The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gaspode said: I'm going to be controversial (and no doubt get slated for it), but I'm not bothered that he's going - in fact I'm almost pleased. Now I'll temper that by saying he's very good at what he does - and when he was part of that Mac team, he was brilliant for us - but those dayys have gone.... I just struggle to see how we build a team playing the way that Cocu seems to want to play with Martin up front. His lack of mobility means he's a passenger for long parts of games when we're under pressure and the very fact he's on the pitch tends to dictate how we set up. I appreciate that it's not his fault he finds himself isolated in a lot of games due to the lack of other players getting up to support him, but that's actually the point. Without the support of others, he offers little to the team unless we manage to get a corner or freekick where he can get amongst the defenders - he's never going to get on the end of a clearance, turn a defender and score; he's not going to to burst from the halfway line and thunder a shot from the edge of the box - simply not his game - and yet we're increasingly playing a possession based game which relies on quick breaks - that demands a quick and mobile striker which Martin has never been.... Thanks for the good times Chris, but best for both sides if you find somewhere else and we go with a different type of striker that better suits our side.... You my friend have just nailed it. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Benrahma was playing for Angers in 2016. We chose to buy Camara Replacing Martin will be a doddle then! I did ask in the Mike te Weriek thread who scouted him, was thinking we might have some new ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, Gaspode said: I'm going to be controversial (and no doubt get slated for it), but I'm not bothered that he's going - in fact I'm almost pleased. Now I'll temper that by saying he's very good at what he does - and when he was part of that Mac team, he was brilliant for us - but those dayys have gone.... I just struggle to see how we build a team playing the way that Cocu seems to want to play with Martin up front. His lack of mobility means he's a passenger for long parts of games when we're under pressure and the very fact he's on the pitch tends to dictate how we set up. I appreciate that it's not his fault he finds himself isolated in a lot of games due to the lack of other players getting up to support him, but that's actually the point. Without the support of others, he offers little to the team unless we manage to get a corner or freekick where he can get amongst the defenders - he's never going to get on the end of a clearance, turn a defender and score; he's not going to to burst from the halfway line and thunder a shot from the edge of the box - simply not his game - and yet we're increasingly playing a possession based game which relies on quick breaks - that demands a quick and mobile striker which Martin has never been.... Thanks for the good times Chris, but best for both sides if you find somewhere else and we go with a different type of striker that better suits our side.... The only thing I’d add is that Martin would have filled a gap whilst we rebuilt other areas of the squad when resources are already tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, Gaspode said: I just struggle to see how we build a team playing the way that Cocu seems to want to play with Martin up front. Oddly though - Cocu thought Martin could play the kind of football Cocu wants to play... ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: We looked at Watkins. Who were the other two? How much did they cost? Benrahma bargain 2.7m Mbeumo not so much of a bargain 5.4m Add in Olie Watkins for 1.8m alright you are looking at 10m total but still pretty good considering what tosh we have spent money on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Oddly though - Cocu thought Martin could play the kind of football Cocu wants to play... ?♂️ Maybe he saw Martin next season in a Curtis Davies type of role. Coming on if we are struggling and needing a change of approach? This season PC didn't have many options up front with Jack carrying an injury most of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 If it's true that Martin is welcome back if he cannot find a better deal elsewhere, it's understandable that he would try that first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, ramit said: If it's true that Martin is welcome back if he cannot find a better deal elsewhere, it's understandable that he would try that first What I don't get is both parties have realistically had since at least January to do a deal or get a new deal, which would make one think they weren't poles apart, else why keep talking? And since then we've had a Covid-19 'bomb' hit footballs finances. Dunno really who's fooling who, Cocu wants Martin (within reason) and I can't think that Martin really believes he'll get pre-Covid-19 wages. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 47 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Replacing Martin will be a doddle then! I did ask in the Mike te Weriek thread who scouted him, was thinking we might have some new ideas? I imagine that came from Cocu or one of his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I imagine that came from Cocu or one of his team. The obvious route for a replacement is surely where they play Cocu style football? You would have to think that he’s looking to bring in a striker with similar attributes from his home country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 58 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: That got me more than it had any right to. Every single one of them gambled on getting this club promoted. Russell didn’t go to Bournemouth Keogh and Bryson didn’t go to Burnley and commited long term. Thorne left Premiership West Brom. Martin commited his peak years to Derby whilst still at Fulham. It hasn’t paid off for anyone, we’ve gone over it so many times but it’s near scandalous that we couldn’t manage it. i just watch that video and think what a dickwad the bug eyed captain was....and no wonder we didnt get promoted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: i just watch that video and think what a dickwad the bug eyed captain was....and no wonder we didnt get promoted... This yours? Found it next to a bag of humbugs that had ‘For Muespach ONLY’ written on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Ellafella said: Letting CM19 go is a mistake. That’s not based on sentiment because “I like him”. We should have kept him. He’s proven. It goes down in the great big book of Derby County mistakes which comprises, Inter Alia 1. signing Anya and giving him a fat contract 2. Signing Nick Blackman 3. Not selecting Bryson at Wembley v QPR 4. Hiring Nigel Pearson 5. Hiring Phil Brown 6. Hiring Tommy Docherty 7. Accepting Clough & Taylor’s resignation 8. Not checking Esteban Fuertes’s passport 9. . . . selling Will Hughes for 8 shillings and sixpence 10. Not starting Marriott v Villa @ Wembley ? Swapping Gemmill for Middleton? Selling Sir Bobby to Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: The only thing I’d add is that Martin would have filled a gap whilst we rebuilt other areas of the squad when resources are already tight. But (admittedly guesswork) he seemed to want a longer contract or more money (or both) than we wanted to give him. Seems we offered him a 'stopgap' contract but he rejected it - no point in paying over the odds or being stuck with (what would become) a bit-part player for years just to cover a short-term issue (that we can potentially fix via a loan).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Chester40 said: Martin providing no platform for them to get up the pitch. Not working the defenders, not stretching the play, stood around looking irritated, before throwing himself on the ground and not getting free kicks? Maybe... ? Commons, Bueno and Cywka playing off Kuqi > literally me up front > Commons, Bueno and Cywka with Luke Moore running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said: I am in two minds. Think he is talented and been a great servant to the club. But on the other hand I think we could do with more pace and mobility up top. Good luck to him ? Absolutely but we also need variety which Martin did give us but if he had stayed I was expecting a rotating role with others dependant on the opposition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gccrowdpleaser Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Gaspode said: I'm going to be controversial (and no doubt get slated for it), but I'm not bothered that he's going - in fact I'm almost pleased. Now I'll temper that by saying he's very good at what he does - and when he was part of that Mac team, he was brilliant for us - but those dayys have gone.... I just struggle to see how we build a team playing the way that Cocu seems to want to play with Martin up front. His lack of mobility means he's a passenger for long parts of games when we're under pressure and the very fact he's on the pitch tends to dictate how we set up. I appreciate that it's not his fault he finds himself isolated in a lot of games due to the lack of other players getting up to support him, but that's actually the point. Without the support of others, he offers little to the team unless we manage to get a corner or freekick where he can get amongst the defenders - he's never going to get on the end of a clearance, turn a defender and score; he's not going to to burst from the halfway line and thunder a shot from the edge of the box - simply not his game - and yet we're increasingly playing a possession based game which relies on quick breaks - that demands a quick and mobile striker which Martin has never been.... Thanks for the good times Chris, but best for both sides if you find somewhere else and we go with a different type of striker that better suits our side.... Balanced, sensible and spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, gccrowdpleaser said: Balanced, sensible and spot on! 4 minutes ago, gccrowdpleaser said: I just struggle to see how we build a team playing the way that Cocu seems to want to play with Martin up front. What is balanced about that statement? Why did Cocu want him to stay then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Gaspode said: I'm going to be controversial (and no doubt get slated for it), but I'm not bothered that he's going - in fact I'm almost pleased. Now I'll temper that by saying he's very good at what he does - and when he was part of that Mac team, he was brilliant for us - but those dayys have gone.... I just struggle to see how we build a team playing the way that Cocu seems to want to play with Martin up front. His lack of mobility means he's a passenger for long parts of games when we're under pressure and the very fact he's on the pitch tends to dictate how we set up. I appreciate that it's not his fault he finds himself isolated in a lot of games due to the lack of other players getting up to support him, but that's actually the point. Without the support of others, he offers little to the team unless we manage to get a corner or freekick where he can get amongst the defenders - he's never going to get on the end of a clearance, turn a defender and score; he's not going to to burst from the halfway line and thunder a shot from the edge of the box - simply not his game - and yet we're increasingly playing a possession based game which relies on quick breaks - that demands a quick and mobile striker which Martin has never been.... Thanks for the good times Chris, but best for both sides if you find somewhere else and we go with a different type of striker that better suits our side.... You’ve literally seen Martin score the bulk of his Derby goals in a possession based team, a team that would camp in the opposition half and score team goals seemingly at will but also had the ability to quickly transition and tear teams to shreds on the break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Sibley,I can go with,he's only going to get better but Rooney definitely on quite a severe decline and I can't see him matching this year's quota other than for penalties and the odd free kuck. The bloke was asked to control games especially 9 games in three weeks - he will be fine next season 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Benrahma was playing for Angers in 2016. We chose to buy Camara And Lampard watched Brentford play a lot and signed jafoozon For what £3 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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