The Politics Thread 2019

[Rev]

47 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

A shame that you don't have the political nous to discern Labour's stance. It's actually the best one of the lot!

Anyway - we digress here's the PM definitely not being racist

Now imagine the reaction if Corbyn did the same thing to two army veterans in a line up...

Come now, he shakes hands with everyone who offers one in that video, enough real things to attack him for without making stuff up.

 

To address an earlier point, imagine how cheap Makers Mark will be when we sign a big beautiful free trade deal with the US.

You'll never be fit for work, which is lucky, because they'll probably be no jobs.

[cheron85]

Just now, maxjam said:

Is no deal the lazy option?   I thought we were told 'no deal was worse than a bad deal'.  If we can't negotiate a good deal (and it seems we can't) what, apart from remaining, are the alternatives?

Yes - No deal is worse than a bad deal - So it should never be an option and is the lazy option

Option A - The best deal

Option B - The next best deal

Option C - The next best after that

Option D - A kinda bad deal but at least it sorts out some of the issues

Keep adding more options...

Then No Deal

Saying "we can't negotiate if we take no deal off the table" is lazy - I negotiate all the time in my job and if my fall back was "well i'm just gonna leave and not get anything sorted" I'd get fired - I have to have 5/6 feasible options in my back pocket and try to negotiate the best one of those

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Leaving with no deal is only illegal because remainer parliament made it so - rather than use it as a bargaining chip or fall back position if the EU won't negotiate reasonably.

If you think Corbyn is a remainer than you weren't paying attention at the referendum - He hates the EU more than BoJo

However, what you're essentially saying is that you don't like the fact that a bunch of MPs have said "no deal is the worst thing for the UK" - They've taken back their part of representing the best interests of the UK 

And the EU have been the most reasonable negotiators so far - They've tried to get us to the table loads of times, have made concessions, have been as helpful as they could be when they're having to get 27 countries to agree to stuff - It's our government that has painfully failed to be reasonable and are now essentially making threats with no deal - It's juvenile and lazy (essentially sums up BoJo really)

[alexxxxx]

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Good point and it's obviously the norm that you do show passports, but thinking about it I was in Norway earlier this year and we went over the border into Finland and Russia without any border infrastructure and no passport checks. In the northern areas of Scandinavia it all seemed completely open, so it clearly can happen and including EU and non-EU countries.

I really find it difficult to belive you could cross from Finland to Russia without a border check as generally you need a visa to visit Russia. 

Norway and Sweden have had a passport union prior to them both joining the single market. And there are customs points between those two as Norway isn't a participant to the customs Union. 

Ireland and UK will have to have controls such as Norway and Sweden however its more complicated than that because the standards and the range of goods subject to tariffs and other restrictions would be greater than that of those 2 countries. 

In my experience an absolute worst case scenario would be something like the border between Turkey (non eu) and Bulgaria (eu) where there are very long queues of lorries waiting to clear customs and it takes an hour or so to cross the border. 

[1of4]

1 hour ago, Carl Sagan said:

Good point and it's obviously the norm that you do show passports, but thinking about it I was in Norway earlier this year and we went over the border into Finland and Russia without any border infrastructure and no passport checks. In the northern areas of Scandinavia it all seemed completely open, so it clearly can happen and including EU and non-EU countries.

Can you show me were you legally entered Russia without having to pay for a visitors visa. It'll save me a lot of paperwork and money the next time I go to St Petersburg.

[maxjam]

Just now, cheron85 said:

Yes - No deal is worse than a bad deal - So it should never be an option and is the lazy option

Got that the wrong way round lol, amended my post.

 

2 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Option A - The best deal

Option B - The next best deal

Option C - The next best after that

Option D - A kinda bad deal but at least it sorts out some of the issues

Keep adding more options...

Then No Deal

Saying "we can't negotiate if we take no deal off the table" is lazy - I negotiate all the time in my job and if my fall back was "well i'm just gonna leave and not get anything sorted" I'd get fired - I have to have 5/6 feasible options in my back pocket and try to negotiate the best one of those

Didn't realise that May bought us back a multitude of deals, just one that the EU said wasn't up for renegotiation at the time. 

 

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

If you think Corbyn is a remainer than you weren't paying attention at the referendum - He hates the EU more than BoJo

Of course he's a leaver, or he used to be - what he is now is anyones guess ?

At the time the irony was we had a remainer negotiating leave and a leaver trying to remain.

 

5 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

However, what you're essentially saying is that you don't like the fact that a bunch of MPs have said "no deal is the worst thing for the UK" - They've taken back their part of representing the best interests of the UK 

Not everyone thinks 'no deal is the worst thing for the UK'.  I guess we'll never really know until/unless it happens.

 

8 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

And the EU have been the most reasonable negotiators so far - They've tried to get us to the table loads of times, have made concessions, have been as helpful as they could be when they're having to get 27 countries to agree to stuff - It's our government that has painfully failed to be reasonable and are now essentially making threats with no deal - It's juvenile and lazy (essentially sums up BoJo really)

If I could be bothered I'd have to research that myself, I've just read the same headlines as everyone else;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/25/michel-barnier-boris-johnsons-combative-rhetoric-targets-eu-unity

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-latest-theresa-may-no-deal-eu-exit-a8968756.html

https://www.politico.eu/article/jean-claude-juncker-eu-wont-renegotiate-brexit-deal/

[Norman]

29 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

 

And the EU have been the most reasonable negotiators so far - They've tried to get us to the table loads of times, have made concessions, have been as helpful as they could be when they're having to get 27 countries to agree to stuff - It's our government that has painfully failed to be reasonable and are now essentially making threats with no deal - It's juvenile and lazy (essentially sums up BoJo really)

If only the EU were open to negotiations with us and made some concessions when Cameron tried, eh? 

[cstand]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

A shame that you don't have the political nous to discern Labour's stance. It's actually the best one of the lot!

Anyway - we digress here's the PM definitely not being racist

Now imagine the reaction if Corbyn did the same thing to two army veterans in a line up...

Corbyn would not allow army veterans in Labour party conference he prefers them at at court being prosecuted for government policy or being a targeted by any terrorist group he and mad momentum mob supports.

 

 

[Norman]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

A shame that you don't have the political nous to discern Labour's stance. It's actually the best one of the lot!

Anyway - we digress here's the PM definitely not being racist

Now imagine the reaction if Corbyn did the same thing to two army veterans in a line up...

Nah, he wouldn't ignore them. They aren't Jewish. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, cstand said:

No we the people won that fight in 2016.

What parliament has been unable to answer is the fundamental question - "How?" That isn't for Remainers or the EU to resolve. Basically, you broke it, you fix it.

[cstand]

1 minute ago, Montgolfier said:

What parliament has been unable to answer is the fundamental question - "How?" That isn't for Remainers or the EU to resolve. Basically, you broke it, you fix it.

Out no deal as per referendum nothing to fix just do it. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

A shame that you don't have the political nous to discern Labour's stance. It's actually the best one of the lot!

Anyway - we digress here's the PM definitely not being racist

Now imagine the reaction if Corbyn did the same thing to two army veterans in a line up...

Ethnicity: English, as well as one eighth Turkish, one eighth Ashkenazi Jewish, small amounts of Swiss-German, German, French, European Royal, and Irish, remote Cornish, Dutch, Belgian, Scottish, and Scots-Irish/Northern Irish

Jewish and Muslim grandparents.  Pakistani Sikh children.

Your comment means we must assume Boris hates himself and his whole family including his children.

The normal 'all leave voters are to thick to understand politics and are racist' in the same post . Back to the normal factory default setting so loved by remainers ,

[Eddie]

21 minutes ago, cstand said:

Out no deal as per referendum nothing to fix just do it. 

Difficulty - Irish border and keeping the United Kingdom as a viable entity.

The fundamental problem is that English leavers are going to drag two entire countries that voted overwhelmingly to 'Remain' with them, plus one country which was split right down the middle.

'No deal' essentially leads to a united Ireland and an independent Scotland. If that's what you want, then you are not a Brexiteer but an English Nationalist.

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, Montgolfier said:

Difficulty - Irish border and keeping the United Kingdom as a viable entity.

The fundamental problem is that English leavers are going to drag two entire countries that voted overwhelmingly to 'Remain' with them, plus one country which was split right down the middle.

'No deal' essentially leads to a united Ireland and an independent Scotland. If that's what you want, then you are not a Brexiteer but an English Nationalist.

Yeah, you're right. We should just count the Northern Irish and Scottish votes.

[1of4]

Normally whenever negotiations between two parties fail and they are unable to come to an agreement. Both parties usually revert back to where they were before the negotiations started. The trouble with brexit is, with a no agreement, we end up in a position that will be far worse then were we started. We end up having no trade deals, good, bad or indifferent with most of the major trading nations around the world.

  Even if one is to believe all the rhetoric that we will get deals, that are great for us, from every country. How long will these deals, that will be as good for us as they will be for the other countries, take to complete.

[Eddie]

15 minutes ago, Norman said:

Yeah, you're right. We should just count the Northern Irish and Scottish votes.

That's not what I am saying at all.

Do you have an objection to a united Ireland or an independent Scotland? If so, why? After all, both countries were originally subjugated under the heel of the English. Why not re-name the UK the English Empire and be done with it?

[Carl Sagan]

6 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Can you show me were you legally entered Russia without having to pay for a visitors visa. It'll save me a lot of paperwork and money the next time I go to St Petersburg.

We were up in the arctic so if we crossed it was probably near Hesseng. But it doesn't look like it. However, reading up they do seem to have a visa free crossing there (but only for "locals").

[1of4]

Johnson in his speech to the conservative party conference, state that he and the tory party would respect the Good Friday Agreement.

How are they going to achieve that, while at the same time saying that as part of their proposed new agreement with the EU. That they would introduce customs checks, that will take place away from the border, on goods moved between NI and Eire, claiming that these checks would not affect the GFA.

Any check wether it's ten yards, ten miles or even one hundred miles away from the border, is still a check on what is crossing the border and would definitely violate the no border control section of the GFA.

[Wolfie]

15 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

A shame that you don't have the political nous to discern Labour's stance. It's actually the best one of the lot!

Anyway - we digress here's the PM definitely not being racist

Now imagine the reaction if Corbyn did the same thing to two army veterans in a line up...

 

14 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Come now, he shakes hands with everyone who offers one in that video, enough real things to attack him for without making stuff up.

 

This exactly.

I watched the rambling buffoon & his speech and there were plenty of others he didn't shake hands with as well.

[TimRam]

Without reading all the posts and google searching (because I am a lazy bgr)...did anyone look more closely at Mays deal and was it worse than staying in the EU in your opinion? What would the advantages have been for us with that deal?

[WhiteHorseRam]

10 minutes ago, TimRam said:

Without reading all the posts and google searching (because I am a lazy bgr)...did anyone look more closely at Mays deal and was it worse than staying in the EU in your opinion? What would the advantages have been for us with that deal?

No … no

Run while you still can?