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Mason Mount

Cam the Ram

By Cam the Ram
in Derby County Forum

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G-Ram

G-Ram

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

1: If Tomori has naivety around positional sense he hid it pretty well on Saturday. He was the stand out defender across two teams.

2: I'm asking the question again, name a young starlet who has finished a loan period from a big club to a smaller club by signing for that club, any club. Bamford is the only example I can think of.

3: Can you name any young starlet who has extended a loan period with a club to second season? I can't think of one.

4: Palmer and Winnall are examples as they are loan players we have brought in and who people on here were saying we should sign - sorry, I can only quote what has happened. 

I'd love it if we signed either Mount or Tomori, or Wilson come to that. But I think we're better spending time talking about the hotel complex on the East Stand as that has more chance of happening than these two signing for us.

Number 3 ... Patrick Roberts went for a second season at celtic 

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Carl Sagan

Carl Sagan

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Sorry to pour cold water on dreams but I think we have next to zero chance of signing either Tomori or Mount. Both of them are, already, Prem class and I have no doubt that they will both go on to play for England. Enjoy them while you can, they are both a delight to watch but not for ever I am afraid.

Can anyone name a young talent that has gone out on loan from one of the big clubs to a smaller club and ended up signing for them? Bamford comes to mind but besides that it hardly ever happens - that is not why they are here.

As for us, we bought Martin, Bent and Ince after loans but the usual clamour to sign up the likes of Palmer, Winnall, Osman etc just comes to naught.

Nathan Ake? Chelsea to Bournemouth after a successful loan.

And of course George Thorne! Proof that if the player wants it, it can happen.

 

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BaaLocks

BaaLocks

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Nathan Ake? Chelsea to Bournemouth after a successful loan.

And of course George Thorne! Proof that if the player wants it, it can happen.

 

Ake went back to Chelsea for six months before leaving. Ibe was a straight transfer. 

Thorne is a good example, so with all our collective genius we have one example of a transfer and one of an extended loan with Patrick Roberts.

I guess that just confirms the point that we shouldn't get too hopeful re: Mount or Tomori.

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Ghost of Clough

Ghost of Clough

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Ake went back to Chelsea for six months before leaving. Ibe was a straight transfer. 

Thorne is a good example, so with all our collective genius we have one example of a transfer and one of an extended loan with Patrick Roberts.

I guess that just confirms the point that we shouldn't get too hopeful re: Mount or Tomori.

Michael Keane to Burnley 

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therealhantsram

therealhantsram

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

 

2: I'm asking the question again, name a young starlet who has finished a loan period from a big club to a smaller club by signing for that club, any club. Bamford is the only example I can think of. 

 

Keane... Man u to Burnley.

We got Wisdom from Liverpool, but with another loan in between. 

Mitovic at Fulham probably counts too... Just 23... Does that make him a start let in your book? 

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BaaLocks

BaaLocks

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Keane... Man u to Burnley.

We got Wisdom from Liverpool, but with another loan in between. 

Mitovic at Fulham probably counts too... Just 23... Does that make him a start let in your book? 

Or, rather, I wouldn't call Newcastle to Fulham the big club to little club scenario. Not unless the deal was done in 1927....

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Big Trav

Big Trav

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Posted

Wasn’t there a mention of being able to only loan out 8 players by the FA? If this is true and we get promoted. Super frankie slaps in a 20 mill bid for mason Chelsea might just accept it same with tomori. Chelsea currently have like 40+ players on loan. This is a big if but If it happens it will be crazy. Also Chelsea don’t really start their youngsters. Remember gail kakuta? Chelsea prospect who was loaned until he was 26 and is now a wasted talent. They’re notorious for ruining young players careers by spitting them out to every loan club. 

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DRBee

DRBee

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Big Trav said:

Wasn’t there a mention of being able to only loan out 8 players by the FA? If this is true and we get promoted. Super frankie slaps in a 20 mill bid for mason Chelsea might just accept it same with tomori. Chelsea currently have like 40+ players on loan. This is a big if but If it happens it will be crazy. Also Chelsea don’t really start their youngsters. Remember gail kakuta? Chelsea prospect who was loaned until he was 26 and is now a wasted talent. They’re notorious for ruining young players careers by spitting them out to every loan club. 

If Mount is as good as some think he is going to be, might Chelsea not want to keep him?

Delusional fantasy may keep a message board going , but this speculation is premature. Promotion is not a given and were we to be promoted it might be more likely we have to bring in foreign players to fill the skill gap as we couldn't afford players like Mount. Mount is a much better player than the likes of Ibe and Bamford.

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eddie

eddie

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

I agree on all of that. It amazes me to sit watching Lingard playing for England and think that is the same player who couldn't even make the starting XI for us. To be fair, for club and country he is largely the same player - utterly anonymous for 85 minutes then he gets interested for two minutes and does something impressive.

Compare him to the much-praised headless chicken Tito Villa - utterly anonymous for 85 minutes and then anonymous for the other 5.

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YorkshireRam

YorkshireRam

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

1: If Tomori has naivety around positional sense he hid it pretty well on Saturday. He was the stand out defender across two teams.

2: I'm asking the question again, name a young starlet who has finished a loan period from a big club to a smaller club by signing for that club, any club. Bamford is the only example I can think of.

3: Can you name any young starlet who has extended a loan period with a club to second season? I can't think of one.

4: Palmer and Winnall are examples as they are loan players we have brought in and who people on here were saying we should sign - sorry, I can only quote what has happened. 

I'd love it if we signed either Mount or Tomori, or Wilson come to that. But I think we're better spending time talking about the hotel complex on the East Stand as that has more chance of happening than these two signing for us.

Wilfried Zaha, John Guidetti, Emyr Huws (twice) and then a certain George Thorne if you remember him? Quite a few examples tbh

Also, Monaco loaned Falcao for 2 consecutive seasons if I remember correctly

Unless a player is guaranteed the chance to play regularly for his parent club, in this case CL clubs, any offer of serious playtime in an environment and club he may previously have enjoyed on loan would surely be considered? I doubt Wilson and Tomori would be starting for Liverpool and Chelsea respectively next season, Mount may well do however, none are impossible targets though.

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BaaLocks

BaaLocks

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Wilfried Zaha, John Guidetti, Emyr Huws (twice) and then a certain George Thorne if you remember him? Quite a few examples tbh

Also, Monaco loaned Falcao for 2 consecutive seasons if I remember correctly

Unless a player is guaranteed the chance to play regularly for his parent club, in this case CL clubs, any offer of serious playtime in an environment and club he may previously have enjoyed on loan would surely be considered? I doubt Wilson and Tomori would be starting for Liverpool and Chelsea respectively next season, Mount may well do however, none are impossible targets though.

OK, I'm stopping after this one. I didn't intend it to be a thorough analysis of every loan move made in the history of football, I was just making a point that does seem to hold water. Starlets from big clubs almost never move permanently to the clubs they are loaned to, starlets from big clubs almost never extend their loans.

Zaha - was bought by Utd and then loaned straight back for one season

Guidetti - not sure which 'category' you are referring to but a quick look at his Wikipedia suggests he seems to fit neither

Falcao - went on loan to Utd and Chelsea (for less than one season each) but all others moves were permanent

Emyr Huws - from Chelsea to Wigan, that I can see but yes, that is one

George Thorne - yes, though I would hardly call WBA a big club

As I said, leaving it there - Wikipedia can help if you think you have others. I'd happily put a bet that none of Tomori, Mount or Wilson will be playing for Derby next season. It would be a bet I would be happy to lose.

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BathRam72

BathRam72

Posted
Posted
On 24/09/2018 at 10:47, Edtheram said:

What better time then in a friendly? Dont need the same players in both friendlies during a break. They need to try some youngsters....

 

Look on the bright side. If we do get promoted this season, there is a good chance we will see him at least twice next season. ?

I am not sure why Edtheram quote is attached as it has no bearing on what I am saying. Finger trouble

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ram59

ram59

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

OK, I'm stopping after this one. I didn't intend it to be a thorough analysis of every loan move made in the history of football, I was just making a point that does seem to hold water. Starlets from big clubs almost never move permanently to the clubs they are loaned to, starlets from big clubs almost never extend their loans.

Zaha - was bought by Utd and then loaned straight back for one season

Guidetti - not sure which 'category' you are referring to but a quick look at his Wikipedia suggests he seems to fit neither

Falcao - went on loan to Utd and Chelsea (for less than one season each) but all others moves were permanent

Emyr Huws - from Chelsea to Wigan, that I can see but yes, that is one

George Thorne - yes, though I would hardly call WBA a big club

As I said, leaving it there - Wikipedia can help if you think you have others. I'd happily put a bet that none of Tomori, Mount or Wilson will be playing for Derby next season. It would be a bet I would be happy to lose.

I agree, we never extended our starlet, Bryson's loan with Cardiff even though they got promoted. We let him get some good experience and brought him back into the fold. ?

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