TuffLuff Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 28 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: we'd have to drop Vydra too, so I don't see what we're gaining. I'm not 100% against this, well perhaps when we are away from home at the very least. Think no matter who is in the midfield 2 they'll be bombarded by the opposition without the player/s infront providing any real protection. For as good as Vydra is, it isn't his game to try and defend. There isn't a clear solution the problems we have, but for all the people blaming Keogh,Huddlestone etc then I think it's worth a ponder upon what the front 4 are doing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Oh ****** ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, BondJovi said: We shouldn't have sacked Mac1. Once we went with the untested Clement, we had to give him time, but we didn't and once Mel entered the dressing room Clement was finished. Wassall did a reasonable job and was probably best suited to continue on from the style of Mac1 but that would have been a gamble. Pearson, what a mess that was, right choice to be sacked. Mac2 should have been allowed to see out the season at least, otherwise why bother getting him back. Which leads us on to Rowett... Rowett certainly talks a good game, all his pre-season talk of knowing what needed to be done and all this, yet I am struggling to see much evidence of this so far. He has tried to shake up the squad which has definitely been needed. I don't think he has had the clear out he wanted, so we are in this position of having various ingredients to make several different meals, but not the full ingredients for a single one. With all that has gone before, Rowett has to have the season and next to actually hope we have a squad that has a single identity. Only if we are faced with a serious threat of relegation should something happen. Much of this current mess is created by having an itchy trigger finger at the top and appointments that do not follow on the same identity. We have to be realistic and lower our expectations for this season. Apart from using Johnson on the left wing (mental)...the rest of your arguement is extremely sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, BondJovi said: Much of this current mess is created by having an itchy trigger finger at the top and appointments that do not follow on the same identity. We have to be realistic and lower our expectations for this season. I actually think the real problem is not the hiring and firing of managers, but the spending of silly amounts on transfers and long contracts with high wages. If we'd just sacked lots of managers and chopped and changed mid-price players it'd be fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just a bit of reality to the situation after Bristol. It was not that long ago that the Bristol fans were calling for Johnson's head on a spike. Not much was going right for him, results, style etc.. Similar to Rowett now?? Yes, they beat us up good and proper on Saturday (bastardos).. Fast flowing football? Running between the lines.. Ticks most of the boxes for me.. The board gave him time when people wanted blood. Who knows how long it will last for them but we saw the signs last season at PP.. Rome was not built in a day. Rowett has a lot to prove, he can't keep on talking the talk without giving us a sign but we HAVE to give him time. I for one can't stand another change of direction. My god is this me being positive !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Surely we must have a young hungry dynamo tackler in the under 23s then away from home we shut up shop and hit on the break Carson Wis. Keough. Davies Olsen Hudds. Thorne Energetic under 23/ hansen Russell. Vydra Lawrence a young player being defected by hudds and Thorne in that team should be able to swim in a cover the ground closing down tackling role? v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, archied said: Surely we must have a young hungry dynamo tackler in the under 23s then away from home we shut up shop and hit on the break Carson Wis. Keough. Davies Olsen Hudds. Thorne Energetic under 23/ hansen Russell. Vydra Lawrence a young player being defected by hudds and Thorne in that team should be able to swim in a cover the ground closing down tackling role? v Is that Hanson in the number 10 I see?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Millenniumram said: Is that Hanson in the number 10 I see?! Not really a number 10 as such but more a defensive destroyer breaking up play and being directed by hudds and Thorne ,, yes it's a predominantly defensive set up but we really need to go back to basics away from home as we are dire and easy Peasey to roll over ,, let's start at the beginning and be really solid and hard to beat away from home then take it from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, archied said: Surely we must have a young hungry dynamo tackler in the under 23s then away from home we shut up shop and hit on the break Carson Wis. Keough. Davies Olsen Hudds. Thorne Energetic under 23/ hansen Russell. Vydra Lawrence a young player being defected by hudds and Thorne in that team should be able to swim in a cover the ground closing down tackling role? v Now that's a new plan,get the youngster to switch sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superzak Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Get rid of Rowett and stick a foreign manager in .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeram Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Billy Davies is foreign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 On 16/09/2017 at 20:00, MackworthRamIsGod said: That decision now looks unreal hey? I think Laughing stock is used too easily, but I do believe we are a massive laughing stock in football. At least under the 3 amigos we knew we were s**** anyway. Why does the decision look unreal now out of interest? We really are not a laughing stock in football. Outside of Derby and Nottingham nobody could give a monkey's about what is going on at Pride Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Gary has made it clear by his transfer dealings that he doesn't believe in possession based football which is fine if you are hard to beat. There is no way we will ever be hard to beat with the formation played at Bristol. A good manager will learn from that, make his team difficult to beat then build the attacking side of the game over the next few months. We will have to accept a more direct style of football, in fact, a few of our fans will be quite happy as i often hear shouts of "get it up the park" when we used to keep the ball for more than 2 passes, but he seriously needs to make us more compact and quickly. Playing industrial football is only ok if your winning games. (Even then i'd prefer not to but that's just me). I'm with @Angry Ram in that we need to give him time to develop his tactics and team but if we capitulate a few more times like we did at Bristol then people will vote with their feet and Mel's trigger finger will become a tad itchy. We've got goals in this squad and we've got reasonable defenders for this level, its not rocket science where the problems lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Just now, uttoxram75 said: I'm with @Angry Ram in that we need to give him time to develop his tactics and team but if we capitulate a few more times like we did at Bristol then people will vote with their feet and Mel's trigger finger will become a tad itchy. We've got goals in this squad and we've got reasonable defenders for this level, its not rocket science where the problems lie. If it's not rocket science then why haven't the issues been addressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I agree with utch that the philosophy seems to be to counter possession based football. we are trying to develop a system whereby we allow the opponent to have the ball, whilst we stay compact and press (contradiction?), win it back and counter attack quickly. so we gave up on hughes and co and favoured a different type of player. Our possession stats show that we typically have 42-48% possession now. People keeps saying that this irrelevant but we are currently getting hammered by average teams. the focus now is on how we defend, how we perform when the opposition have the ball; but the problem is not the individual errors or the static players, its that we have become so poor in possession. we give the ball away frequently. it keeps coming back. Its keeps arriving in our box. We're on the wrong end of a percentages game. people don't go and watch football to see their team dig in for 90 minutes and hack the ball away before eventually scoring an 89th minute winner on a breakaway. They go to watch skill. They want the winger to take on the full back. The want the midfield to knock it around and control the game. They want to see plenty of shots, goals, near misses. They want the opposition keeper to have to pull off great saves. Who are the players we all love and remember. Even the great defenders are immortalised because of their skill and class with the ball. Bobby moore, Alan hansen, roy mcfarland, colin todd, dave mackay, igor. These were all geat players in possession. peter Taylor always used to shout "hold it, hold it". We want players who are comfortable in possession. Players with instant control. Players who are difficult to depossess; players who are hard to get the ball off. That should be one measure. The other is how brave are they with the ball. Bill shankley understood this better than most. There is a role for the defenders, the destroyers, the tacklers, and the water carriers, but thats not ultimately what gets the crowd on the edge of their seats. Football needs the keegans, and the ginolas. Arthur cox understood this. Jim smith understood it. Even if we follow a path which leads to dour but winning football, i don't think that the Derby crowd will stay with it long term. They will want to get out of the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Inglorius said: If it's not rocket science then why haven't the issues been addressed I think managers tend to be very blinkered by formations and liking certain players. Its a big test for Gary imo whether he can adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, RamNut said: I agree with utch that the philosophy seems to be to counter possession based football. we are trying to develop a system whereby we allow the opponent to have the ball, whilst we stay compact and press (contradiction?), win it back and counter attack quickly. so we gave up on hughes and co and favoured a different type of player. Our possession stats show that we typically have 42-48% possession now. People keeps saying that this irrelevant but we are currently getting hammered by average teams. the focus now is on how we defend, how we perform when the opposition have the ball; but the problem is not the individual errors or the static players, its that we have become so poor in possession. we give the ball away frequently. it keeps coming back. Its keeps arriving in our box. We're on the wrong end of a percentages game. people don't go and watch football to see their team dig in for 90 minutes and hack the ball away before eventually scoring an 89th minute winner on a breakaway. They go to watch skill. They want the winger to take on the full back. The want the midfield to knock it around and control the game. They want to see plenty of shots, goals, near misses. They want the opposition keeper to have to pull off great saves. Who are the players we all love and remember. Even the great defenders are immortalised because of their skill and class with the ball. Bobby moore, Alan hansen, roy mcfarland, colin todd, dave mackay, igor. These were all geat players in possession. peter Taylor always used to shout "hold it, hold it". We want players who are comfortable in possession. Players with instant control. Players who are difficult to depossess; players who are hard to get the ball off. That should be one measure. The other is how brave are they with the ball. Bill shankley understood this better than most. There is a role for the defenders, the destroyers, the tacklers, and the water carriers, but thats not ultimately what gets the crowd on the edge of their seats. Football needs the keegans, and the ginolas. Arthur cox understood this. Jim smith understood it. Even if we follow a path which leads to dour but winning football, i don't think that the Derby crowd will stay with it long term. They will want to get out of the building. We won 5-0 in the last home game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, RamNut said: I agree with utch that the philosophy seems to be to counter possession based football. we are trying to develop a system whereby we allow the opponent to have the ball, whilst we stay compact and press (contradiction?), win it back and counter attack quickly. so we gave up on hughes and co and favoured a different type of player. Our possession stats show that we typically have 42-48% possession now. People keeps saying that this irrelevant but we are currently getting hammered by average teams. the focus now is on how we defend, how we perform when the opposition have the ball; but the problem is not the individual errors or the static players, its that we have become so poor in possession. we give the ball away frequently. it keeps coming back. Its keeps arriving in our box. We're on the wrong end of a percentages game. people don't go and watch football to see their team dig in for 90 minutes and hack the ball away before eventually scoring an 89th minute winner on a breakaway. They go to watch skill. They want the winger to take on the full back. The want the midfield to knock it around and control the game. They want to see plenty of shots, goals, near misses. They want the opposition keeper to have to pull off great saves. Who are the players we all love and remember. Even the great defenders are immortalised because of their skill and class with the ball. Bobby moore, Alan hansen, roy mcfarland, colin todd, dave mackay, igor. These were all geat players in possession. peter Taylor always used to shout "hold it, hold it". We want players who are comfortable in possession. Players with instant control. Players who are difficult to depossess; players who are hard to get the ball off. That should be one measure. The other is how brave are they with the ball. Bill shankley understood this better than most. There is a role for the defenders, the destroyers, the tacklers, and the water carriers, but thats not ultimately what gets the crowd on the edge of their seats. Football needs the keegans, and the ginolas. Arthur cox understood this. Jim smith understood it. Even if we follow a path which leads to dour but winning football, i don't think that the Derby crowd will stay with it long term. They will want to get out of the building. Majestic post Sir. Bang on. At the end of the day Brian, football is an entertainment business. It's all about the fans. Football is all about the fans. "F@ck the fans" were the words of the late, great, Jimmy Sirrel, when reminded of this by the great Duncan Hamilton, as written in his book about BC, "Provided you don't kiss me". Keep the fans in the building and you keep your job, young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said: We won 5-0 in the last home game. We lost 3-1 the game before, 2-3 the game after, and 4-1 the game after. We've leaked 10 goals in 4 games; something is very wrong, structurally with the team. It's not about lack of effort...the building of the team, is iffy. The foundations are not right. What's the plan to fix it? At the mo, it seems that GR just wants to keep doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said: We won 5-0 in the last home game. we were good with the ball at times. Lovely goal by vydra. we were also more effective at free kicks and corners. But we were also slightly flattered given the number of chances that hull had. that was our best performance of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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