The Politics Thread 2019

[GboroRam]

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Perhaps you only want to see what you want to see.. Plenty of Antifa sites and groups on Facebook and Twitter.

Had a look. Really there's not, if you are looking for English language sites. For example there's not a single event in London. 

The demo looks to me like an SWP attention seeker. Nothing new in that, and I know what they are like. Back in the 90s they were the face of the Anti Racist Alliance, which was a recruiting front for the SWP. I get it, the hard left think they can capitalise on the disillusioned Momentum members, and they want to appeal to the angry youth. But their methods will alienate more than they recruit, so it's counter productive long term. But if the SWP recruit another 10 paper sellers, they'll see it as a win. 

I still think Antifa is a red herring. Plenty of anti racist and anti fascist groups, but I don't think Antifa have much of a presence in the UK. 

[Angry Ram]

5 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Had a look. Really there's not, if you are looking for English language sites. For example there's not a single event in London. 

The demo looks to me like an SWP attention seeker. Nothing new in that, and I know what they are like. Back in the 90s they were the face of the Anti Racist Alliance, which was a recruiting front for the SWP. I get it, the hard left think they can capitalise on the disillusioned Momentum members, and they want to appeal to the angry youth. But their methods will alienate more than they recruit, so it's counter productive long term. But if the SWP recruit another 10 paper sellers, they'll see it as a win. 

I still think Antifa is a red herring. Plenty of anti racist and anti fascist groups, but I don't think Antifa have much of a presence in the UK. 

 

[Norman]

11 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Had a look. Really there's not, if you are looking for English language sites. For example there's not a single event in London. 

The demo looks to me like an SWP attention seeker. Nothing new in that, and I know what they are like. Back in the 90s they were the face of the Anti Racist Alliance, which was a recruiting front for the SWP. I get it, the hard left think they can capitalise on the disillusioned Momentum members, and they want to appeal to the angry youth. But their methods will alienate more than they recruit, so it's counter productive long term. But if the SWP recruit another 10 paper sellers, they'll see it as a win. 

I still think Antifa is a red herring. Plenty of anti racist and anti fascist groups, but I don't think Antifa have much of a presence in the UK. 

London Antifa have 13k followers.

Here they are helping Bristol get some last week. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/ldnantifascists/status/1202965579344359425

A separate London one with 10k followers describe themselves as the following:

'Anarchist antifascist direct action group based in North London. Help keep streets fascist free - No Pasarán!' 

Ah, Direct Action. Got to love that in 2019.

[i-Ram]

[maxjam]

Very good article in today's Guardian about the failure or Labour, Corbyn and the hard left;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party

I'm not sure Momentum or lefties trapped in their social media bubble will accept the obvious though - which is bad for all of us, we need a strong, sane opposition. 

[maxjam]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I thought the posters and placards said Socialist Workers "Party", didn't see Antifa once. 

Show me the SWPs policies on private capital, on nationalism, on class? Or stop misusing the word fascist. 

Say no to racism placard - admirable

Kill Tories now on the back of his jacket - not so admirable

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, Norman said:

London Antifa have 13k followers.

Here they are helping Bristol get some last week. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/ldnantifascists/status/1202965579344359425

A separate London one with 10k followers describe themselves as the following:

'Anarchist antifascist direct action group based in North London. Help keep streets fascist free - No Pasarán!' 

Ah, Direct Action. Got to love that in 2019.

Two?

Im not saying that it's not a thing. I'm saying it's fairly anonymous. It gets press far above its presence deserves. Its more a USA thing than UK. There are more organisations trying to monopolise on the name for their own purposes. There's more anti Antifa groups than Antifa groups. 

[GboroRam]

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Say no to racism placard - admirable

Kill Tories now on the back of his jacket - not so admirable

The SWP are a joke, a caricature of themselves. 

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Two?

Im not saying that it's not a thing. I'm saying it's fairly anonymous. It gets press far above its presence deserves. Its more a USA thing than UK. There are more organisations trying to monopolise on the name for their own purposes. There's more anti Antifa groups than Antifa groups. 

3, North London, London and South London.

How many do you want in London? Only room for 2 more. East and West. Combined following of over 30k. UKIP only has 200k nationwide. 

It's crazy you deny they exist in any numbers. 

[NottsRam77]

21 hours ago, Paul71 said:

Perhaps had it been at the last election i may have i cant be sure.

Its a hypothetical question without all the facts to judge on. Bit like asking me to rate a film without seeing it.

This time round i don't think so no though.

Oh I know it’s all ifs, buts and maybes 

was just curious 

tbh there was only ever going to be one outcome once corbyn had turned his back on the brexit issue 

those northern communities that have been staunch labour for god knows how long like blyth and Stoke on Trent  all voted overwhelmingly to leave in the referendum  ... once Corbyn basically said my stance on brexit is to fanny around for another 2-3 years being “open minded” 

that was it, good night Vienna 

[GB SPORTS]

9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

The SWP are a joke, a caricature of themselves. 

Yes and I bet there ain't many actual workers in the SWP.

[Angry Ram]

13 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Two?

Im not saying that it's not a thing. I'm saying it's fairly anonymous. It gets press far above its presence deserves. Its more a USA thing than UK. There are more organisations trying to monopolise on the name for their own purposes. There's more anti Antifa groups than Antifa groups. 

Yet if it was the EDL, oh the indignation.

[GboroRam]

8 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said:

Yes and I bet there ain't many actual workers in the SWP.

Only because there aren't many actual people in the SWP. 

[GboroRam]

10 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Yet if it was the EDL, oh the indignation.

Maybe you are right, but I don't see the SWP as anything more than a group of meaningless idiots. Maybe you view Antifa like I view the organised far right, and you view the organised far right like I view Antifa. Who's right? Maybe both, maybe neither, maybe something in the middle. 

[Norman]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Maybe you are right, but I don't see the SWP as anything more than a group of meaningless idiots. Maybe you view Antifa like I view the organised far right, and you view the organised far right like I view Antifa. Who's right? Maybe both, maybe neither, maybe something in the middle. 

I'm pretty sure @Angry Ram condemns the far right.

And I'm pretty sure he doesn't put his head in the sand when he questions their existance. 

[Norman]

Diane Abbott is 100/1 for next Labour Party leader. 

She says she has worked out she is now favourite. 

[King Kevin]

Just now, Norman said:

Diane Abbott is 100/1 for next Labour Party leader. 

She says she has worked out she is now favourite. 

Hope she gets it keep Labour un electable for a few years .They are probably daft enough to do it they didn't get Corbyn was part of the problem.

[uttoxram75]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Now I know you are not one that will hide from debate and will answer respectfully even if you disagree with my view, so I will put the below to you. 

Your story above shows how people stick up for their close friends against racism. If you believe Boris is racist, how does this reconcile with him having Javid and Patel in his cabinet? Do you not think they would have something to say about him being a racist?

Ok, let's assume Johnson is a racist and you see Corbyn as the better option. How would you feel about Corbyn having Dianne Abbot as Home Secretary given her past racist comments?

I have no idea what Javid and Patel think of Johnson. I can only assume that in personal relationships he does not display his racism. When Johnson talks of piccaninies and watermelon smiles he is racist, pure and simple, he probably doesn't think so because its ingrained in him but I would hope most people find those words objectionable when talking about black people.

I was only vaguely aware of Abbot's racist tweets but I have looked them up to refresh my ageing memory...she did make a racist remark stereotyping all whites as divisive, basically saying all white people are racist. She was publicly reprimanded by Ed Miliband at the time, she apologised and took down her tweets. She would probably have made a poor Home Secretary imo even without the tweets.

Johnson, I don't believe, has not made any apologies for his many racist comments over the years. 

Anyway, its a good time to take a rest from the politics until after Christmas when we can really get down to moaning about another five years of privatisations, austerity for the less well off, poorer public services and less regulation on how much pesticides we consume!

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Very good article in today's Guardian about the failure or Labour, Corbyn and the hard left;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party

I'm not sure Momentum or lefties trapped in their social media bubble will accept the obvious though - which is bad for all of us, we need a strong, sane opposition. 

What's more concerning is how JC has not resigned yet. Staying until a like for like can be installed. Utterly terrifying to be quite frank and indicates that we had a lucky escape. Imagine how him and Labour would have behaved if they got in. 

He needs to go. Antifa need to be designated a terrorist organisation and activists need to do some quite reflection. 

edit: To add to that beware of those who were once the closest to JC, now reigning and distancing themselves from him.They are gunning for the leadership. McDonnell must be stopped at all costs. Are you guys seriously going to just double down? 

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

Diane Abbott is 100/1 for next Labour Party leader. 

She says she has worked out she is now favourite. 

If carlsberg and all that