ariotofmyown Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Are there any people on here who voted Leave who are now seriously worried about their futures with a no deal/terrible deal Brexit? I'm convinced there is a large portion of non-extreme Leave voters who decided based mostly on economical rather than ideological grounds who don't just want "Brexit done" but actual want their future to be secure. We never hear from these people but I think they are key to sorting this mess out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 On 07/10/2019 at 13:28, GboroRam said: Wow. Despite the worst conditions for working people in my lifetime, despite the fact that workers have to accept zero hours contracts, that workers in places like sports direct aren't allowed toilet breaks - we're still parroting the fear of the unions? I hope you don't forget to doff your cap to the boss in the morning. You know, show you know your place. That’s a bold statement unless you are 10. Worst conditions in your lifetime, really. Workers have more protection now than they ever have. Let’s have some examples to back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 57 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: That’s a bold statement unless you are 10. Worst conditions in your lifetime, really. Workers have more protection now than they ever have. Let’s have some examples to back that up. Already had some. You have to put your hand up to go to toilet apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: That’s a bold statement unless you are 10. Worst conditions in your lifetime, really. Workers have more protection now than they ever have. Let’s have some examples to back that up. There is two levels of this I reckon. One is the law, on paper there is still some protection but a lot has been watered down like criteria for unfair dismissal, reduced payouts, anti-union laws and the like. Less audits and unannounced visits from the Health and Safety Executive which has seen a rise in workplace deaths after years of decline. The second level is the attitude of big companies, the previous negotiated agreements and protocols of paying time and a half or double time for overtime has gone, enhanced redundancy pay over the legal minimum is now rare. I can only speak for the industry I work in although I hear plenty of anecdotal evidence from other workers in both public and private sectors who back this up. I believe we are in a race to the bottom where unscrupulous employers will continue to lobby governments to degrade employment law further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 34 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Already had some. You have to put your hand up to go to toilet apparently. Its only funny if you don't have to work in that sort of environment. I don't believe its widespread but its probably more prevalent than 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Already had some. You have to put your hand up to go to toilet apparently. Usual bull poo? I skim over some posters to be fair. As an employer my hands are tied every which way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Usual bull poo? I skim over some posters to be fair. As an employer my hands are tied every which way. How do you get to ask to go to toilet then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: There is two levels of this I reckon. One is the law, on paper there is still some protection but a lot has been watered down like criteria for unfair dismissal, reduced payouts, anti-union laws and the like. Less audits and unannounced visits from the Health and Safety Executive which has seen a rise in workplace deaths after years of decline. The second level is the attitude of big companies, the previous negotiated agreements and protocols of paying time and a half or double time for overtime has gone, enhanced redundancy pay over the legal minimum is now rare. I can only speak for the industry I work in although I hear plenty of anecdotal evidence from other workers in both public and private sectors who back this up. I believe we are in a race to the bottom where unscrupulous employers will continue to lobby governments to degrade employment law further. Not denying things ain’t perfect and yes some companies don’t do the right things. But to say it’s the worst since you can remember is arse wipe stuff. So what was the point in being in the EU? I thought they protected workers rights? I have people I don’t particularly rate as employees but I cannot do anything about it. They consistently underperform but still expect bonuses and all the benefits. Real blockers in the business, don’t want this , don’t want that. Want everything. I would rather reward the people who deliver, I cannot do much about the others as they just turn up and do the bare minimum. Nothing wrong as such but contribute little. I ha r to be very careful that I say the right things and don’t upset them. They go off with stress ffs as soon as they are asked to do anything out of the normal. Some companies and I have worked for one or two are tossers. No excuse for them but if the employee knows how to play the game, they certainly can with little recourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: How do you get to ask to go to toilet then? I stick something else up in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Its only funny if you don't have to work in that sort of environment. I don't believe its widespread but its probably more prevalent than 10 years ago. Sorry, was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek. It's not widespread, in fact I'm not sure it happens anywhere. I've never met anyone who claims to work in such conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Right I'm getting a little confused here. @McRamFan has said that he voted to leave with a deal as leaving without a deal didnt benefit him. @uttoxram75 has said that he is balls deep in making money from no deal. So, which one is it? Or could it be that nobody really knows and are just regurgitating things from the media? My understanding was that he was a salaried adviser for Somerset Capital Management but had to leave the role when he became a minister. More than happy to be corrected if this is incorrect. Your right, nobody really knows. I think we tend to acknowledge news that backs up our positions and discard stuff we don't want to believe. For me it comes to instinct based on what little I know. I work full time and spend a lot of my non working time caring for ageing parents as well as trying to help a busy daughter and son in law with the grandkids so I'm not an expert on politics, finance, hedge funds or anything else for that matter. If I went on Mastermind my specialist subject would be "Attempts to take the Popside 1973-1983" or "Theo Robinson versus Connor Sammon, who was Nigel Clough's best signing" What I do have, based on a lifetime of working in the private sector in low paid manufacturing work, is a deep feeling of dread when people whose businesses are based in tax havens, deciding the future of my country. I cannot see, no matter how hard I try to look, that Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Farage and the shadowy backers like Banks and co have the interests of ordinary British people at heart. I really can't. If you believe they want to improve living and working conditions for the vast majority of us then please share your hope with us. I would love to be proven wrong, I would love that they are all working to help to provide affordable housing, health and social care for us with adequate numbers of police officers, doctors and nurses paid out of the public purse. Since the end of WW2 this country has raised the bar for progressive policies, lifting people out of poverty, providing decent affordable housing, taking the sick and infirm and the old with us on a journey to a decent, civilised society. Are we going to throw all that away? Perhaps these things aren't important to the majority any more. Maybe we've reached the point of every man for himself? Am I being stupid here? Are my concerns about working conditions, consumer rights, environmental and health and safety laws completely unfounded in regards to a no deal Brexit. Or are they not important to others? What is the end game? What sort of society would you like to see? Sorry G STAR RAM, not expecting you personally to address this post, ended up a bit of a ramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 @uttoxram75 have to say my vision for the future is based upon hope rather than indicators from past performance! I just feel as though the last years politics have woken a sleeping giant (the public). For years politicians have trampled all over us without a thing being said. I think that with what has been happening politicians all of a sudden are going to be a lot more accountable to the electorate and that can only be a good thing for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: @uttoxram75 have to say my vision for the future is based upon hope rather than indicators from past performance! I just feel as though the last years politics have woken a sleeping giant (the public). For years politicians have trampled all over us without a thing being said. I think that with what has been happening politicians all of a sudden are going to be a lot more accountable to the electorate and that can only be a good thing for us. Thought this is an interesting piece that sort if backs up your hopes https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/09/brexit-crisis-global-capitalism-britain-place-world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: Are there any people on here who voted Leave who are now seriously worried about their futures with a no deal/terrible deal Brexit? I'm convinced there is a large portion of non-extreme Leave voters who decided based mostly on economical rather than ideological grounds who don't just want "Brexit done" but actual want their future to be secure. We never hear from these people but I think they are key to sorting this mess out. Admittedly I am but one person (I think) but I've said as much on here more than once. I said at the start of all this that there should have been a cross-party Brexit commission or something who would be responsible for negotiating our exit. It probably would have never got off the ground, though, because this whole problem has been about being unable to agree on the kind of Brexit we wanted. I suspect it'll now be: EU doesn't agree to our deal and blame game continues. Extension to article 50 - probably for several months (not Jan, anyway) General election Re-negotiation Referendum Remain Over 4 years of uncertainty for business and £ Billions wasted. Grrr indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 16 hours ago, Van Wolfie said: I've read the link, thanks very much. But if you stop posting fake news for a minute and do some proper research, you'd know that nurses should all have received 3% rise in 2019 and some have had a 29% increase. Promised in March 2018, yet to be delivered. PM's and Health Sec's have changed. Here are the facts https://fullfact.org/health/nhs-pay-deal-staff-missing-out/ 10 hours ago, Angry Ram said: That’s a bold statement unless you are 10. Worst conditions in your lifetime, really. Workers have more protection now than they ever have. Let’s have some examples to back that up. https://www.fgsolicitors.co.uk/news/sports-direct-the-use-of-zero-hours-contracts-a-business-model-with-exploitation-at-its-heart/ But hey, it's only a solicitor, must be made up. Zero hours contracts are great, if used correctly. Unfortunately some companies like to exploit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 08/10/2019 at 08:47, G STAR RAM said: I do completely oppose them. Surely an effective way of opposing something is by boycotting it? Understand it's easy for me to say if it doesnt affect me though. You really don't get it, do you? Just because you, allegedly, have your own accountancy business, you are utterly out of touch with the fact that if some people 'boycotted' zero hours they would be out on the street. You do know that we have food banks, these food banks serve families that have people at work. It use to be the odd charity feeding the homeless. https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/rough-sleeping/rough-sleeping-our-analysis You need your bubble popping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, McRamFan said: You really don't get it, do you? Just because you, allegedly, have your own accountancy business, you are utterly out of touch with the fact that if some people 'boycotted' zero hours they would be out on the street. You do know that we have food banks, these food banks serve families that have people at work. It use to be the odd charity feeding the homeless. https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/rough-sleeping/rough-sleeping-our-analysis You need your bubble popping. No I dont get anything. You're the only person on this forum that understands everything remember...allegedly. You need your ego popping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 9 hours ago, Angry Ram said: I stick something else up in the air. A f*rt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said: Admittedly I am but one person (I think) but I've said as much on here more than once. I said at the start of all this that there should have been a cross-party Brexit commission or something who would be responsible for negotiating our exit. It probably would have never got off the ground, though, because this whole problem has been about being unable to agree on the kind of Brexit we wanted. I suspect it'll now be: EU doesn't agree to our deal and blame game continues. Extension to article 50 - probably for several months (not Jan, anyway) General election Re-negotiation Referendum Remain Over 4 years of uncertainty for business and £ Billions wasted. Grrr indeed. Ah good point, I've always liked reading you more balanced opinions on this. As the only 'voice of the silent majority' on here would you vote remain if you could go back in time knowing what you do now? If there was another referendum and these options were available, would you now choose No Deal May style deal Very soft Brexit Remain Be careful what you choose, you are representing around half* of the original Leaver voters! *made up stat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: The second level is the attitude of big companies, the previous negotiated agreements and protocols of paying time and a half or double time for overtime has gone, enhanced redundancy pay over the legal minimum is now rare. I can only speak for the industry I work in although I hear plenty of anecdotal evidence from other workers in both public and private sectors who back this up. I believe we are in a race to the bottom where unscrupulous employers will continue to lobby governments to degrade employment law further. Working for a corporate, I see it day in day out, but to quote @G STAR RAM "that's business" You cannot have infinite growth - so for the business the only way forward is to continue to squeeze more liquid from the dishcloth of the workforce (so to speak) - hence the race to the bottom. And the fact that it's never the executives who you see tightening their own belts. They still seem to be handsomely rewarded for keeping the business on track - albeit at the expense of the workers, their rights, conditions, pay and morale Something needs to fundamentally change. The argy bargy over zero hours contracts for me is more about it being the thin end of the wedge. 20 years ago it wasn't even a thing. In another 20 years the worry is that we'll all be on them. Those guys Angry Ram has in his workforce who he doesn't think pull their weight? I bet he'd like to have them on zero hours contracts if he could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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