Sith Happens Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Not necessarily true. The vast majority of voters that Labour lost in this election have pinned their hopes on Brexit being the thing that turns their society around. If that turns out to be true, then you're right. Labour will remain in opposition for years If it turns out to be a disaster then those voters will come back pretty damn quick Yeah sorry - didn't explain it very well - all I'm really asking is, will they hold their hands up and admit that they got it wrong. That Brexit was not the answer to their problems. Same question back i guess. Will you hold your hands up if we prosper. Will you admit you got it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: But what if they had gone down the remain route as in were staying in Europe I’m only asking u as a remain voter out of interest Perhaps had it been at the last election i may have i cant be sure. Its a hypothetical question without all the facts to judge on. Bit like asking me to rate a film without seeing it. This time round i don't think so no though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Same question back i guess. Will you hold your hands up if we prosper. Will you admit you got it wrong? Abso-fliipin-lutely! Nothing would please me more than to be proved wrong on Brexit! I don't have any ideological attachment to EU membership, I just don't want to be eating out of the bins this time next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, ramesses said: Where do you get your evidence from? Repeated polling over the past two years indicates that remain usually has a narrow lead over leave. When you take into account margins of error and the ‘don’t knows’ then the evidence suggests to me that the country is still roughly split down the middle as it always has been on this divisive issue. https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/ I said 'I think'. I wasn't stating facts. I thought people would have learnt last night that the polls really don't show the real picture until the votes have been cast. Pointless posting polls. In fact, has anyone here ever been asked how they are voting in a poll? Constantly saw polls coming out undertaken for different newspapers and the government etc, but has anyone actually ever took part in one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WharfedaleRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Paul71 said: I think Corbyn misread what the public wanted. He saw a potential shift in public feeling towards leaving and thought simply it would be a vote winner. I am a bit surprised that the reported support from the younger generation didn't seem to materialize, i guess we will see when more indepth statistics come out. If my nephews are anything to go by, they don’t go out til nearly 11pm so I guess they missed the chance to vote!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 53 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Lets have a good old fashioned civil war. You can't have a good one I'm afraid. To many dead toddlers and foreign fighters. I would go for things being settled by some bare knuckle champion action though ... Would love to see Michael Gove v John McDonald. Ken Clark probably running a book.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Abso-fliipin-lutely! Nothing would please me more than to be proved wrong on Brexit! I don't have any ideological attachment to EU membership, I just don't want to be eating out of the bins this time next year! Fair enough. To be honest if it goes tits up i am more inclined to blame the youth that supposedly are pro europe but couldn't be bothered to vote in the numbers that the older generation did. Yesterday for me wasn't the time to block it, that was 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, WharfedaleRam said: If my nephews are anything to go by, they don’t go out til nearly 11pm so I guess they missed the chance to vote!? If mine are anything to go by. They have spent their lives being mollycoddled and having their arses wiped, so they were probably sat there with a puzzled look on their faces wondering why someone hadn't come and voted for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Paul71 said: To be honest if it goes tits up i am more inclined to blame the youth that supposedly are pro europe but couldn't be bothered to vote in the numbers that the older generation did. Not 100% sure I follow that logic? If it goes titsup you'd be inclined to blame the people who didn't vote to block it three years ago? Isn't that a bit like crashing your car on the way to work and blaming your missus for not telling you to get the bus? This is what I mean about people needing to hold their hands up if it doesn't go well. They voted for it - effectively twice Once in 2016, and then again yesterday, after 3 years of the parliamentary process flashing warning sign after warning sign that said "there are a million different ways to do Brexit and we can't decide which is best" - people voted again to basically say "we don't care - we just want to get it done. We just want to leave" So if it goes wrong don't blame anyone but yourselves. Leave voters wanted Brexit and then made it clear that they didn't care how it was achieved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said: So if it goes wrong don't blame anyone but yourselves. Leave voters wanted Brexit and then made it clear that they didn't care how it was achieved That works for me. We'd leave without a deal tomorrow if I had my way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 31 minutes ago, Norman said: In fact, has anyone here ever been asked how they are voting in a poll? My understanding is they really only poll those swing constituencies as they don't really need to know how each area will vote. Apparently it gives them all the accuracy they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, Norman said: I said 'I think'. I wasn't stating facts. I thought people would have learnt last night that the polls really don't show the real picture until the votes have been cast. Pointless posting polls. In fact, has anyone here ever been asked how they are voting in a poll? Constantly saw polls coming out undertaken for different newspapers and the government etc, but has anyone actually ever took part in one? Not pointless at all. A long series of polls which consistently point to the same outcome over a number of years is probably the most reliable indicator of the state of play and the best evidence available. I don’t think any poll over the past two years gives leave a lead over remain – but it remains exceptionally close. Not sure what the rest of your post is about but it sounds a bit paranoid to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Great interview on Sky News by a youngish Labour MP. Didn't catch his name. The party needs more members like him. Spoke complete sense on how to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 The only positive I can see from this situation is that if Brexit does turn out to be hugely damaging for the country Boris now has to own it. It's his 'oven ready' deal so if it turns out to be an absolute mess he can't escape it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 minute ago, ramesses said: Not pointless at all. A long series of polls which consistently point to the same outcome over a number of years is probably the most reliable indicator of the state of play and the best evidence available. I don’t think any poll over the past two years gives leave a lead over remain – but it remains exceptionally close. Not sure what the rest of your post is about but it sounds a bit paranoid to me. It was a question. No paranoia. Most polls don't give a correct Tory outcome before an exit poll. Silent voters. Same with Leavers. The only polls I believe is the result last night, the European elections and the 2016 referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Maybe - although you're the only remainer I know who is admitting they thought that before the result last night. I guess a lot (like me) are coming to terms with that being the only positve to take right now. Agreed Did I hear right (I may have not been concentrating) but was there a suggestion from the SNP/Stugeron that they would go ahead with IndyRef2 even if the government refused to sanction it? Could get a bit tasty north of the border too if they go into Catalan style illegal referendum territory I hope not. But then I have a dislike of nationalists in general so am a bit biased ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, GboroRam said: My understanding is they really only poll those swing constituencies as they don't really need to know how each area will vote. Apparently it gives them all the accuracy they need. Makes sense. So an unexpected swing percentage like last night makes them useless. As most of them turned out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, Norman said: Makes sense. So an unexpected swing percentage like last night makes them useless. As most of them turned out to be. There wasn’t any ‘unexpected swing’ – the BBC poll of polls indicated that the percentage difference between conservative and labour remained roughly the same throughout the campaign. I say again, a series of polls which consistently point to the same outcome over a number of years is a fairly reliable indicator of the state of play and the best evidence available and I don’t think any poll over the past two years has any one poll giving leave a lead over remain – but it remains exceptionally close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Not 100% sure I follow that logic? If it goes titsup you'd be inclined to blame the people who didn't vote to block it three years ago? Isn't that a bit like crashing your car on the way to work and blaming your missus for not telling you to get the bus? This is what I mean about people needing to hold their hands up if it doesn't go well. They voted for it - effectively twice Once in 2016, and then again yesterday, after 3 years of the parliamentary process flashing warning sign after warning sign that said "there are a million different ways to do Brexit and we can't decide which is best" - people voted again to basically say "we don't care - we just want to get it done. We just want to leave" So if it goes wrong don't blame anyone but yourselves. Leave voters wanted Brexit and then made it clear that they didn't care how it was achieved Why is it difficult to follow the logic? You have stated a number of times that the youth of today are pro europe. They had their chance to vote 3 years ago yet only 60 percent bothered when 90 percent of older people did Had they bothered their lazy arses then we would probably have voted remain. I voted remain 3 years ago. That vote was lost then, not yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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