 
5. He would argue that red wine IS medicinal. 

[Tamworthram]

15 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Conundrum.. Father-in-laws birthday on Wednesday.. Well into his 80s now and of an era where they were possibly made of sterner stuff.. Safe to say he is struggling staying in but been brilliant doing so. We get the shopping etc so he does not have to. 
Walkable distance from us and we were thinking about walking round (daily exercise as normal), taking a bottle of red and sitting in his front garden and having a glass with him. Normal distancing rules apply. 
Not essential  in the greater scheme of things but would mean the world to him. 
I would say that’s acceptable is only for his sanity and the wife’s.. And mine as well, love the old git really.

Yes or No?

Really tough decision but for me it would be No. However remote the chances, however careful you are, you’d never forgive yourselves if he caught it even though you’d never know for certain if he caught it from you.

My advice would be to deliver the shopping as normal (presumably you leave it on the door step then step away) but stand and chat for a few minutes from the end of the drive (assuming he’s got a drive and it’s at least say 5 metres long). Include a card in the shopping which he can open whilst you’re there and also pop a treat in. Wish him a happy birthday and promise to celebrate properly when the restrictions are lifted sufficiently. 

[Mucker1884]

5 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Knew you would come through and clear the muddy waters. ?

For the record. 
 

1. We will take our own wine glasses. He will use his. 
2. He will drink his red and we will drink a different one. 
3. We will just sit in his rather long front garden and he will sit on his front step. 
4. The walk there is pretty quiet. Takes about 15 mins. 
5. He would argue that red wine IS medicinal. 

 

?

Even without the above points, I can't deny my heart appears to be wanting to overrule my head... even more so with those points taken into account.

BUT... 

Ultimately, and in all seriousness, whilst I appreciate the unenviable dilemma, not one of us on here can give you "the right answer".  We can only give you the answer you want to hear!

 

 

 

Blimey!  Hark at me!  That was almost biblical!  It must be Easter Sunday!  ?

 

 

[1967Ram]

Coronavirus: Boris Johnson 'owes his life to NHS staff'

In his first public statement since being moved out of intensive care on Thursday, Mr Johnson paid tribute to the medics treating him, saying: "I can't thank them enough. I owe them my life."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52258980

 

Perhaps an obvious response but really nice to hear. I've never had much time for Boris to be honest. He's always seemed to be a bit of an upper class 'buffoon' to me.

However, many people change throughout their life and who knows how this (near death?) experience will affect him. As our PM I hope he is 'fighting fit' soon. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

Here we go again , there’s been plenty said on tv regards vaping and virus , perhaps you should see it as a warning sign of how far the air people breathe out actually goes 

vaping has been the single biggest thing to help people get off cigarettes ever , 

okay... they should still be considerate enough not to blow that stuff into other people’s faces. I didn’t experience people smoking cigarettes blowing smoke into my face very often, but because vaping is ‘healthier’ I experience it a lot more often. [CV19 or not]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

so sad to see the same old bash others under the umbrella of this crisis, if we go down that road then you are gonna find very very few that don’t have they’re own personal faults but only want to see others

im hoping your someone that leads by example to our youngsters and doesn’t touch alcohol , a drug that kills more and causes more misery and mayhem by MILES 

Smoking has a much more direct impact on others around them than what you list.

[Sith Happens]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11347343/stockpiler-mum-bins-food-no-regret/

Firstly why would you buy more stuff than you can keep fresh, secondly why go public and boast about it? You do wonder about the intelligence of people at times.

[CWC1983]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

Here we go again , there’s been plenty said on tv regards vaping and virus , perhaps you should see it as a warning sign of how far the air people breathe out. 

im hoping your someone that leads by example to our youngsters and doesn’t touch alcohol , a drug that kills more and causes more misery and mayhem by MILES 

 Thats my point. We are now more aware of the air around us and the reasons why we need to social distance. 

Hence, the last thing I need is people walking in front of me or behind me exhaling their vape. Dont they see it? 

Re the alcohol quote, you have missed the point. Im not having a go at people who vape, or smoking or alcohol, its more about doing these things responsibly. 

If theres been stuff on the TV about it then sorry, Ive missed it.     

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Really tough decision but for me it would be No. However remote the chances, however careful you are, you’d never forgive yourselves if he caught it even though you’d never know for certain if he caught it from you.

My advice would be to deliver the shopping as normal (presumably you leave it on the door step then step away) but stand and chat for a few minutes from the end of the drive (assuming he’s got a drive and it’s at least say 5 metres long). Include a card in the shopping which he can open whilst you’re there and also pop a treat in. Wish him a happy birthday and promise to celebrate properly when the restrictions are lifted sufficiently. 

Like I said... Conundrum.. Can see both sides.

Unfortunately there is no chance of him using Zoom or House Party.

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

 

?

Even without the above points, I can't deny my heart appears to be wanting to overrule my head... even more so with those points taken into account.

BUT... 

Ultimately, and in all seriousness, whilst I appreciate the unenviable dilemma, not one of us on here can give you "the right answer".  We can only give you the answer you want to hear!

 

 

 

Blimey!  Hark at me!  That was almost biblical!  It must be Easter Sunday!  ?

 

 

Thanks preacher..  

Just goes to show how difficult these decisions are. You cannot protect everyone 100%.  He will still open his mail without precautions, same when he moves the bin for collecting. Who knows who handled his shopping before we got to it..

poo times indeed..

[G STAR RAM]

47 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11347343/stockpiler-mum-bins-food-no-regret/

Firstly why would you buy more stuff than you can keep fresh, secondly why go public and boast about it? You do wonder about the intelligence of people at times.

What a thoroughly excellent article, so glad I wasted 30 seconds of my life reading it!

[Mucker1884]

47 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11347343/stockpiler-mum-bins-food-no-regret/

Firstly why would you buy more stuff than you can keep fresh, secondly why go public and boast about it? You do wonder about the intelligence of people at times.

That's bad enough, but then you see what she's throwing away  (Only looked at the pics, not read it)... The warburtons thins (bread) could have gone straight in the freezer until needed.  Crawfords cheddars (as per pretty much all biscuits) will last for months beyond any stated use by date.  They'll go soft (and therefore no longer enjoyable) long before they would do you any harm.
Pickles... Worcestershire sauce.  These last eons.  No way has she bought these in the past month or so!

Even the spuds could have been saved in time... boil 'em up and mash 'em, or wedge them up and bake in the oven.  Both options can then go in the freezer until needed.

She's infuriating... Virus or no virus!

 

 

Oh yeah... and that chin mask... what's that all about?  To keep the virus out of her beard?   Stupid bint!  ?

[TimRam]

[ThePrisoner]

On 11/04/2020 at 07:08, TexasRam said:

Have a look at Flight Radar 24, then check some pictures of the arrivals lounge. That’s not flights with no passengers Freight or medical supplies 

The vast majority of freight is actually shipped on the lower deck of commercial flights. These are still flying. Freight makes up the vast majority of commercial airlines revenue with passengers as a bonus. 

I’ve still been managing freight since returning to work (from home) across commercial passenger jets. There isn’t any passengers on these.  

[RamNut]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8143385/Coronavirus-NOT-spread-vape-clouds-unless-e-cigarette-user-coughs.html

Whilst the title emphasises the word NOT, the article presents arguments both for and against vape cloud transmission.

the argument against emphasised droplet transmission by coughing but.....

Quote

The latest guidelines from Chinese health authorities [23, 43] described three main transmission routes for the COVID-19: 1) droplets transmission, 2) contact transmission, and 3) aerosol transmission. Droplets transmission was reported to occur when respiratory droplets (as produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes) are ingested or inhaled by individuals nearby in close proximity; contact transmission may occur when a subject touches a surface or object contaminated with the virus and subsequently touch their mouth, nose, or eyes; and aerosol transmission may occur when respiratory droplets mix into the air, forming aerosols

in addition to droplet / coughing transmission, a finer aerosol transmission is also possible. 

Quote

E-cigarettes produce an aerosol by heating a liquid that usually contains nicotine—the addictive drug in regular cigarettes, cigars, and other tobacco products—flavorings, and other chemicals that help to make the aerosol. Users inhale this aerosol into their lungs. ... Using an e-cigarette is sometimes called “vaping.”

 So it would seem theoretically possible to exhale virus in an aerosol.

Quote

it can spread very few virus carrying droplets, as much as blowing or mouth breathing, slightly more than sedentary breathing and far less than coughing or sneezing. However, exhaled vapor can only spread the virus when vaping, thus infected vapers (or any infected person) will spread much more viruses over time from their continuous regular breathing.

 

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, 1967Ram said:

Coronavirus: Boris Johnson 'owes his life to NHS staff'

In his first public statement since being moved out of intensive care on Thursday, Mr Johnson paid tribute to the medics treating him, saying: "I can't thank them enough. I owe them my life."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52258980

 

Perhaps an obvious response but really nice to hear. I've never had much time for Boris to be honest. He's always seemed to be a bit of an upper class 'buffoon' to me.

However, many people change throughout their life and who knows how this (near death?) experience will affect him. As our PM I hope he is 'fighting fit' soon. 

He now has the perfect story to justify his transformation to a socialist. When other Tories criticise the vast sums he will spend repairing the country and the state, he will simply mention his Road to Damascus moment in the ICU. He used to want a war so he could be remembered as a Churchill figure. Now he knows his legacy can be Britain's greatest Socialist PM.

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Whilst the title emphasises the word NOT, the article presents arguments both for and against vape cloud transmission.

the argument against emphasised droplet transmission by coughing but.....

in addition to droplet / coughing transmission, a finer aerosol transmission is also possible. 

 So it would seem theoretically possible to exhale virus in an aerosol.

 

A good job I'm self-isolating then - the only vapour I'm going to be inhaling is that produced by my vape pen.

[Gone]

35 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said:

The vast majority of freight is actually shipped on the lower deck of commercial flights. These are still flying. Freight makes up the vast majority of commercial airlines revenue with passengers as a bonus. 

I’ve still been managing freight since returning to work (from home) across commercial passenger jets. There isn’t any passengers on these.  

That’s not what the pictures from the arrivals lounges show? (And actual ones not just something on Twitter) people are still traveling unfortunately 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Like I said... Conundrum.. Can see both sides.

Unfortunately there is no chance of him using Zoom or House Party.

This is easy to say but not to practice, it is surely about the quality of life not the quantity?