GB SPORTS Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Red_Dawn said: It wasn't just a case of making their minds up. The second referendum would be a gerrymandered affair of remain vs SM/CU alignment worse remain. No real leave option available. Then throw in extending the franchise to include children and foreigners..? It would be a complete fix. And why should leave win twice but remain once? Thankfully that has been completely buried by the electorate. Question now is will Johnson pursue a softer Brexit given he isn;'t as incumbent on votes from the likes of the ERG and DUP. Yes completely agree Democracy wouldn't ever been served by another referendum so even myself voting remain didn't want another ? Also a lot of remainers have changed their minds because of the complete intransigence of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 52 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: There’s been some fabulous hot takes on the left.... but I think this is my favourite JeReMy HaS bEeN PrOvEd RiGhT God help us … he sucks .. the end. Worst result since 1983/1935 ….. after a shocking May mess/austerity etc. Self deception here we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said: Yes completely agree Democracy wouldn't ever been served by another referendum so even myself voting remain didn't want another ? Also a lot of remainers have changed their minds because of the complete intransigence of the EU. I think this is a view from within a little bubble., and I'd guess there's still around 50/50 support for leave/remain. To claim that there's a significant number of people who have changed their mind is probably wishful thinking. Personally I think the result of a revote would be closer, but still in favour of leave. People have moved a little. Probably similar numbers have become aware that they weren't given the full story and feel leave isn't as straightforward as was intimated therefore have switched to remain, as those who want to uphold the original vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 44 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Thinking of traditional Labour voters who switched to other parties. Some people couldn't support Labour because they believed Labour wouldn't or couldn't deliver Brexit. Some people couldn't support Labour because they perceive (rightly or wrongly) Corbyn is unelectable based on his popularity/Marxistness/failure to address antisemitism/looks like an old man/isn't a "leader" figure Some people couldn't support Labour because they believe the policies will cost them money I don't see many other reasons people voted, but what proportion the breakdown fell in. I think it was mostly the first. Pretty much cover it, probably in that order as well. Can only judge by social media posts, and the plumber who just came to house ? however the majority said either Brexit get it done and/or I don’t want him anywhere near our country. The other one, regardless of who was paying for it, seemed to be that a lot felt his manifesto was achievable, he promised so much and did voters really believe he could deliver it all. Many thought he was just trying to “buy” votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I think this is a view from within a little bubble., and I'd guess there's still around 50/50 support for leave/remain. To claim that there's a significant number of people who have changed their mind is probably wishful thinking. Personally I think the result of a revote would be closer, but still in favour of leave. People have moved a little. Probably similar numbers have become aware that they weren't given the full story and feel leave isn't as straightforward as was intimated therefore have switched to remain, as those who want to uphold the original vote. You said it was 60/40 the other week. All those old people had died. The only bubble is social media. It's the most echoey echo chamber ever. Now it seems to me it might be 55/45 towards Leave. Maybe more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, Norman said: You said it was 60/40 the other week. All those old people had died. The only bubble is social media. It's the most echoey echo chamber ever. Now it seems to me it might be 55/45 towards Leave. Maybe more. Don't believe I did, maybe you're confusing me with someone else. I've always said I think a revote is a mistake as I don't think anyone has convinced people remaining is the right answer and leave would still win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 hours ago, admira said: Highest ever national debt, economists saying Brexit will be terrible for the UK, spiralling crime rates, police numbers slashed, food bank usage up hundreds of %, a PM that lies constantly and hides in fridges etc etc. I really worry what I’m missing that makes people vote for them in such huge numbers! The opposition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 The demographic of the result is fascinating - Labour are no longer the party of the working class, it's most definitely conservative. My thoughts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, maxjam said: Isn't that the root of problem though, 25% of Labour seats are in London whereas the majority of the rest of the country wants to leave the EU. The Brexit referendum may have been a close 52-48 but iirc something like 450/600 constituencies voted to leave. I'm all for a fairer system of voting, one in which each vote counts but if we adopted a simple PR system the country would be held to the whims of London and other big cities. Similar applies in the US, Trump lost the popular vote but won via the electoral college - if they drop that 80% of the country is ignored and politics is dominated by the coasts. You aren't for proportional representation then. 'London and the other big cities' is probably most of the population of the UK. It's the same scenario in the US. Each person's vote should be of equal value, it seems to me, regardless of whether they live in the city or the country. The cities have more people so they should have more influence. Isn't that the basis of democracy? I think what you really are in favour of is some form of proportional representation based on hectares rather than human population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 This I found distasteful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Curtains said: This I found distasteful Why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, Curtains said: This I found distasteful Why? Her friend, in her own party which she leads, who survived cancer, only 27, won Jo Swinsons seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Why ? She wants to remain and so does Swinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said: Yes completely agree Democracy wouldn't ever been served by another referendum so even myself voting remain didn't want another ? Also a lot of remainers have changed their minds because of the complete intransigence of the EU. I'm not saying the EU isn't capable of intransigence....but what intransigence are you referring to in this case? Several times they came to an agreement with the UK government, only the UK parliament to reject it. The EU has to negotiate in the EU's interest not in the UK's. What positions should they have backed down on in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, Curtains said: She wants to remain and so does Swinson Still don’t see why you found it distasteful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 minute ago, AdamRam said: Still don’t see why you found it distasteful? I just thought Swinson didn’t deserve that from a friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, Ambitious said: The demographic of the result is fascinating - Labour are no longer the party of the working class, it's most definitely conservative. My thoughts: Quite like Boris speech last night, thanking people for “loaning” them a vote, very clever as he knows those that have won him the election are not “natural” Tory supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Curtains said: I just thought Swinson didn’t deserve that from a friend Didn’t know they were friends but still don’t see the problem myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 As I touched on last night, forget the tribalism behind politics because it doesn't help anyone. All we want is for the person in power to do a good job, simple as that, so Boris Johnson really does have the floor now. I didn't and don't want Brexit and I didn't vote for a Tory government. Nevertheless, I sincerely hope I'm wrong - I hope Brexit is everything that leavers believe it will be and I hope this Tory government don't continue to disregard troubling social problems. Boris is now in a position where he can implement the promise he put on the bus in 2016 - the NHS could certainly benefit from the extra £19bn a year funding. The rise in the pound over the last few weeks has been a massive boost for me personally, so I'm one of the lucky ones out of all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Didn’t know they were friends but still don’t see the problem myself. I suppose not but she did say sorry Jo afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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