The Politics Thread 2019

[BaaLocks]

34 minutes ago, Norman said:

If all else fails. Call racism.

Can't answer questions on politics? Racism

Don't like progressive ideas like free broadband? Racism

Don't like the current Labour Party? Racism

Like Brexit? Racism

Don't want public services and infrastructure completely crippled? Racism

Vote Conservative because there is very little option? Tory boy, racist, NHS ruining, Cameron apologising, war backing, knuckle dragging racist.

Wow - you've got some voices in your head haven't you? The poster is, in my view, racist - you and other Conservatives (or Brexit voters, but we can't conflate the two, can we?) might be, you might not be. I haven't offered a word of suggestion on that but go ahead and infer it if you want.

Dave Prentis, leader of Unison, reported the poster to the Metropolitan Police for racism and while no one was convicted over it I agree with him. Wanting to shore up our borders to restrict refugees, I repeat refugees, from any country other than our access to a safe haven is racist. You might not agree, tis your choice, but to me it's racism.

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

The one constant about this thread is I get the feeling that not one individual's attitudes/views have changed one bit since 2016.

No one gets persuaded. 

Ground Hog Day.

Well, I guess we can say we are at least all consistent.???

 

At the date of the Referendum I was a 'Leave at all costs' voter.

In hindsight now I think my position should have been a 'Remain if the EU reforms'.

 

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Or are you all anti-semantic too!

Anti-semantic? I literally laughed out loud at that.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Wow - you've got some voices in your head haven't you? The poster is, in my view, racist - you and other Conservatives (or Brexit voters, but we can't conflate the two, can we?) might be, you might not be. I haven't offered a word of suggestion on that but go ahead and infer it if you want.

Dave Prentis, leader of Unison, reported the poster to the Metropolitan Police for racism and while no one was convicted over it I agree with him. Wanting to shore up our borders to restrict refugees, I repeat refugees, from any country other than our access to a safe haven is racist. You might not agree, tis your choice, but to me it's racism.

Everyone is entitled to their own view.

You haven't explained what is racist about it though?

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Dave Prentis, leader of Unison, reported the poster to the Metropolitan Police for racism and while no one was convicted over it I agree with him. Wanting to shore up our borders to restrict refugees, I repeat refugees, from any country other than our access to a safe haven is racist. You might not agree, tis your choice, but to me it's racism.

Sorry, just read that you have explained why you think it is racist.

Not a dig, but think you may actually want to research what the term racism means because I can not in any way relate it to what you have said.

You are literally implying that white people wanting to stop other white people from coming to our country is racists, surely you can see that makes no sense?

[BaaLocks]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Everyone is entitled to their own view.

You haven't explained what is racist about it though?

But I have.

[Norman]

8 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Wow - you've got some voices in your head haven't you? The poster is, in my view, racist - you and other Conservatives (or Brexit voters, but we can't conflate the two, can we?) might be, you might not be. I haven't offered a word of suggestion on that but go ahead and infer it if you want.

Dave Prentis, leader of Unison, reported the poster to the Metropolitan Police for racism and while no one was convicted over it I agree with him. Wanting to shore up our borders to restrict refugees, I repeat refugees, from any country other than our access to a safe haven is racist. You might not agree, tis your choice, but to me it's racism.

You're strange. I wasn't even talking about you. I don't even know if you've posted much in this thread before. 

I haven't talked about the poster either. 

When did refugees come into it? I want controlled immigration.

You can't call someone racist for wanting controlled immigration to protect services that are failing. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

How long would the refugees need to be in the EU before they could get citizenship here and then legally move between countries?

Depends on the laws of the individual nations - it's 8 years in Germany and 10 in Italy, for example. But time resident in a country is not the only stipulation. In France, for example, the applicant has to demonstrate integration into French society.

Long term resident status is easier to acquire and gives a refugee the same rights (including free movement). The UK is exempt from this and has the right to deny entry to a non-EU national who has long-term resident status in, say France.

The EU has never been able to force refugees on us. Farage, of course, would have known this as he was presenting his 'Breaking Point' poster campaign.

[BaaLocks]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry, just read that you have explained why you think it is racist.

Not a dig, but think you may actually want to research what the term racism means because I can not in any way relate it to what you have said.

You are literally implying that white people wanting to stop other white people from coming to our country is racists, surely you can see that makes no sense?

And by your logic Hitler wasn't actually racist as Jews are white skinned? Boom!

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Depends on the laws of the individual nations - it's 8 years in Germany and 10 in Italy, for example. But time resident in a country is not the only stipulation. In France, for example, the applicant has to demonstrate integration into French society.

Long term resident status is easier to acquire and gives a refugee the same rights (including free movement). The UK is exempt from this and has the right to deny entry to a non-EU national who has long-term resident status in, say France.

The EU has never been able to force refugees on us. Farage, of course, would have known this as he was presenting his 'Breaking Point' poster campaign.

But Labour would allow it. So, again, we are back to controlled immigration. 

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

And by your logic Hitler wasn't actually racist as Jews are white skinned? Boom!

Judaism is a religion not a race?

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Controlled immigration is 'something we should try instead' of course its not the answer that people accept so it will have to be said again in a couple of pages. 

I'm allowed to not accept the idea of some woolly "controlled immigration" argument - just as much as you are allowed to say it

I'm also allowed to challenge you on it. It's not my problem that you don't like that and take on some sort of forlorn victim status. "Why am I being held to account for my views? Why are you trying to close down the debate and deny me my voice!!?"

Quote

Explain how having an extra 300k people arriving in the UK next year won't put additional stress on the NHS, education, policing, etc.

I didn't say it wouldn't. The problem is in systemic long term under-funding of public services. We know the rate of population growth and we should make sure that public services are adequately provisioned.

The term "controlled immigration" makes it sound like we don't already have control. What you actually mean is higher control of immigration. Care to elaborate on what such a higher level of controlled immigration would look like? Choose your words carefully though - you wouldn't want to sound like a racist I know

[1of4]

Ok lets talk real politics. Where shall we start ? Funding the NHS, that is now given less per head of the population than ten years ago. Education, the shortage of teaching staff and the schools poor state of repair, due to this tory government's austerity programme. The increase in child poverty caused by the same  austerity programme. Maybe start with something that a number of peoplehave concerns about.  Immigration numbers, something the tories have promised to reduce in their last three manifestos and have done nothing about it during their nine years in government. 

[Norman]

14 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Ok lets talk real politics. Where shall we start ? Funding the NHS, that is now given less per head of the population than ten years ago. Education, the shortage of teaching staff and the schools poor state of repair, due to this tory government's austerity programme. The increase in child poverty caused by the same  austerity programme. Maybe start with something that a number of peoplehave concerns about.  Immigration numbers, something the tories have promised to reduce in their last three manifestos and have done nothing about it during their nine years in government. 

Bit hard to follow your manifesto through with no, or tiny majority. As we have seen with Brexit. 

Funding in the NHS is at an all time high, but yet per head it is less. I wonder why. Maybe the population is going up faster than we can afford to let it, both by infrastructure and money? 

The years of austerity. Wonder why we had them? If only we could get all that gold back. 

[maxjam]

15 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I'm allowed to not accept the idea of some woolly "controlled immigration" argument - just as much as you are allowed to say it

I'm also allowed to challenge you on it. It's not my problem that you don't like that and take on some sort of forlorn victim status. "Why am I being held to account for my views? Why are you trying to close down the debate and deny me my voice!!?"

You'll have to point out to me the posts in which I portray 'some sort of forlorn victim status' or moaned about being held account for my views.  I have never tried to close down debate.  I am tried of 'my side' of the argument continually having to defend themselves from underhand accusations of racism however despite repeatedly stating immigration isn't the problem, uncontrolled immigration is.

 

15 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

The term "controlled immigration" makes it sound like we don't already have control. What you actually mean is higher control of immigration. Care to elaborate on what such a higher level of controlled immigration would look like? Choose your words carefully though - you wouldn't want to sound like a racist I know

Its comments like your final sentence that lead me to believe that you don't really care for my answer.  IMO you're very adept at avoiding answers youself whilst flipping the question back to whoever you're talking to.  You brushed off my question with a couple of short sentence answers but ask me to elaborate mine ?

I posted this over the weekend;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/19/tony-blair-admits-did-not-realise-many-migrants-would-come-uk/

How can we possibly plan adequately for the future we even Tony Blair didn't realise how many people would come to the UK?

With regards to controlling migration the Tories have put forwards a new immigration policiy which is a start.  I'll choose my words carefully and leave it at that.

[Norman]

28 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I'm allowed to not accept the idea of some woolly "controlled immigration" argument - just as much as you are allowed to say it

I'm also allowed to challenge you on it. It's not my problem that you don't like that and take on some sort of forlorn victim status. "Why am I being held to account for my views? Why are you trying to close down the debate and deny me my voice!!?"

I didn't say it wouldn't. The problem is in systemic long term under-funding of public services. We know the rate of population growth and we should make sure that public services are adequately provisioned.

The term "controlled immigration" makes it sound like we don't already have control. What you actually mean is higher control of immigration. Care to elaborate on what such a higher level of controlled immigration would look like? Choose your words carefully though - you wouldn't want to sound like a racist I know

Actually it isn't. Blair stealthily introduced free movement. Hard to plan for something you can't see coming. 

The rest is such a poo argument. You can't just say we should be able to take on a city the size of Newcastle a year, and have enough money and resources to build brand new prisons, roads, rails, hospitals etc. 

It costs far more than what you collect in taxes from 300,000 people. 

 

[Norman]

44 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Judaism is a religion not a race?

Good ducking job too. Wouldn't want the most racist party in history getting in power if that was the case. 

[Sith Happens]

36 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Ok lets talk real politics. Where shall we start ? Funding the NHS, that is now given less per head of the population than ten years ago. Education, the shortage of teaching staff and the schools poor state of repair, due to this tory government's austerity programme. The increase in child poverty caused by the same  austerity programme. Maybe start with something that a number of peoplehave concerns about.  Immigration numbers, something the tories have promised to reduce in their last three manifestos and have done nothing about it during their nine years in government. 

 

18 minutes ago, Norman said:

Bit hard to follow your manifesto through with no, or tiny majority. As we have seen with Brexit. 

Funding in the NHS is at an all time high, but yet per head it is less. I wonder why. Maybe the population is going up faster than we can afford to let it, both by infrastructure and money? 

The years of austerity. Wonder why we had them? If only we could get all that gold back. 

Austerity.

Why did we have it?

What was the alternative to Austerity?

Whatever the alternative was can anyone prove it would have worked better than the measures introduced?

 

[cstand]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

At the date of the Referendum I was a 'Leave at all costs' voter.

In hindsight now I think my position should have been a 'Remain if the EU reforms'.

 

Most people would remain in the EU if they listened to people's concerns and reformed I know I would but there no chance of that happening unfortunately.

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Judaism is a religion not a race?

According to UNESCO, the terms xenophobia and racism often overlap, but differ in how the latter encompasses prejudice based on physical characteristics while the former is generally centered on behavior based on the notion of a specified people being adverse to the culture or nation.  Both are disgusting.

why are you so carefully ringfencing the word racist?