uttoxram75 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Norman said: If you think over the next 4 years, letting in another 1.2 million is a good idea for the NHS then that is project stupidity. I don't care about past governments. It's gone. I vote on the her and now. If you think the NHS will be privatised it will be because we have run out of funding. And that funding will run out because the infrastructure needed for such vast numbers costs too much and takes too long to implement. The fastest way to privatise the NHS is Corbyn. He would wreck it. I didn't vote for Cameron. If you think the Labour Party don't make changes to what they have stated, then you must have had your head in the sand for the last 3 and a half years. Let us not forget which party has privatised the most of the NHS as well.. So you agree that privatising the NHS is a bad thing? Me and you are brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Norman said: Do you genuinely believe the other post. I think a very small minority do. Which was my point. The other post said many. You said most. Many, probably tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, support brexit for racist reasons in my opinion. Of the 17 million votes, a small minority but a large number of people. The British left will get millions of votes, and you think more than half are extreme left wing "SJW"s. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 17 hours ago, Norman said: Plus the hypocrisy of Labour voters who voted remain saying Brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for. Economical suicide they said. But are willling to vote a Labour manifesto in that has more holes than a colander. Can anyone, for the fourth time, answer me what laws Labour are going to changed so companies acting perfectly lawfully, such as Amazon and Google, are going to pay more tax? And how that will affect other inward investment? Because you can't vote for something you can't understand. That's what people have been telling the likes of me @G STAR RAM, @Angry Ram etc for years. It's just ********. Any chance you could forward me all the replies by private message? I cant see any responses so guessing all the posters that have replied must have me on ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, GboroRam said: The other post said many. You said most. Many, probably tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, support brexit for racist reasons in my opinion. Of the 17 million votes, a small minority but a large number of people. The British left will get millions of votes, and you think more than half are extreme left wing "SJW"s. Really? Any chance you could explain what Brexit has to do with racism please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Any chance you could forward me all the replies by private message? I cant see any responses so guessing all the posters that have replied must have me on ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 For the few that think that the tories will not sell off the NHS, here are some actual facts. Lets ignore the fact that the government spend less per person on healthcare, now than under Blair. We where 2nd in Europe, now about 5th or 6th. There are 100,000 jobs going in the NHS, with no cash to fill them. There is a Doctor and Nurse shortage, which through lack of investment in the last 10 years, a lot getting to retirement age and unique tax implications for specialist Doctors, this is getting worse. Blood Plasma: To protect the quality of the blood product, David Owen, as health secretary in 1975, took blood plasma collection into public ownership as Plasma Resources UK. But Jeremy Hunt, as health secretary, sold that off for £200m to a US private equity firm, Bain Capital, while Britain kept a 20% stake. Co-founded by Mitt Romney in 1984, Bain has over the years acquired such well known health products as Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Dominos Pizza and much else. Protesters, David Owen among them, warned that the company had a predatory reputation for asset stripping, but Bain promised it would develop the company into a “life sciences champion” in Hertfordshire. Instead, it sold it on to a Chinese company in 2016 for £820m. No money for Nurses: A survey by the Health Service Journal, working from its own FoI requests, finds 93% of NHS trusts are falling short, with nearly half lacking 10% of the nurses they need: that’s three times more than five years ago. Nurses are being substituted with untrained assistants. Lets look at the people who need the NHS. The Trussell Trust is the largest food bank network in the UK, and it handed out around 41,000 food packs in 2009/10 compared to 1.2 million in 2016/17. A&E waiting times are at the worst since the measure started in 2004. Target 95% treated, discharged, admitted or resolved within 4 hours. Actual is 75%, but hey, it's only 20%, just hope it's not you, just let the department know you voted brexit and are happy to wait more than 4 hours, because you can take the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, McRamFan said: For the few that think that the tories will not sell off the NHS, here are some actual facts. Lets ignore the fact that the government spend less per person on healthcare, now than under Blair. We where 2nd in Europe, now about 5th or 6th. There are 100,000 jobs going in the NHS, with no cash to fill them. There is a Doctor and Nurse shortage, which through lack of investment in the last 10 years, a lot getting to retirement age and unique tax implications for specialist Doctors, this is getting worse. Blood Plasma: To protect the quality of the blood product, David Owen, as health secretary in 1975, took blood plasma collection into public ownership as Plasma Resources UK. But Jeremy Hunt, as health secretary, sold that off for £200m to a US private equity firm, Bain Capital, while Britain kept a 20% stake. Co-founded by Mitt Romney in 1984, Bain has over the years acquired such well known health products as Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, Dominos Pizza and much else. Protesters, David Owen among them, warned that the company had a predatory reputation for asset stripping, but Bain promised it would develop the company into a “life sciences champion” in Hertfordshire. Instead, it sold it on to a Chinese company in 2016 for £820m. No money for Nurses: A survey by the Health Service Journal, working from its own FoI requests, finds 93% of NHS trusts are falling short, with nearly half lacking 10% of the nurses they need: that’s three times more than five years ago. Nurses are being substituted with untrained assistants. Lets look at the people who need the NHS. The Trussell Trust is the largest food bank network in the UK, and it handed out around 41,000 food packs in 2009/10 compared to 1.2 million in 2016/17. A&E waiting times are at the worst since the measure started in 2004. Target 95% treated, discharged, admitted or resolved within 4 hours. Actual is 75%, but hey, it's only 20%, just hope it's not you, just let the department know you voted brexit and are happy to wait more than 4 hours, because you can take the pain. Very nice. Which part of that is an argument for saying the NHS will be sold off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Children in Need got me thinking - if Labour (or Conservatives for that matter) had wanted to win this election they could have done it with one simple policy. Reformat taxation to allow people to spend their taxes on what they want to spend them on. Example: minimum tax rate is 23% at the moment. Most of that stays as is, that needs to pay for armies, base education and healthcare, all the other stuff that would probably drive us crazy if we really knew where it went. But that's the cost of running a country. Current high rate tax is 40%. Raise it to 50% but you get to say where half of that goes (within reason). So you want to use it subsiding public transport, broadband, NHS, education, foreign aid then you can do that. And in a modern world you can do all of that through some sort of crowd funding website - which means that you have, for example, 15% of your tax that you get to say where it goes, the other 35% is normal taxation. For lower tax rates maybe 5% can be allocated? I guess the point being it shouldn't be something just for high rate earners. I don't so much have a problem paying tax I just have a problem not knowing what I pay tax on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 The rise of racism. Could quote a few posts from this forum, however they got removed, no idea why... https://www.opinium.co.uk/racism-rising-since-brexit-vote/ Even in little old wales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48692863 Ch4 ran a goodun https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/08/vote-leave-racism-brexit-uncivil-war-channel-4 https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3011070/racism-rise-uk-brexit-vote-study-reveals Don't click on this one, especially if you struggle with empirical data. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2019.1599134 Even teachers are failing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/racism-brexit-school-eastern-europe-teachers-referendum-vote-a9073636.html Even the Torygraph is reporting on it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/28/subjected-racism-since-brexit-rest-career-altogether-former/ More empirical data, stay away if facts frighten you... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0214-5 So nope, no spike in racism since the brexit vote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, bcnram said: Very nice. Which part of that is an argument for saying the NHS will be sold off? Not my fault you cannot read...it's already started. Go use a search engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, McRamFan said: Not my fault you cannot read...it's already started. Go use a search engine. You are an amusing if slightly angry with life person. Try to chill a bit, you can probably even get pills for it on the NHS to help you. Not sure you can get a pill for only ever answering a question with another statement though. Keep the Faith!!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 19 hours ago, Norman said: Plus the hypocrisy of Labour voters who voted remain saying Brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for. Economical suicide they said. But are willling to vote a Labour manifesto in that has more holes than a colander. Can anyone, for the fourth time, answer me what laws Labour are going to changed so companies acting perfectly lawfully, such as Amazon and Google, are going to pay more tax? And how that will affect other inward investment? Because you can't vote for something you can't understand. That's what people have been telling the likes of me @G STAR RAM, @Angry Ram etc for years. It's just ********. Johnson wants the deal to go through, Farage says the agreed deal will destroy what we fought for. Yet everyone knows what we voted for? Love the way you write off the Labour manifesto when it hasn't even been published. If you're referring to the Labour position on Brexit it is blindingly simple - negotiate the best deal for the UK then put it back to the people to accept or reject. As for Amazon or Google - I hear you, if any party stepped up and clarified their position on that then I would applaud them. I am far from a Corbyn fan and I think some of his suggestions (broadband) are nearing electoral stupidity. But I do get the point on Brexit - but, and it pains me to say it, I do understand that most people will say that Labour under Corbyn is too big a price to pay. What I do hope everyone realises after this election is that the referendum is dead - and I'm referring to the first one. Bog locks to what 17.4m (or 16.8m) voted for, we will have had two elections after that, both of which have allowed people to support the party that they think best supports their intentions. This ridiculous notion that we are going to eternally support the outcome of one vote in 2016 while ignoring two that followed it is worthy of nothing more than the bin - move on and get back to what this country is built around, party politics. I don't say that as a remainer or leaver, I say it as a pure rationalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, McRamFan said: The rise of racism. Could quote a few posts from this forum, however they got removed, no idea why... https://www.opinium.co.uk/racism-rising-since-brexit-vote/ Even in little old wales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48692863 Ch4 ran a goodun https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/08/vote-leave-racism-brexit-uncivil-war-channel-4 https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3011070/racism-rise-uk-brexit-vote-study-reveals Don't click on this one, especially if you struggle with empirical data. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2019.1599134 Even teachers are failing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/racism-brexit-school-eastern-europe-teachers-referendum-vote-a9073636.html Even the Torygraph is reporting on it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/28/subjected-racism-since-brexit-rest-career-altogether-former/ More empirical data, stay away if facts frighten you... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0214-5 So nope, no spike in racism since the brexit vote... All excellent links I'm sure but, without reading them, I can be pretty sure none of them prove that "Many, probably tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, support brexit for racist reasons" So I will ask again, what has Brexit got to do with racism? Arent we the same race as most Europeans? Were us Leave voters racist against our own race? A race is defined as a group of people that share physical and social qualities, and let's not forget I am lying when I say I can easily identify Eastern Europeans. What some people call a spike in racism, I choose to look at as a redefining racism. I'm pretty sure 10 years ago, calling for controlled immigration wasnt classed as racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Any chance you could forward me all the replies by private message? I cant see any responses so guessing all the posters that have replied must have me on ignore. Sorry, mate. Only had one on the NHS. Which was to be expected. About to ask another question, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 23 minutes ago, bcnram said: You are an amusing if slightly angry with life person. Try to chill a bit, you can probably even get pills for it on the NHS to help you. Not sure you can get a pill for only ever answering a question with another statement though. Keep the Faith!!! ? Quite happy with life. Just do not suffer fools gladly. By the way that is a statement, only a fool would take it personally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: The other post said many. You said most. Many, probably tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people, support brexit for racist reasons in my opinion. Of the 17 million votes, a small minority but a large number of people. The British left will get millions of votes, and you think more than half are extreme left wing "SJW"s. Really? I was making a point about stereotyping politics. Obviously I do not think that. I was fishing for the answer to all questions....if the left are losing the debate, they shout racism. And here it is. Do you have evidence for this mass racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Norman said: Sorry, mate. Only had one on the NHS. Which was to be expected. About to ask another question, though. Is it... "Can anyone give me any actual benefits arising from Brexit?" Not seen that one for a couple of pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, McRamFan said: The rise of racism. Could quote a few posts from this forum, however they got removed, no idea why... https://www.opinium.co.uk/racism-rising-since-brexit-vote/ Even in little old wales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48692863 Ch4 ran a goodun https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/08/vote-leave-racism-brexit-uncivil-war-channel-4 https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3011070/racism-rise-uk-brexit-vote-study-reveals Don't click on this one, especially if you struggle with empirical data. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2019.1599134 Even teachers are failing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/racism-brexit-school-eastern-europe-teachers-referendum-vote-a9073636.html Even the Torygraph is reporting on it. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/28/subjected-racism-since-brexit-rest-career-altogether-former/ More empirical data, stay away if facts frighten you... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0214-5 So nope, no spike in racism since the brexit vote... So officially and factually, I am a Racist then? I seem to have ticked all the boxes.. Oh wait, there is only one... Voted leave. It's all my fault this whole racism thing, me and 17.4 million other thick ignorant twits. Actually I am not sure what exactly racism does mean anymore. It seems to be banded about with gay abandon to try and label people. Oh hang on I must be homophobic as well now, I've used the 'gay' word. Help me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 The debate on the NHS is interesting isn't it? Can you imagine if it didn't exist and Labour were suggesting that we introduced a 'free at the point of use' health care system? It would be unaffordable this and magic money tree that. It disappoints me how cowardly so many people are when it comes to dreaming big and wanting more for your country. No one ever questions whether we have enough money to take part in foreign wars that are none of our business, or enough money to bail out the banks, or enough money to pay the DUP to prop up the government - because all of these things have no tangible effect on us. We don't feel it. But suggest we spend some money on things that we will feel the benefit of and suddenly we're worried that it might "wreck the economy". Like that ever bothers us at any other time? As if modern monetary theory isn't even a thing? I just heard Angela Leadsom on the BBC when challenged by Nick Robinson as to how the Tories would pay for something - she said "You're assuming that money comes from somewhere". She's right. We're a sovereign state with a central bank. We print our own money as required I'd like to think that the idea of making level 1 NHS dentistry costs free would be universally popular. Clearly saves money in the long run as it's the kind of preventative maintenance that makes sense -but then I'm sure some lib-hating curmudgeon will come along to tell me how it's unaffordable and if poor people can't afford to have an annual check up then they don't deserve teeth (or something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Just now, Angry Ram said: Help me.. Let go of your insecurities and you'll be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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