TheDeadlySaul Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 This just stinks of the Martin saga with Pearson, you'd have think Mel would have learnt to not give so much transfer power to managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Don't understand if it's true, I hope it's Will who wants to leave not Rowett choosing to sell. Best home grown player who will wear an England shirt one day. Good luck Will. A part of me will die when he goes, loved watching his skills ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 57 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: I would argue that Johnson does those things better than Hughes. Johnson seemed to be the only player willing to make a tackle or even win a header in midfield last season. Hughes didn't offer much going forward last year or any defensive work. I'm not saying that he doesn't have it in him, because that lad could be world class one day. But in my opinion he has fallen off since his injury and hasn't progressed enough in the last 3 years. I could not disagree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Assuming my understanding 7 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Yes well that's why I asked if you had a source - Random speculation based on nothing is what we have on here so far Apparently is "as far as one knows" and I feel is a little strong for "based on internet forum speculation" No argument it's all speculation, but we do know how the FFP and accounting systems work. In grossly oversimplified terms, Signings are basically amortised over the length of their contract (so if you sign Bradley Johnson for £6m on a 3 year deal, there's a £2m hit each year for 3 years). But sales are basically immediate, less their 'book' worth at the time (so if we sell Bradley Johnson after 2 seasons for £3m, we lose his book value of £2m, resulting in a net FFP profit of £1m). And since we paid nothing for academy lads, they have a value of £0, meaning they are pure profit if sold. Basically, that means amortisation for the signings we've made over the last few seasons stacks up. So we're still 'paying for' Butterfield, Johnson etc, as well as Vydra, Anya, and anyone else we sign this summer. And by 'paying for' I don't mean we're necessarily handing over cash still, I mean we've got assets on the books which are losing value. Obviously clauses, and staged payments etc potentially complicate things. Selling Hendrick last season would have been pure profit, as he was 'worth' nothing at the time but would have only covered losses that season - effectively it's a one-off £10m cash injection. Selling Hughes this season would have the same effect. But selling someone like Blackman would be much less useful - he's probably a £2m player in 'book' terms (£3.5m on a 3.5 year deal, sold 18 months later), and I don't see that we'd get even get that for him, so in FFP terms we'd be better off keeping him. What this all means, is that we potentially risk getting stuck in a cycle of perpetually having to sell off a player to cover FFP losses. But then since we are cash-rich at that point, we can spend it on players on long contracts. But that just stacks up the losses meaning more big sales the next season. And with how players are valued, it's just creating a perverse incentive to flog your best academy lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: I don't understand this whole fecking football thing anymore. Friday I see Sunderland selling a goal keeper for 30 million, today I see we are selling our most gifted player for 8 million. He hasn't kicked on as we would have hoped, but he has been injured for large chunks. The transfer policy at this club has been nothing short of shambolic the last few years, it angers me so much. I am thinking of going to watch the women's cricket World Cup on Saturday, a sport that makes no sense to me may just seem normal at the minute. You kinda answered why he is only worth 8m atm. Sunderland sell a young keeper with potential who has just an a good season in the premier league. We're (potentially) selling a midfilder who hasn't really kicked on recently and has spent a lot of time injured. Pickford consistently stood out for Sunderland last season, when can you honestly say Hughes did for us, especially over a period of 5-6 games? I love Will and don't want him to go, but for his own career he probably needs a move (not saying Watford is the right one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 54 minutes ago, McLovin said: I keep hearing potential potential potential with Hughes. He is a talented player without a doubt but is he as good as people think he is? I think it's a case of many wearing ram tinted goggles. If he was as good as many make out, he would have moved to a top 6 prem team years ago. Comparing him to other talents around his same age from other countries with similar roles and responsibilities not for me and he isn't as good. I stated at the beginning of the year that for me, Hughes' ceiling is mid table premier league. You may agree or disagree but I see nothing from him that makes him particularly 'stand out'. Good player though. We're midtable championship, so that doesn't really follow. What do you think our ceiling is as a club?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: I understand the sentiment regarding Hughes and I agree the fee is low based on how us fans value him. Can we really keep a player on the bench (based on Rowett's previous team selections) when someone is happy to pay £8m+ on them? However, how much would you be happy for the club to pay on a 22yr old CM who doesn't score many goals and not done much for the past 2 seasons? We would be fuming if we paid 8m for someone like that. A lot are disappointed to spend around 1m on a CM who has played regular Prem + International football for the past 9 years. This ignores his qualities as a player. He offers ball retention, excellent passing and vision, and is a young gifted player. He is a mature player also. Plus a long time left on contract. I don't think we should sell however if he wants to join a premier league club and we use the money wisely I would expect a minimum of £10 m in today's market. I would say don't sell though. It would make us weaker and weaken promotion hopes in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: I understand the sentiment regarding Hughes and I agree the fee is low based on how us fans value him. Can we really keep a player on the bench (based on Rowett's previous team selections) when someone is happy to pay £8m+ on them? However, how much would you be happy for the club to pay on a 22yr old CM who doesn't score many goals and not done much for the past 2 seasons? We would be fuming if we paid 8m for someone like that. A lot are disappointed to spend around 1m on a CM who has played regular Prem + International football for the past 9 years. Also, a lot of fans aren't happy we paid 6m for Johnson yet that was off the back of him having the best season of his career and scoring more goals in that 1 season than Hughes has all together for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Leicester: Jonny Evans, £10 million, what say you? WBA: Not interested. Watford: Will Hughes, £8 million, what say you? DCFC: No real need to sell but oh go on then. We have invested tens of millions in our academy. Category 1, don't you know. Hughes pales in comparison to the £25 million wonderkids who will surely be in the first team once they have passed GCSE Performing Arts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Just now, Davide said: This ignores his qualities as a player. He offers ball retention, excellent passing and vision, and is a young gifted player. He is a mature player also. Plus a long time left on contract. I don't think we should sell however if he wants to join a premier league club and we use the money wisely I would expect a minimum of £10 m in today's market. I would say don't sell though. It would make us weaker and weaken promotion hopes in my opinion. Only makes us weaker if Hughes was going to be on the pitch? There is no doubting Hughes' ability but he hasn't really shown that the past 2 seasons, if he had a worldie of a season last season we would be getting 15m+ minimum but the simple fact is that he hasn't done much for 2 seasons now, if he isn't going to feature this season under Rowett how much would he be worth next summer and would any prem clubs still be in for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibby Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Good luck to him if he ends up going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Almost made me laugh. How can you be remotely close to laughing on a day like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadFly Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: I understand the sentiment regarding Hughes and I agree the fee is low based on how us fans value him. Can we really keep a player on the bench (based on Rowett's previous team selections) when someone is happy to pay £8m+ on them? However, how much would you be happy for the club to pay on a 22yr old CM who doesn't score many goals and not done much for the past 2 seasons? We would be fuming if we paid 8m for someone like that. A lot are disappointed to spend around 1m on a CM who has played regular Prem + International football for the past 9 years. This is so sensible and spot on! Don't see how it can be disputed really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jourdan said: Leicester: Jonny Evans, £10 million, what say you? WBA: Not interested. Watford: Will Hughes, £8 million, what say you? DCFC: No real need to sell but oh go on then. We have invested tens of millions in our academy. Hughes pales in comparison to the £25 million wonderkids who will surely be in the first team once they have passed GCSE Performing Arts. Is this really true? If Will comes out and says he never wanted to leave, then yes. But I think it will have been agreed with him for a long time that when he's ready to go, we won't stand in his way. That's why he's stayed here so long. If Will wants to leave, there's a definite need to sell. After all, what's he got to stay for? Rowett to get the sack in November and McClaren to return for third time lucky? It ain't 13/14 anymore, we're not a good club to develop your talent these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: How can you be remotely close to laughing on a day like this? Exactly. Every time I see Anya and Vydra I'll be able to think of Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: What this all means, is that we potentially risk getting stuck in a cycle of perpetually having to sell off a player to cover FFP losses. But then since we are cash-rich at that point, we can spend it on players on long contracts. But that just stacks up the losses meaning more big sales the next season. And with how players are valued, it's just creating a perverse incentive to flog your best academy lads. Oh yeh, I know how the system works - I've done some basic business management courses through work over the years so have a simple understanding of it However - There's been no indication from anyone at the club that Rowett needs to sell for anything other than footballing reasons - They've been fairly open saying that Rowett will be making signings before he sells anyone as well Maybe they already assumed at the end of last season that they'd sell Hughes? (or Ince assuming 2 years in long enough to make the profit margin enough) and they were already working to that in the books? My point generally is that we're speculating one way or the other based on trying to read between the lines of club/manager statements - I choose to assume any decision to buy/sell is based on football reasons until I find out otherwise - But would be VERY interested to find out what else is going on behind the scenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McMinn Football Genius Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 hours ago, tomsdubs said: We would be insane to accept such a miserly amount for such a talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I just can't believe there are Derby County fans who think selling Hughes for £8m is a good idea, or is in any way acceptable. How is that possible? Hughes is the most talented player that we've had at the club for years, we should be doing absolutely everything we can to keep him here, not selling him on for less than Jeff Hendrick, who is a significantly inferior player to Will. How is this making sense to people ? Are we this desperate for cash now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I'm staggered. I suspect John Percy is right and that a deal is close but £8 million for such a talented guy is shocking in my view when Jordan Pickford has just gone for £30 million. If that is the fee, Derby County are being mugged. By bloody Watford! I wouldn't sell Hughes full stop. If I had no choice, I would want £15 million. Last year we signed Vydra for £8 million and even Anya cost us £4m. Butterfield who isn't a shade on Will Hughes cost us £4.5m. Those Derby fans saying he had a poor season last year and it's time for Will to move on must think talented young English footballers grow on trees. I'm stupefied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Hughes is probably the best player I've seen come through our ranks in my lifetime. 8m is half of what I expect and I'm just hoping someone has got the figure very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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