EFL charge Derby over ffp

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, gfs1ram said:

So there was a 'hidden reserve' in the property of £40m. It is NOT unusual to have 'hidden reserves' in assets in a balance sheet. I have not looked back but I think the £41m valuation had been in the Accounts for 4 or 5 years so the valuation may well have increased during that time. By £40m ? Yes seems a lot but we do not know on what basis that figure was arrived at ie with development / roof etc for gigs. 

Valuation was in 2013.

Only thing is, in every set of accounts since then the directors have confirmed that the property is in the accounts at a true and fair value.

If the valuation includes things that have not yet been done then I agree with the EFL that the valuation is wrong.

Like you though, I think.the valuation has to be wildly wrong for us to fall foul of FFP unless my calculator isnt working.

[Ramleicester]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

And if that's the case, it's failing. FFP is there to ensure the top clubs in the Premier League can spend almost unlimited amounts, and the clubs below the top 6 will never be able to challenge their spending. Ensuring the top clubs remain in their position. In the Championship, it ensures if you ever get relegated from the Premier League the odds are stacked in your favour to go back up due to how unfair parachute payments are.

Could not agree more. 

[Wolfie20]

Has David closed the TRANSFER FORUM yet?

[SaffyRam]

13 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Another group added to the incompetence list sorry comms team, you join the recruitment team, Mel Morris, the manager and the players. ??‍♂️

You forgot the groundsman ?

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, chadlad said:

I hope that MM is going to come out fighting with all guns blazing over this seemingly ridiculous EFL charge.

FWIW ppl may be interested in the following copied from the BBC website (apologies if already posted).

Sheffield Wednesday have issued a claim against the English Football League for allegedly "acting unlawfully" by charging the club over the sale of their ground to owner Dejphon Chansiri. The Owls sold Hillsborough for about £60m, helping them post a pre-tax profit of £2.5m in 2017-18.

 

That was a completely different animal.

Sheff Wed sold their ground after the year end and then extended their accounting period to get the ground sale in.

[Andicis]

Just now, Saffy van der Ram said:

You forgot the groundsman ?

The list is too long to remember them all at this point ??

[Gaspode]

4 minutes ago, chadlad said:

I hope that MM is going to come out fighting with all guns blazing over this seemingly ridiculous EFL charge.

FWIW ppl may be interested in the following copied from the BBC website (apologies if already posted).

Sheffield Wednesday have issued a claim against the English Football League for allegedly "acting unlawfully" by charging the club over the sale of their ground to owner Dejphon Chansiri. The Owls sold Hillsborough for about £60m, helping them post a pre-tax profit of £2.5m in 2017-18.

 

Pretty sure the case against Wednesday was that they sold the stadium in one year but put the sale in the accounts for another year purely to get around FFP.....

[Derbados]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The EFL statement says we've been charged. Doesn't mean we're proven to be guilty yet. We haven't responded yet, the case isn't closed. Why don't you wait and hold judgement rather than hysterically rant about our club being terribly run? 

So an opinion is now a hysterical rant because you don’t agree with it, smooth. . . 
 

the fact that we’ve even been charged in the first place, the Joiners incident, the shocking recruitment, incompetent staff  (Sam Rush), incompetent succession of managers (Paul Clement was going to be our Alex Ferguson, remember that?), “the Derby way”, drone Gate, dressing room gate, spy gate, etc etc etc do I need to go on? 

[Stive Pesley]

23 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

BBC says we had the stadium down on the accounts as an asset worth 41m. The EFL valuation is much closer to that than our valuation. I guess the point is how on Earth we managed to sell it for almost double what we’ve previously valued it at, as an asset. Now obviously the value as an asset is different to a value that you would sell it for, but it does bring our valuation into a bit of disrepute for me. The more I look into this, the more I think the EFL has a case here. It’s a difficult one, because I can see how a stadium would be worth 80m looking at the fees teams are paying to build new ones these days. But I do think the EFL has a legitimate case here.

Yes, but I can't see how it will stand up.

We know from the Fan Forums that Mel was looking at ways to find loopholes in the various FFP laws. He obviously ran the Stadium sale one by the EFL who said "that's fine if you get an independent valuation so we know the value isn't artiificially inflated"

Independent valuer says £80m. Mel checks that's ok with the EFL. They say yes. Deal is done and Mel cuts his cloth accordingly.

What has to be considered is that the valuation is really of no odds to Mel, It was just a figure that allowed them to plan. The guy is worth half a billion, so a few tens of a million is neither here nor there. If the independent valuer had said £40m - we'd have just gone with it and worked the rest of the FFP balance out from there.

It's surely impossible to try and enforce a financial fairness policy if you can retrospectively move the goalposts. If the EFL had disputed the valuation at the time then none of this would be happening

 

[Andicis]

Just now, Derbados said:

So an opinion is now a hysterical rant because you don’t agree with it, smooth. . . 
 

the fact that we’ve even been charged in the first place, the Joiners incident, the shocking recruitment, incompetent staff  (Sam Rush), incompetent succession of managers (Paul Clement was going to be our Alex Ferguson, remember that?), “the Derby way”, drone Gate, dressing room gate, spy gate, etc etc etc do I need to go on? 

The drink driving was not the club's fault. Spygate? Really? You're reaching so ducking hard for something to hit us with, crikey. Was the drone thing ever proven to be true? The only thing this highlights is that you're desperately scrambling with anything to paint your narrative that we're badly run. 

[Yani P]

Hopefully we are watertight on this and end up on the offensive against this tinpot EFL organisation.. 

[R@M]

2 minutes ago, Ramleicester said:

One thing for sure is that noone will know until the case comes forward and is in the open. Hope it happens quickly.

One thing I do know is that the EFL are VERY keen to ensure that more clubs do not sell their biggest assets in terms of stadiums to fund losses. Was at a recent sports law briefing at St Georges and that came through very clearly, it has also been signalled pretty clearly in the media.

 FFP is there to keep clubs financially viable for the long term. Selling a stadium to clear debts is a one time deal, we may find that is at the root of this saga.

All very well, but if you look into it, very few Football Clubs actually own their stadium. If this is retrospective action, after it was signed off, there would be a legal obligation to do the same diligence for every stadium transaction under the EFL’s jurisdiction. 

[Alph]

Just now, Andicis said:

And if that's the case, it's failing. FFP is there to ensure the top clubs in the Premier League can spend almost unlimited amounts, and the clubs below the top 6 will never be able to challenge their spending. Ensuring the top clubs remain in their position. In the Championship, it ensures if you ever get relegated from the Premier League the odds are stacked in your favour to go back up due to how unfair parachute payments are.

Yep. Remember Tom Glick trying to tell us that it will level the playing field. 

As if the power of Man United living within their means would be equal to anyone like us. Wtf was he talking about?! And then he went to Man City! ?

It protects the elite. Like some of the plans with youth recruitment and youth teams. Can't be upsetting these huge clubs selling the brand in China by having them overtaken by Northampton and their rich Saudi owner. Man City were the last one through the door and then they shut it behind them. 

Very much in favour of them fecking off to a Euro Super League.

[Stive Pesley]

11 minutes ago, chadlad said:

I hope that MM is going to come out fighting with all guns blazing over this seemingly ridiculous EFL charge.

FWIW ppl may be interested in the following copied from the BBC website (apologies if already posted).

Sheffield Wednesday have issued a claim against the English Football League for allegedly "acting unlawfully" by charging the club over the sale of their ground to owner Dejphon Chansiri. The Owls sold Hillsborough for about £60m, helping them post a pre-tax profit of £2.5m in 2017-18.

 

Interesting isn't it "acting unlawfully" and all this talk of "charges". It's worth remembering that none of this is within the UK legal framework. It's just the internal workings of a professional body made up of the clubs that compete in the EFL

I keep coming back to the same conclusion that it's all to appease the one or two gobshite clubs who have complained and the other 70 clubs couldn't give a monkeys

[Ghost of Clough]

The more I think about it the more I’m looking forward to next season. We were founder members of The Football League and we’ll be founder members of The New Football League alongside Bury and Sheffield Wednesday. 

[TramRam]

My there's going to be some sore eyes tomorrow, Very little sleep, Arguing with the wife, Kicking the cat, Sulking and not eating your dinner, Why? because the fools at the EFL have caved in from pressure from other Championship clubs.

Nowts happened, It's a charge, No more no less, Take a deep breath....and breethe.

 

[Ramshankered]

Can’t see how this will end well for EFL. They’re making themselves look rather incompetent (which tbf they are) with their recent antics. Pretty much making it up as they go along. 

[chadlad]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

That was a completely different animal.

Sheff Wed sold their ground after the year end and then extended their accounting period to get the ground sale in.

Which presumably means that we are more likely to win the argument than SWFC are. I would like the club to come out with a strongly worded statement, sooner rather than later.

[Don't Panic]

valuations on stadium prices are very inconsistent the best of times given its specialist function.

Therefore, simple equation;

EFL valuation ( *includes the obligatory the clubs outside of London deduction ) = EFLV

Derby valuation ( independent valuation based on asset) = DV

Equation

( EFLV + DV ) / 2 = Mean Valuation**
 

The above equation ( aka up the rams) on my Casio calculator should see us ok ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BathRam72]

1 hour ago, Ramslaar said:

Dont see how the owner is to blame for this. But im sure most will continue to blame mel for trying to pump his own personal wealth into our club and make it a success. What a terrible man he is..... didnt see many moaning a few years back when we were spending.trouble is on here there is a fair few that couldnt run a ducking bath let alone a football club with a company over it that wont let you spend your money.but i guess rules are rules unless you are QPR,fester, villa, cardiff to name a few.

Ok. You are right Mel has done a wonderful job. 

I dont doubt his heart was in the right place, but he has lead us into turmoil over the past few years.