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The Politics Thread 2019


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4 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Not necessarily true. The vast majority of voters that Labour lost in this election have pinned their hopes on Brexit being the thing that turns their society around. 

If that turns out to be true, then you're right. Labour will remain in opposition for years

If it turns out to be a disaster then those voters will come back pretty damn quick

Yeah sorry - didn't explain it very well - all I'm really asking is,  will they hold their hands up and admit that they got it wrong. That Brexit was not the answer to their problems.

Same question back i guess. Will you hold your hands up if we prosper. Will you admit you got it wrong? 

 

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4 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

But what if they had gone down the remain route as in were staying in Europe 

I’m only asking u as a remain voter out of interest 

Perhaps had it been at the last election i may have i cant be sure.

Its a hypothetical question without all the facts to judge on. Bit like asking me to rate a film without seeing it.

This time round i don't think so no though.

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9 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Same question back i guess. Will you hold your hands up if we prosper. Will you admit you got it wrong? 

 

Abso-fliipin-lutely!

Nothing would please me more than to be proved wrong on Brexit! I don't have any ideological attachment to EU membership, I just don't want to be eating out of the bins this time next year!

 

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1 hour ago, ramesses said:

Where do you get your evidence from?

Repeated polling over the past two years indicates that remain usually has a narrow lead over leave.

When you take into account margins of error and the ‘don’t knows’ then the evidence suggests to me that the country is still roughly split down the middle as it always has been on this divisive issue.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

I said 'I think'. I wasn't stating facts. I thought people would have learnt last night that the polls really don't show the real picture until the votes have been cast. 

Pointless posting polls. 

In fact, has anyone here ever been asked how they are voting in a poll?

Constantly saw polls coming out undertaken for different newspapers and the government etc, but has anyone actually ever took part in one? 

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5 hours ago, Paul71 said:

I think Corbyn misread what the public wanted. He saw a potential shift in public feeling towards leaving and thought simply it would be a vote winner.

I am a bit surprised that the reported support from the younger generation didn't seem to materialize, i guess we will see when more indepth statistics come out.

If my nephews are anything to go by, they don’t go out til nearly 11pm so I guess they missed the chance to vote!?

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53 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Lets have a good old fashioned civil war.

You can't have a good one I'm afraid. To many dead toddlers and foreign fighters.

I would go for things being settled by some bare knuckle champion action though ...

Would love to see Michael Gove v John McDonald.

Ken Clark probably running a book.?

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6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Abso-fliipin-lutely!

Nothing would please me more than to be proved wrong on Brexit! I don't have any ideological attachment to EU membership, I just don't want to be eating out of the bins this time next year!

 

Fair enough.  To be honest if it goes tits up i am more inclined to blame the youth that supposedly are pro europe but couldn't be bothered to vote in the numbers that the older generation did.

Yesterday for me wasn't the time to block it, that was 3 years ago.

 

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6 minutes ago, WharfedaleRam said:

If my nephews are anything to go by, they don’t go out til nearly 11pm so I guess they missed the chance to vote!?

If mine are anything to go by. They have spent their lives being mollycoddled and having their arses wiped,  so they were probably sat there with a puzzled look on their faces wondering why someone hadn't come and voted for them.

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13 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

To be honest if it goes tits up i am more inclined to blame the youth that supposedly are pro europe but couldn't be bothered to vote in the numbers that the older generation did.

Not 100% sure I follow that logic? If it goes titsup you'd be inclined to blame the people who didn't vote to block it three years ago?

Isn't that a bit like crashing your car on the way to work and blaming your missus for not telling you to get the bus?

This is what I mean about people needing to hold their hands up if it doesn't go well. They voted for it - effectively twice

Once in 2016, and then again yesterday, after 3 years of the parliamentary process flashing warning sign after warning sign that said "there are a million different ways to do Brexit and we can't decide which is best" - people voted again to basically say "we don't care - we just want to get it done. We just want to leave"

So if it goes wrong don't blame anyone but yourselves. Leave voters wanted Brexit and then made it clear that they didn't care how it was achieved

 

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31 minutes ago, Norman said:

In fact, has anyone here ever been asked how they are voting in a poll?

My understanding is they really only poll those swing constituencies as they don't really need to know how each area will vote. Apparently it gives them all the accuracy they need.

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37 minutes ago, Norman said:

I said 'I think'. I wasn't stating facts. I thought people would have learnt last night that the polls really don't show the real picture until the votes have been cast. 

Pointless posting polls. 

In fact, has anyone here ever been asked how they are voting in a poll?

Constantly saw polls coming out undertaken for different newspapers and the government etc, but has anyone actually ever took part in one? 

Not pointless at all. A long series of polls which consistently point to the same outcome over a number of years is probably the most reliable indicator of the state of play and the best evidence available.

I don’t think any poll over the past two years gives leave a lead over remain – but it remains exceptionally close.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about but it sounds a bit paranoid to me.

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1 minute ago, ramesses said:

Not pointless at all. A long series of polls which consistently point to the same outcome over a number of years is probably the most reliable indicator of the state of play and the best evidence available.

I don’t think any poll over the past two years gives leave a lead over remain – but it remains exceptionally close.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about but it sounds a bit paranoid to me.

It was a question. No paranoia. 

Most polls don't give a correct Tory outcome before an exit poll. Silent voters. Same with Leavers. 

The only polls I believe is the result last night, the European elections and the 2016 referendum.

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1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

Maybe - although you're the only remainer I know who is admitting they thought that before the result last night. I guess a lot (like me) are coming to terms with that being the only positve to take right now.

Agreed

Did I hear right (I may have not been concentrating) but was there a suggestion from the SNP/Stugeron that they would go ahead with IndyRef2 even if the government refused to sanction it? Could get a bit tasty north of the border too if they go into Catalan style illegal referendum territory

 

I hope not. But then I have a dislike of nationalists in general so am a bit biased ! 

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12 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

My understanding is they really only poll those swing constituencies as they don't really need to know how each area will vote. Apparently it gives them all the accuracy they need.

Makes sense.

So an unexpected swing percentage like last night makes them useless. As most of them turned out to be. 

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21 minutes ago, Norman said:

Makes sense.

So an unexpected swing percentage like last night makes them useless. As most of them turned out to be. 

There wasn’t any ‘unexpected swing’ – the BBC poll of polls indicated that the percentage difference between conservative and labour remained roughly the same throughout the campaign.

I say again, a series of polls which consistently point to the same outcome over a number of years is a fairly reliable indicator of the state of play and the best evidence available and I don’t think any poll over the past two years has any one poll giving leave a lead over remain – but it remains exceptionally close.

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36 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Not 100% sure I follow that logic? If it goes titsup you'd be inclined to blame the people who didn't vote to block it three years ago?

Isn't that a bit like crashing your car on the way to work and blaming your missus for not telling you to get the bus?

This is what I mean about people needing to hold their hands up if it doesn't go well. They voted for it - effectively twice

Once in 2016, and then again yesterday, after 3 years of the parliamentary process flashing warning sign after warning sign that said "there are a million different ways to do Brexit and we can't decide which is best" - people voted again to basically say "we don't care - we just want to get it done. We just want to leave"

So if it goes wrong don't blame anyone but yourselves. Leave voters wanted Brexit and then made it clear that they didn't care how it was achieved

 

Why is it difficult to follow the logic? You have stated a number of times that the youth of today are pro europe. 

They had their chance to vote 3 years ago yet only 60 percent bothered when 90 percent of older people did

Had they bothered their lazy arses then we would probably have voted remain.

I voted remain 3 years ago. That vote was lost then,  not yesterday.

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