WhiteHorseRam Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Take no deal off the table (DONE ✔️) Then negotiate a new deal that protects people's rights Then put that new deal back to the people in a 2nd referendum vs remain It's all about letting the people have their say (on an achievable deal) What's wrong with that? The not being in Govt is a bit of a hitch ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, rynny said: You all believe that the Tories would be able to reduce workers rights and get it through parliament? Maybe I'm just naive ?♂️ They managed to get the bedroom tax for disabled people through parliament in more sedate times. They'll dress it up as "Remainers want to keep the country uncompetitive" and their media friends will run stories about big payoffs for top civil servants or the like. Will be much easier to get through too when the economy is tanking. They won't even have to bother with all that if poorer, leaver voting areas in the midlands/north reward Johnson with a decent majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, rynny said: It's still there, maybe @David can have a look? Can’t see anything that has been removed. @Van Wolfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: Why have I had a post removed?. You know full well why … this is the 'Politics Thread', not the 'Dinner Ladies in Rubber' thread. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, McRamFan said: No I don't, however that will not stop them trying. I cannot see any party have a working majority. Look at the current situation, Johnson is a glove puppet PM, elected by less than 100k tory blue bloods, the cronies that see the working class as a commodity. He is driving the UK off a cliff, and ERG and associated disaster capitalists will all benefit, whilst the next two generations pick up the pieces. You seem to be forgetting that Remain vs Leave trumps any rational voting. I hope the opinion polls are way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Take no deal off the table (DONE ✔️) Then negotiate a new deal that protects people's rights Then put that new deal back to the people in a 2nd referendum vs remain It's all about letting the people have their say (on an achievable deal) What's wrong with that? You really need it explaining what is wrong with that? They promised to honour the result of the Referendum in their manifesto, nowhere was a new Referendum with Remain still on there mentioned. They have no right to remove no deal from the table. There are plenty of people out there that would be happy with leaving without a deal. How on earth can they be in a position to negotiate any sort of worthwhile deal when they have thrown our biggest bargaining chip in the bin. I'd have much more respect if they were honest with the Electorate and admitted they are now a full out Remain party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, David said: Can’t see anything that has been removed. @Van Wolfie It's definitely not showing on my screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: The not being in Govt is a bit of a hitch ?? Oh I see the paradox here. You don't like Corbyn because he's not in charge And you don't know what he stands for and that's bad but then he's not in charge so what does it actually matter to you what he stands for? I suppose at some point in your political hypothesis you have to accept that there can only be one prime minister at any one time, and everyone else is "the opposition"? If the opposition aren't allowed to have ideas and put those forward as an alternative then what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, G STAR RAM said: You really need it explaining what is wrong with that? They promised to honour the result of the Referendum in their manifesto, nowhere was a new Referendum with Remain still on there mentioned. They have no right to remove no deal from the table. There are plenty of people out there that would be happy with leaving without a deal. How on earth can they be in a position to negotiate any sort of worthwhile deal when they have thrown our biggest bargaining chip in the bin. I'd have much more respect if they were honest with the Electorate and admitted they are now a full out Remain party. I thought we all agreed a while back that 'no deal' was the worst bargaining chip of all time. It is bad for the EU. It is way, way badder for our merry old Isle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 56 minutes ago, rynny said: Are we really going to do away with the current working laws and regulations, just because we are leaving the EU? Short answer - yes. Long answer - you bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said: I thought we all agreed a while back that 'no deal' was the worst bargaining chip of all time. It is bad for the EU. It is way, way badder for our merry old Isle. No deal is probably the worst outcome for both sides. The thing is though, no deal is just a snapshot in time, it is not the future situation forever. No deal leads to short term pain for both sides but is something that can be overcome in the future. Just dont see why you would take it off the table, surely that hanging over your head would be an incentive for both sides to agree a reasonable deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: They promised to honour the result of the Referendum in their manifesto, nowhere was a new Referendum with Remain still on there mentioned You mean the 2017 manifesto? Probably best to not fixate on something from 2 and a half years ago. Their position has evolved as so it should, to take into consideration the fact that May's deal (at that time unknown) was crap and couldn't get through parliament. Johnson's deal is even worse and also won't get through parliament OR be agreed by the EU. The key thing in honouring the wishes of those who voted Leave in 2016 is to have the good grace to negotiate an achievable deal 5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: They have no right to remove no deal from the table. There are plenty of people out there that would be happy with leaving without a deal. I think you'll find they have every right. As our elected representatives they can see exactly how damaging a no deal Brexit would be. I trust the thousands of civil servants and official studies which predict the effects far more than I trust Ken (63) from Shirebrook who says "it'll be reet I dunna understand why they dunna just gerron witheeet" 7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: How on earth can they be in a position to negotiate any sort of worthwhile deal when they have thrown our biggest bargaining chip in the bin Simply because the EU know they are negotiating in good faith, and actually want a deal that works for all, as opposed to the Tories who were/are clearly treating it as a willy-waving competition and a disaster capitalism opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Johnson's idea of a good deal can be summed up in two words - 'Schrodinger's border'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Oh I see the paradox here. You don't like Corbyn because he's not in charge And you don't know what he stands for and that's bad but then he's not in charge so what does it actually matter to you what he stands for? I suppose at some point in your political hypothesis you have to accept that there can only be one prime minister at any one time, and everyone else is "the opposition"? If the opposition aren't allowed to have ideas and put those forward as an alternative then what's the point? No paradox - I don't like JC because he has failed as leader of the Labour party. Politics is all about clear communication and he hasn't done any. I think even without anti-Semitism, BREXIT, etc etc him not nothing anything to roll back the SNP north of the border means he can't get in mathematically. There can only be one PM at a time - and it ain't gonna be him anytime soon. ? Have a goldfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: You mean the 2017 manifesto? Probably best to not fixate on something from 2 and a half years ago. Their position has evolved as so it should, to take into consideration the fact that May's deal (at that time unknown) was crap and couldn't get through parliament. Johnson's deal is even worse and also won't get through parliament OR be agreed by the EU. The key thing in honouring the wishes of those who voted Leave in 2016 is to have the good grace to negotiate an achievable deal Why did their manifesto not mention that the Referendum would only be honoured if a deal was achieved then? The key thing to honouring the vote is to Leave the EU as specified on the ballot paper. In the event of an achievable deal not being possible, this means leaving with no deal, as set out in Article 50. I think you'll find they have every right. As our elected representatives they can see exactly how damaging a no deal Brexit would be. I trust the thousands of civil servants and official studies which predict the effects far more than I trust Ken (63) from Shirebrook who says "it'll be reet I dunna understand why they dunna just gerron witheeet" How effective have these civil servants with their official studies and predictions been in the past? What do they have to gain from not leaving the EU? These are questions I would be asking before blindly accepting what people say. Simply because the EU know they are negotiating in good faith, and actually want a deal that works for all, as opposed to the Tories who were/are clearly treating it as a willy-waving competition and a disaster capitalism opportunity. Why are they going to campaign such a good deal that works for all then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 37 minutes ago, David said: Can’t see anything that has been removed. @Van Wolfie Same, just seems odd that @Van Wolfie says when he clicks on the notification that says I've reacted to the post it doesn't go to the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said: Typical condescending style I see, but I'm amused by the irony that using Google is somehow beneath you but you are happy to quote Wikipedia to back up an argument. It appeals to the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I think the only way to resolve this is for the country to go back to the drawing board and choose one of the "off the peg" Brexits - Canada, Switzerland, May's abomination - whichever one they go for, the EU won't object if it's a deal that's been previously agreed. We obviously aren't prepared for no deal, so even trying to use it as a threat is like holding a knife to your own throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 There has been a lot of stuff on this post about the effects or not of East European migration in the city . Currently watching a programme on BBC 1 called Fugitive - one of the features is Derby. Covers the police, possible human trafficking, persistent offenders, drug addiction etc . Worth a look as there seems to be a lot of back and forth on here about this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: What do they have to gain from not leaving the EU? These are questions I would be asking before blindly accepting what people say. Turning that question round to "what do they have to gain from leaving without a deal?" and posing it to Farage, Banks, Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Odey and the other disaster capitalists would be interesting. The absolute determination to leave without a deal fills me with dread. I honestly believe these people would trash this country to line their pockets. People say Corbyn would take us back to the 1970's, these spivs would take us back to the 1870's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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