The Politics Thread 2019

[Stive Pesley]

15 minutes ago, maxjam said:

If the Tories get in with a majority at the next election, hopefully they will have the determination to actually follow through. 

But how though - it's all lip service. Most of the people Boris Johnson is talking about there are those who come as tourists and then just stay. No "controlled immigration" system can deal with that unless you go into total NK lock down and kill the tourist industry or you create Theresa May's "hostile environment" and triple the number of detention centres

[Rev]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

At the date of the Referendum I was a 'Leave at all costs' voter.

In hindsight now I think my position should have been a 'Remain if the EU reforms'.

 

I'm of a similar viewpoint, voted leave because however you dress it up the way the EU conducts it's affairs is far from democratic and open.

When I read reports of MEP's having to sign NDA's and being searched for writing and recording equipment before being allowed merely to view the draft of the biggest trade deal in history, that's simply not right.

You'd think reform of the EU would be high on the agenda of other countries too, but it seems not. Merkel certainly enjoyed Cameron playing bad cop when it came to the last EU budget settlement, driving down the amount the EU wanted, but gave him nothing in return when it came to reform.

Now the EU are requesting an above inflation rise in the next funding round, despite probably losing a large net contribution from the UK, perhaps she regrets her earlier lack of support for reform.

Yet despite all that, if we could go back in time I'd vote remain. It's simply not been worth the division and paralysis in domestic politics since.

Which may of course have been the plan of the EU, supported by sections of the British political system ever since the vote.

[Angry Ram]

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

Yeah, cos you don't ducking read, do you? 

You lost the debate on the poster, then brought up Hitler. Just read. It saves me having to type another post out. 

What a waste of time. I'd put you on block, not because of your views or your points.

But the fact you don't ducking read what is written. 

How are you so sure I don't read? How are you so sure you have the right to proclaim who won and lost the debate? You seem to be very sure on points you have no ability to judge upon - again!

To precis, someone suggested the Farage poster was not racist, I disagreed (not the only one - Farage was reporting to the Met Police for it, one journalist described it as the visual equivalent of the 'rivers of blood' speech). But then, apparently, we were told you just dilute the word racist if you suggest anyone less than ebony is a different race to you - Syrian seems to not be quite ethnically diverse enough to qualify.

You then suggest I am somehow defeated, before claiming that Labour is riddled with anti-semites - somewhat typical of your polarisation of most topics. And then, when you've been bitch slapped around the forum for the umpteenth time your only resort is to tell me that I don't read and I don't get it. Well I do get it, I just don't get it in the way either you get it or the way you want me to get it. Be very clear, I could not care less what you think - primarily because you are nothing more than an icon on a web page to me. Behind that is someone who I wish no ill, but I think we can both agree we're pretty much wasting each other's time trying to have anywhere near a sensible debate. I'll leave you to wallow in the opinion that's all my fault - it bothers me not.

[Angry Ram]

Hark at her., Bitch slapped.. Really?

[i-Ram]

Been a pretty desperate day on this thread today. Found myself wanting to listen to what some politicians have to say.

[Norman]

56 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

How are you so sure I don't read? How are you so sure you have the right to proclaim who won and lost the debate? You seem to be very sure on points you have no ability to judge upon - again!

To precis, someone suggested the Farage poster was not racist, I disagreed (not the only one - Farage was reporting to the Met Police for it, one journalist described it as the visual equivalent of the 'rivers of blood' speech). But then, apparently, we were told you just dilute the word racist if you suggest anyone less than ebony is a different race to you - Syrian seems to not be quite ethnically diverse enough to qualify.

You then suggest I am somehow defeated, before claiming that Labour is riddled with anti-semites - somewhat typical of your polarisation of most topics. And then, when you've been bitch slapped around the forum for the umpteenth time your only resort is to tell me that I don't read and I don't get it. Well I do get it, I just don't get it in the way either you get it or the way you want me to get it. Be very clear, I could not care less what you think - primarily because you are nothing more than an icon on a web page to me. Behind that is someone who I wish no ill, but I think we can both agree we're pretty much wasting each other's time trying to have anywhere near a sensible debate. I'll leave you to wallow in the opinion that's all my fault - it bothers me not.

Mate, you have issues. If I was to guess, I would say you didn't like the way the thread was going. So you charged in. And that didn't go to plan either. 

Then you had a hissy fit and started blocking people, jumping in where you had not read properly and resorted to racism and Hitler. 

Well done you. Fine 3 pages of utter poo. 

As only 1 person has even bothered to respond to all of my points that I was asked to express, I would take that as not being bitch slapped around. You haven't done it anyway. And let's be honest, you've tried your best. 

I also expressed my view as an opinion. Not as a fact. So you probably didn't read that very well either. 

The polarised views I have posted over the last few days is just pushing back on what many on here do the other way round. Obviously you don't like it, but presumably enjoy it when it's the other way round. 

We arent going to be Internet friends. I can just tell. 

[ariotofmyown]

27 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Been a pretty desperate day on this thread today. Found myself wanting to listen to what some politicians have to say.

Have a read of this. Ok, it's in the Guardian but the author is a Tory voter and a former Telegraph and Mail columnist.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/18/boris-johnson-lying-media

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

At the date of the Referendum I was a 'Leave at all costs' voter.

In hindsight now I think my position should have been a 'Remain if the EU reforms'.

 

What changed your view? 

[RamNut]

That there leader of the Liberal Democrat’s has got big knockers.

[ariotofmyown]

8 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

What changed your view? 

Turned out that bus thing wasn't true

[Van der MoodHoover]

8 hours ago, RamNut said:

That there leader of the Liberal Democrat’s has got big knockers.

Well Boris for one is a fierce critic..........?

[Sith Happens]

8 hours ago, RamNut said:

That there leader of the Liberal Democrat’s has got big knockers.

Well in that case she should be on the live debate, would offer up good balance considering she would be up against a couple of giant tits.

[G STAR RAM]

10 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

What changed your view? 

Cant say there is any one thing.

And to be honest, its probably for completely the wrong reasons.

I still think leaving is the right thing to do but remaining, with reforms, would have been tolerable and not see the massive divisions that the vote has led to.

[maxjam]

10 hours ago, RamNut said:

That there leader of the Liberal Democrat’s has got big knockers.

Maybe she should be getting people to focus on her assets rather than her personality - cos thats not going down very well ?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/13a76a62-0a3c-11ea-96a6-b8ef146759ed

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, Paul71 said:

Well in that case she should be on the live debate, would offer up good balance considering she would be up against a couple of giant tits.

Any head to head debate between Johnson, Corbyn and Swinson should be interesting.

Johnson will be saying that Corbyn wants to frustrate Brexit and Swinson will be saying he wants to enable it. Schrodingers Brexit anyone?

In the face of such blatant contradictory lunacy, Corbyn's message that he wants to negotiate a new deal and then put it back to the people - trusting them to choose - with no pressure from government to vote either way will seem the very voice of reason. The other two positions (unilaterally revoke and leave at any cost are both extreme and dangerous)

[BaaLocks]

35 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Any head to head debate between Johnson, Corbyn and Swinson should be interesting.

Johnson will be saying that Corbyn wants to frustrate Brexit and Swinson will be saying he wants to enable it. Schrodingers Brexit anyone?

In the face of such blatant contradictory lunacy, Corbyn's message that he wants to negotiate a new deal and then put it back to the people - trusting them to choose - with no pressure from government to vote either way will seem the very voice of reason. The other two positions (unilaterally revoke and leave at any cost are both extreme and dangerous)

I think most sensible people would agree that after 3.5 years since the referendum, and another few months of negotiating to get a final deal absolutely in place, it is a fair and reasonable thing to do to then take it back to the people for final approval. It's not an undoing of what has been agreed, it's a recognition that too much has passed since, opinions have moved and the country has changed (not less than we are now at least two elections on).

And any reasonable person should be able to understand that, unless they fear it may bring an undoing of what went before - which they shouldn't btw, weren't we all great believers in letting the people speak, democracy must prevail and all that.

The problem is that to get that you have to accept Corbyn and most people do not want to do that. Their election claims to date do little to assuage any fears from the general populus that a Labour government comes with potentially more disruption and upheaval than even Brexit could offer. The first polls suggest a significant Conservative majority anyway so I do think the writing is pretty much on the wall. Then, in a few years, all the people who voted for it can find someone else to blame as to why it didn't quite go the way they think they voted for it to be - with a very real risk that someone like Farage or Mogg will fill that power vacuum with a tirade of bile and hate against the obvious candidates.

It's a very sad day when you lose faith in your political system - May followed by Johnson has done that for me. We are in darker times now than even at the height of The Witch, and I genuinely fear for where we will be ten years further down the road.

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

The first polls suggest a significant Conservative majority anyway so I do think the writing is pretty much on the wall

If this does indeed come to pass then the best we can hope for is that the people in charge and the people who put them there absolutely own all of the fall-out. Because a Tory majority and a hard Brexit are going to do nothing to reverse the growing inequality and neoliberal politcial corruption that led to this sorry mess

[Wolfie]

5 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I think most sensible people would agree that after 3.5 years since the referendum, and another few months of negotiating to get a final deal absolutely in place, it is a fair and reasonable thing to do to then take it back to the people for final approval. It's not an undoing of what has been agreed, it's a recognition that too much has passed since, opinions have moved and the country has changed (not less than we are now at least two elections on).

And any reasonable person should be able to understand that, unless they fear it may bring an undoing of what went before - which they shouldn't btw, weren't we all great believers in letting the people speak, democracy must prevail and all that.

 

Why do you insist on painting anyone who doesn't agree with you as neither sensible nor reasonable?.

I happen to be both.

Putting aside the "lets negotiate a deal and then campaign against it" thing, we already have a final deal in place and, though obviously a compromise, at least looks a bit like a Brexit that IMO most Leave voters could accept.

Labour's deal would be so soft that their referendum choice would be Remain vs Might as well Remain

[G STAR RAM]

11 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

Why do you insist on painting anyone who doesn't agree with you as neither sensible nor reasonable?.

I happen to be both.

Putting aside the "lets negotiate a deal and then campaign against it" thing, we already have a final deal in place and, though obviously a compromise, at least looks a bit like a Brexit that IMO most Leave voters could accept.

Labour's deal would be so soft that their referendum choice would be Remain vs Might as well Remain

Most reasonable and sensible people accept the results of Referendums.