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The Politics Thread 2019


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1 minute ago, Van Wolfie said:

I would say the Con-Lib coalition 2010-15 was pretty successful - especially given that it was a right wing & centre-left coalition. Austerity would have been deeper if the Lib Dems hadn't moderated the Tories IMO.

Of course the LD's then got wiped out at the next election but I think that was down to LD voters not understanding that coalition is all about compromise and because they had a minor stake in the government, they had an unequal say in what happened.

No, The Lib Dems got wiped out because they went against their core principles on a) Tuition fees and b) PR. We got a referendum on a version of the latter that the party wasn't in favour of when it could have had exactly the system they wanted in coalition with Labour. They got wiped out because they helped put the Tories in power and kept them there for 5 years. They didn't have to do that.

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27 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

May as well give it a go then! But don't forget we were given a referendum on this a few years ago and the idea got thrown out. Presumably because it didn't have Farage behind it.......... 

The Alternative Vote thing was still FPTP in parliament but with each consituency being decided on AV (second preferences etc) until someone had over 50% of the votes.

The problem was that it had nobody much behind it. The LD's were given the referendum in return for supporting tuition fees but the Tories & Labour didn't want AV and didn't campaign for it, because it would have threatened the 2 main party status quo, so it died.

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1 minute ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

No, The Lib Dems got wiped out because they went against their core principles on a) Tuition fees and b) PR. We got a referendum on a version of the latter that the party wasn't in favour of when it could have had exactly the system they wanted in coalition with Labour. They got wiped out because they helped put the Tories in power and kept them there for 5 years. They didn't have to do that.

IMO they did. They didn't have the numbers to form a coalition with Labour and have a majority.

I know they got hammered on the tuition fees thing but that's what I meant by coalitions being about compromise. If they'd been in government on their own and brought fees in, then fine.

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1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

The argument against this system has been that it produces "weak" governments and it gives undue weight to nutters and the lunatic fringe.

Not undue weight I would say. Just a weight that better reflects their overall support among the electorate. In fact the weighting that they are due given their popularity. That goes for all the smaller parties not just the lunatic ones.

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52 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

When the Tories forced councils to sell their houses, was that a bad thing too?

The paradox is that they forced them to sell them at below market prices , which is is usually anathema to true Thatcherite believers in the free market.

They also banned councils from reinvesting the proceeds in building more houses, which is why we now have a housing crisis.

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1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

When the Tories forced councils to sell their houses, was that a bad thing too?

Did that result in ownership of property being forced from private owners? 

They think they can smash landlords as they're an easy target in the eyes of some of the public. Whats stopping them taking your house off you next? 

And its not project fear Steve, its what they've suggested will be their manifesto!

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4 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

And its not project fear Steve, its what they've suggested will be their manifesto!

Yes, but your analyses of how the world will cave-in as a result are ludicrously overly-dramatic.

But anyway I was only really making the point about how some people are willing to tell themselves that no deal will be OK, but soil their kecks at the thought of a Labour government who actively want to improve life for the many not the few. People are batty

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8 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Yes, but your analyses of how the world will cave-in as a result are ludicrously overly-dramatic.

But anyway I was only really making the point about how some people are willing to tell themselves that no deal will be OK, but soil their kecks at the thought of a Labour government who actively want to improve life for the many not the few. People are batty

There is a big difference between wanting to improve life for everyone and actually coming up with a credible plan to do it.

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17 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

Did that result in ownership of property being forced from private owners? 

They think they can smash landlords as they're an easy target in the eyes of some of the public. Whats stopping them taking your house off you next? 

And its not project fear Steve, its what they've suggested will be their manifesto!

the ownership of these houses resulted in property being taken from all of us. 

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3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

There is a big difference between wanting to improve life for everyone and actually coming up with a credible plan to do it.

At what point do you decide that a plan is credible? When Rupert Murdoch & co say it's OK to believe?

The negativity you all display is not very British. You're all a disgrace to the Queen god bless 'er 

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2 hours ago, Red_Dawn said:

Corbyn and his cabinet have suggested that they'll force landlords to sell their properties to renters at cut price rates. Likely resulting in a property crash as landlords desperately hoof out tenants and sell their properties before having them nicked by the state. 

Disregard any immigration controls whatsoever, and give anyone who happens to find their way to the UK an equal vote to someone born here and who have paid into the system their entire lives. 

Abolish private education to 'redistribute their funds', forcing hundreds of thousands of private school kids into an already overcrowded public education system. 

I'm not even going to start on his shambolic attitude towards the security services and armed forces. 

He would bankrupt the country both financially and morally within only a few years. He's far more dangerous than leaving the EU on WTO terms. 

You missed begin paying reparations off your list.

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Just now, SchtivePesley said:

At what point do you decide that a plan is credible? When Rupert Murdoch & co say it's OK to believe?

The negativity you all display is not very British. You're all a disgrace to the Queen god bless 'er 

Yep it's only us stupid Tories and Brexiteers that see things in the media and take them at face value.

I was even stupid enough to disbelieve Diane Abbott when she said the Labour party would employ an additional 10,000 police officers at a cost of somewhere between £300,000 and £80,000,000 per year.

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4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yep it's only us stupid Tories and Brexiteers that see things in the media and take them at face value.

That's not what I was implying. I was talking explicitly about people's view of Corbyn's policies. Every single pre-manifesto idea is dismissed as "not credible" even before any of the detail is disclosed. It's nothing short of brainwashing

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4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

That's not what I was implying. I was talking explicitly about people's view of Corbyn's policies. Every single pre-manifesto idea is dismissed as "not credible" even before any of the detail is disclosed. It's nothing short of brainwashing

And Labour supporters have a balanced view of Conservatives?

Quite a few of you yesterday quoting about all of the money that some Conservative politicians will be making from a no deal Brexit. When challenged on it and asked for evidence? 

It's not brainwashing to decide which sources you want to trust and distrust. Personally I've seen enough with my own eyes from the likes of Corbyn and Abbot to know I wouldnt trust them to run a bath, nevermind a country.

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7 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

That's not what I was implying. I was talking explicitly about people's view of Corbyn's policies. Every single pre-manifesto idea is dismissed as "not credible" even before any of the detail is disclosed. It's nothing short of brainwashing

Force landlords to sell their own property

Abolish and redistribute private schooling

Open borders

Allow foreigners the vote

Four day week

Reparations

 

Do we really need to look at the detail?  Unless the detail is to do the opposite of what they are actually suggesting I'm not seeing many vote winners there (and I'd be open to voting Labour if they hadn't gone off the deep end).

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1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

And Labour supporters have a balanced view of Conservatives?

Quite a few of you yesterday quoting about all of the money that some Conservative politicians will be making from a no deal Brexit. When challenged on it and asked for evidence? 

It's not brainwashing to decide which sources you want to trust and distrust. Personally I've seen enough with my own eyes from the likes of Corbyn and Abbot to know I wouldnt trust them to run a bath, nevermind a country.

Ah the old 'my own eyes' line is back. How are you coping with the massed hordes of Eastern Europeans marauding the Derby city centre streets trying to flog you crack and smack, old bean?

You know, the ones nobody but you can see.

 

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11 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Ah the old 'my own eyes' line is back. How are you coping with the massed hordes of Eastern Europeans marauding the Derby city centre streets trying to flog you crack and smack, old bean?

You know, the ones nobody but you can see.

 

Just when people were getting back to sensible debate...

How are Rees Moggs profits from his directorship looking today? You know the directorship that doesnt exist...

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18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just when people were getting back to sensible debate...

How are Rees Moggs profits from his directorship looking today? You know the directorship that doesnt exist...

He's an owner, not a director (although he was once the Chief Exec and was then for a while a "special adviser").

I reckon he's scraping by with him and his wifes £100m or so......

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