The Politics Thread 2019

[Stive Pesley]

10 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said:

Free broadband who said that? Don't you there are people using foodbanks or they would starve? Surely it would be better to spend the £40 billion on free broadband on food vouchers for the needy.

Nah - better to give the people using food banks jobs installing free broadband! ?

[GenBr]

39 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Isn't that kinda my point though?  Labour thought the north would vote for them no matter what and turned into a middle class party.  If a PR system was in place the north would be forgotten about forever.  Now people have realised they don't have to vote the same way as their parents, if Labour want to win them back then have got to actually earn their vote rather than ignore them and assume it was a gimme.

I've no idea what your point is. Explain it to me - why do you think a PR system would allow the north to be ignored anymore than it has been for the past 40 years under FPTP. 

[1of4]

2 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said:

Free broadband who said that? Don't you there are people using foodbanks or they would starve? Surely it would be better to spend the £40 billion on free broadband on food vouchers for the needy.

What give billions to those work shy scroungers. The nations not voted tory, to see their taxes wasted on frivolous schemes like this.

Come this time next year after we've signed the great deal with the EU and the even better one with the USA.  Then with all the new well paid jobs that will be available to the british people and the glut of cheap food flooding the country, there'll be no need for food banks anyway.

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

No, I'm trying to make the opposite point. 

I know what I'm saying sounds counter-intuitive, but its the reason the Electoral Collage was put in place in the US as per the third paragraph of the wiki;

Supporters of the Electoral College argue that it is fundamental to American federalism, that it requires candidates to appeal to voters outside large cities, increases the political influence of small states, preserves the two-party system, and makes the electoral outcome appear more legitimate than that of a nationwide popular vote

Its validity has been bought into question lately as Trump lost the popular vote - but then everything Trump does is bought into question.

That's the problem.  You increase the political influence of small states by increasing the weight of their votes per capita. The inescapable corollary is the partial disenfranchisement of voters in larger states. Fundamentally undemocratic.

It's validity of the Electoral College is brought in question by it's own anachronistic absurdity, not by Trump, Bush or anyone else who benefited from it.  It's not their fault that they won by the rules that currently exist. 

Senatorial elections in the US are even more unfair and weighted in favour of people living in areas of low population density. 

PR would work fine the in UK, although it would certainly lead to more coalitions and many people don't like that prospect.

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Very happy with the result indeed apart from the fact I won't be getting my free kitten now which I'm a little sad about.

 

[ketteringram]

Downing Street looks lively tonight. Really nice crowd ?

[AdamRam]

35 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

What give billions to those work shy scroungers. The nations not voted tory, to see their taxes wasted on frivolous schemes like this.

Come this time next year after we've signed the great deal with the EU and the even better one with the USA.  Then with all the new well paid jobs that will be available to the british people and the glut of cheap food flooding the country, there'll be no need for food banks anyway.

Out of interest, how many people use food banks ? 

[maxjam]

53 minutes ago, GenBr said:

I've no idea what your point is. Explain it to me - why do you think a PR system would allow the north to be ignored anymore than it has been for the past 40 years under FPTP. 

I've explained it as good as I can in previous posts.

Does it matter if PR ignores the north more than FPTP does now?  Personally I think it would if PR came in but what if is just stayed the same, what would be the point of changing from FPTP if it didn't improve things?

 

26 minutes ago, Highgate said:

That's the problem.  You increase the political influence of small states by increasing the weight of their votes per capita. The inescapable corollary is the partial disenfranchisement of voters in larger states. Fundamentally undemocratic.

It's validity of the Electoral College is brought in question by it's own anachronistic absurdity, not by Trump, Bush or anyone else who benefited from it.  It's not their fault that they won by the rules that currently exist. 

Senatorial elections in the US are even more unfair and weighted in favour of people living in areas of low population density. 

Its worked for a long time though and with the best of intentions.  Not saying its ideal, just referenced their current model, maybe it to needs updating for a modern world.

 

27 minutes ago, Highgate said:

PR would work fine the in UK, although it would certainly lead to more coalitions and many people don't like that prospect.

Thats your opinion, mine is the opposite especially if the country continues to increase in size and cities become even more populous. 

[maxjam]

29 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

Downing Street looks lively tonight. Really nice crowd ?

Yup, Antifa seem like a nice bunch ?

Some other video's on twitter showing at least one wearing a 'kill tories' jacket.  Nice.

[Gritstone Ram]

32 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

Downing Street looks lively tonight. Really nice crowd ?

Yeah when you have a democratic vote the best thing to do is for the losers to riot.

[Gritstone Ram]

10 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yup, Antifa seem like a nice bunch ?

Some other video's on twitter showing at least one wearing a 'kill tories' jacket.  Nice.

The first steps to mob rule.

[Van der MoodHoover]

6 hours ago, Norman said:

Great interview on Sky News by a youngish Labour MP. Didn't catch his name. The party needs more members like him. Spoke complete sense on how to move forward. 

Was it wes streeting? Mp for ilford 

[Highgate]

33 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I've explained it as good as I can in previous posts.

Does it matter if PR ignores the north more than FPTP does now?  Personally I think it would if PR came in but what if is just stayed the same, what would be the point of changing from FPTP if it didn't improve things?

Its worked for a long time though and with the best of intentions.  Not saying its ideal, just referenced their current model, maybe it to needs updating for a modern world.

Thats your opinion, mine is the opposite especially if the country continues to increase in size and cities become even more populous. 

Yes, obviously just expressing my own opinion on the subject.

I'll have to file you in the 'opponent of democracy' camp hereafter, given your unwillingness to treat voters equally regardless of the geographical location and the population density of their neighbourhood ?.

[Gone]

44 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yup, Antifa seem like a nice bunch ?

Some other video's on twitter showing at least one wearing a 'kill tories' jacket.  Nice.

Love them to be outside Pride Park tomorrow!!!!

[Sith Happens]

40 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

The first steps to mob rule.

Yup

[Uptherams]

He's still not resigned? 

[Anon]

37 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Love them to be outside Pride Park tomorrow!!!!

Not a chance in hell. Antifa are the biggest bunch of pussies around. Organised sports are their kryptonite.

[Parsnip]

24 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

He's still not resigned? 

Give him a minute. He's having a period of reflection. I do it every morning at around 9.45... I announce that I'm definitely going to work, then I have another coffee. 

You can't rush these things.

[1of4]

1 hour ago, AdamRam said:

Out of interest, how many people use food banks ? 

 Don't know, but one is  to many

[ariotofmyown]

9 hours ago, Norman said:

Yesterday, whilst polls were saying that Labour were closing the gap, and many on here thought it was going to be tight, and some even hoping for a hung parliament......how many of you are from proper working class areas, with working class jobs?

Only ask, because it was obvious to me yesterday that everyone around me was voting Conservative, yet the polls and social media seemed to be saying otherwise. I actually got worried that my area was voting different to other working class areas.

There seemed to be a lot of shock from the media and politicians and Channel 4 audiences etc at the exit poll. I was surprised at some of the seats going to Conservatives from Labour. But a good portion of this country didn't see it coming. Just wondered what the perception is from other areas.

Interesting post and question and I was surprised that Tories won so many seats.

I live in an affluent area in the South East and people round here dislike Johnson and are mostly Remain. They haven't got 'working class' jobs though but most of them I know came from fairly modest backgrounds but are relatively comfortably off now. I expected Lib Dems to do much better around these parts, with the Remain vote, as well as people worried about the economic effects of a Johnson Brexit.

I work on the outskirts of London and no one I know admitted to voting Tory. One colleague reckoned every traditional Tory he know was not gonna vote for them. I also work in a heavily multi-cultural office too and I think it must be much harder to ignore things like Johnson's letterbox comment when you have Muslim friends and colleagues. Or his bum boys comment when you know first hand the struggles people have had with their sexuality.

I'm also surprised that the poorer, more Northern areas have gone for Johnson. They would clearer have benefitted more from the Labour manifesto but chose people who, at times, seem to actively despise them. Surely plenty of Brexit voters, who still want Brexit, must still be worried about their jobs if we leave the EU. Labour's plan to offer another referendum when we actually have an idea of the deal was pretty sensible. But Brexit has become so poisoned that most common sense has flown out of the window. The idea that the likes of Johnson and Farage got into Brexit to help these areas would be laughable if it wasn't so depressing.

I'm from a fairly poor midlands town and the mates I've still got from there are all not Tory. We've all got decent jobs though and would probably be better of financially under a tax cutting Johnson regime. Been 41 like me though, you've grown up knowing the devastation that the Tories caused under Thatcher in the Midlands and North, and some of this current mob seem even more extreme. If things have been tough for you for the last 10 years, why give the Tories yet another go now?!

I want to live in a fair and just country, where society is tolerant and people look out for each other. This sort of country would be successful and is easy to achieve with some of the ideas Labour had this time around. In the last 48 hours we have shifted away even further from this direction and I worry for our future. I'll probably be fine though, so fk the lot of you!!

Finally, this was one of my mates chat today when he realised recently that Labour were done for....

"I went to get my hair cut and sat reading the papers for 10 mins while I waited. They were all (they didn’t have the guardian or mirror) horrendously anti Corbin, not one page but the whole rags. The sun (it won’t surprise you) was basically a vile cover to cover “corbin will ruin your life” edition. I had to stop reading it was terrible. But it made me think how many people are taking this in."