Raich Carter

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

There's a separate thread about free agents - a world of difference between free agents and free transfers.

The majority of the players you quoted deliberately didn't sign a contract extension with their existing club exploiting the Bosman ruling safe in the knowledge that they would find another club prepared to pay them exorbitant wages as they would be saving money by not paying a transfer fee for them.

Free agents were released by their clubs and can't find another one - two totally different kettles of fishes.

Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good retort! You’re right, of course. 
 

I did think exactly what you said as I was typing but still, just because they’re out of contract doesn’t necessarily mean they’re poor or trouble. 

6 minutes ago, minesahartington said:

Our team reminds of “Kelly’s heroes” or the “ dirty dozen” … great films for the oldies

Rooney makes up for most of the 'dirty dozen' aspect on his own! 

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Is it almost nice to go into a season with low expectations for a change. Might make us appreciate it next time we do well. Ever since Zamora's goal, every defeat or sticky patch has been the end of the world.

Exactly. I said the same on the Florist game thread. After all the doom and gloom it was ridiculous how many were kicking off when in reality, given the state we're in, we're lucky to actually have a starting 11 and a full bench! Some Derby fans need a serious reality check I'm afraid.

Let's be clear (ohh I sounded a bit Tony Blair there) ; this season is about survival. We're a decent sized club potentially but we don't have any right to be anywhere but where we are. We made some mistakes but luckily, we might be big enough (in terms of fan base) to get out of it eventually.

But some fans really need to get a grip:

Those saying 'we need a 20 goal a season striker' need to get some brains. Every eff'ing club in the world wants/needs a 20 goal a season striker! 

And 'the players on free transfers are all dodgy' - Roberto Baggio, Steve McManaman, Sol Cambell, Pirlo and Ramos were all free eff'ing transfers so it's not as simple as 'they're free, something is wrong with them'. 

Just now, atherstoneram said:

Free agents are free agents for a reason or reasons, not as good as they think they are or injury prone. Asking for too much for signing on fee and salary or could be a disruptive influence in the dressing room.

Very true. And clubs like ours are also less than perfect...

I think Rooney fancies himself to handle difficult characters (having been one and having been around lots!) so he might take a chance on some of them. I quite like the excitement of taking a chance on the odd random. Some of us remember Taribo West where it was 50/50 as to whether he'd physically turn-up!

Connor Wickham is one of those that has had some fairly big transfers (in terms of £££) over the years but never quite worked out. I think he might be worth a risk... as is Norman IMO. Wilshere - what a player but I'd only take him on a pay-as-you-play deal as he's just had one problem after another but imagine him and Ravel on form... that would be immense (but unlikely, I'll admit).

Under-rated for me. A solid right back who needs games. Really surprised someone else hasn't come in for him.

I am not a fan of Roos but that save from Gabbidon was class and I some are a bit harsh on their goal as it was very hard. Yes, he should have just stuck out a boot but we’d then be saying he had a great game. And I’ll emphasise that I’m usually very anti Roos so I could just jump on the bandwagon but I think he’s being harshly treated (a bit). 
 

My 2p is that given our situation, Wazza is doing a decent job. I thought we’d be embarrassing this season but we actually look ok. My expectation for this season is survival and so far, that looks possible. 

I love watching Ravel on the ball. Not his best game today but he’s got something about him. And I though I’d really not like him due to his… chequered past so fair play to him. Seems quite humble and hard working. 

18 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Verbose, imaginative, emotive but excessively hyperbolic and often wildly inaccurate. He managed to create vivid memories for people of things that never really happened!

Rightfully loved at the time and remembered fondly, but would get absolutely slagged if he was commentating today, or rather someone else would if they had the same exact approach.

 

Agreed. Even at the time he had his detractors. At times they could get themselves into a tizz and forget the game was on. They'd be going on about how cold it was and how long the ladders were to get to the press room at Charlton for about 20 minutes. We could only assume the game was dull... Anyway, they had their charm. And all their nostalgic talk about the various grounds made me want to visit them - which I mostly did. Even Charlton...

20 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I would argue it's not that simple - any manager can do exceptionally well at a specific club - But equally any manager can also do exceptionally bad at another - There are examples everywhere of successful managers who have done poorly at one/two clubs - Mourinho won the league in 4 different countries yet he couldn't halt the slide at Spurs

You appoint an experience manager because they have an (on average) better record - A better chance of doing well for you - But it doesn't always pan out - Equally a newly appointed rookie may do really well for you (see Lampard)

I'm not saying I'd want to appoint any of these guys but Warnock, Jackett, McCarthy, Grayson, Adkins - They all get jobs because clubs know what they're going to get from them - Probably a short period of stabilisation and a pragmatic approach to gaining points

I think Rooney seems to understand he doesn't have the players to be winning every game 4-3 so he sets up to keep clean sheets and rely on a moment or two or brilliance from the likes of Lawrence/Morrison/Sibley etc to win him the game - A surprisingly pragmatic approach for a rookie manager and should be respected

I agree with this. There are many factors as to why a manager may succeed or not. Lamps had a LOT of support at Derby (look at where our loanees are now...) but class eventually shows. I don't think anyone would really doubt that Mourinho would have improved Spurs given time and money but the natives got restless and that's how it goes. 

As you say, the older, more experienced hands steady ships and get you so far but perhaps don't have the cache to attract stars nor the charisma to truly inspire. Perhaps Rooney is doing that job for our young players and Ravel - let's face it, Rooney has real-world experience of massive success (on-pitch) and failure (off-pitch) so he can relate. If you're Jags and the other experienced lads, you either know him or just want to be part of something more interesting than being yorped at by an old twit in tucked-in trackies (I'm glaring at you Warnock you fkn dinosaur).

Truth is, no-one knows if Rooney is any good or not because it's only time that will tell. Personally, I think he's got a VERY difficult job, I do think we'd attract other managers but I'm not sure they'd be as positive or 'let's crack on' as Rooney is because they need the money/the job so want to make sure they hang onto it. I think Rooney's only motivation is to make us as successful as he can so he can move onwards and upwards - with or without us I suspect (which is fair enough). That's a very different mentality to 'managing' upwards as perhaps a journey-man manager might need to.

If Rooney was sacked, I'd want Clough back. He loves (loved...?) the club and can do a job with little money. Yes, we'd be awful to watch and I'd probably be calling for his head 3 years later but right now, if Rooney went, I'd trust Nigel to do a job. Not that he'd come back.

If we're lucky and we get a combination / all of; he's finally grown-up, Rooney helps him short or long term, he settles in Derby, his troubles are behind him, etc, etc then he'll be excellent for us. His ability is not in doubt so if he's having a good time on the pitch then perhaps that'll help him settle off it.

I love the way he always wants the ball, is clearly a natural and is some true flair in the squad which we've been missing (well, apart from Lawrence's 2.5 games of the season). 

When's Bieklik back...? As someone else said, with him and/or Jackson back, we have a decent midfield with, dare I say it, some options! Obviously it'll take Bielik 2-3 months of playing to actually be back to form and perhaps Rooney will play him as CB...?

1 hour ago, ossieram said:

I'm not missing the point at all, I just don't agree with you. 

Hold on, I didn't even say it!

And it's a fact, not something you can actually disagree on. Unless you think DCFC are special and have more 'bad luck' (which doesn't exist) than any other team.

6 hours ago, ossieram said:

I don't go along with this.

There have been plenty of occasions where teams have lost games due to either the ref having a stinker or an opposition player cheating. These are points that you never get back.

I also don't believe that it evens up over the season. 

You're missing the point. The same misfortune / inconsistencies would apply to other clubs in our league so it evens itself out - i.e. it's not that we literally get a piece of luck to allow an offside goal or get a favourable decision from a ref to balance the opposite events previously...

19 hours ago, DCFC27 said:

Talking nonsense there. 

Roos was brought in because Carson seemed incapable commanding his area in the first half of the season. Roos came in and commanded his area caught crossed played out from the back and made some really good saves. As a matter of fact without him Leeds would have been in the final. 
The final mistake IMO haunted him in the Cocu seasons and he needed a sustained period out of the squad. 
Hopefully he can put that to bed now and go back to the goalkeeper he was for that period under Lamps 

He is not talking nonsense.

Yes, Carson, a seasoned veteran, had a bad spell but would have worked his way through it. In my opinion, Roos' distribution was shocking - dallying on the ball, many scuffed clearances, etc. There were many simple crosses he flapped at and generally, was a backwards step. He was and is, in my opinion, extremely poor. 

Of all the keepers we've had, I've never been so nervous. He's not great at anything (e.g. Taylor was a great shot-stopper, Poom great on crosses, etc) and isn't even reliable so I'm really not sure what he brings. I'd rather have a solid stopper than a flappy, inconsistent over-confident 'playmaker'.  

5 hours ago, maydrakin said:

Couldn’t care less about how he looks - as long as he keeps the ball out of the net, he can save it however he likes.

Is he up to Poom or Shilton’s level?  No, but he is a better keeper than you give him credit for, and he’s certainly better than a fair few keepers in the championship… (including two at Derby)

I disagree but sincerely hope he proves me wrong.

2 hours ago, maydrakin said:

Did it go in?

By complete and utter sheer luck, no.  Did it make him look a complete ar5e? Yes. 

33 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Jagielka will probably be our best ‘keeper too! 

Very much the 'tallest dwarf' award! Roos' 'save' from that 30 yarder against P'boro was frankly embarrassing. I honestly don't think he's good enough to be a professional goalkeeper, let alone one in the Championship - his positioning, anticipation, reactions and basically everything needed to keep goal was missing in that one moment. Shocking goalie. Anyway, as you were! ?

Thing is, if Jags himself didn't think he had anything to offer, why would be bother to keep playing? He's made enough money to not need to play and probably had lots of offers to play lower league stuff so I'm leaning towards this being a good thing... optimistic fool that I am.

Not so long ago, a 32 year old was about finished, let alone 39! We now have Ronaldo at 36 as top scorer in Serie A, Ibra still being in the top 10 players in the world at 39 and Chiellieni at 37 still bossing things at the back for Italy. With sports science having moved on and players taking more care of themselves, their careers are much longer than previously.

Let's face it, we could do with a bit of luck so Jags doing a Paul McGrath would be a god-send this season.

38 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

We should have gone and got 2 loans in.  Clement supposedly had connections at Real Madrid, Chelsea etc, so just go to them and say we've got 2 guaranteed spots in our midfield free for the season, who can we have?  We play decent football, they'll play every week, so they benefit.  We maybe only spend £1m a piece on loan fees instead of the £10m+ we spent on Johnson and Butterfield.  It's win-win for everyone.

Because it's that easy... Come on lads, whatever you think about how it's gone, these guys are bright. If we could have got loans rather than replacements for £XXXXXXX then they would - obviously!

23 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I'd imagine he's donating this unnecessary loose change to charity then?

Do you give all your spare change to a charity...? Just saying... It's very easy to just say 'they've got money so they have no problems' but it's all relative. To a starving kid in Ethopia, a poor man here has massively more wealth and will, from his perspective, waste money on 'pointless' stuff (a pint, a cigarette, a branded shirt, etc) so if he doesn't donate all of his 'spare' change, why should a rich man? 

11 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Wayne Rooney has an estimated wealth of £122m - whatever reason he's here, it's not for the money. To put that in perspective, if he spent £90k a week, with not a penny of interest, it would be more than 30 years before he needed to worry.

Well said. That interview last night was the most natural I've seen him do and the first where I've actually remotely liked him. He came across as honest and like he cared. 

My view is that he's staying because he's a tenacious bugger. He's on a hiding to nothing really in that if we survive, it's because we're a big'ish club; if we go down then he's not all that of a manager is he. Whichever way you look at it, it's far lower risk for him to leave as no-one would blame him and start with a less troubled club (i.e. any other club in the English league!).

So overall, fair play to him for sticking it out. I'm not sure I would have and I'm a fan! ?

42 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I've said before - The internet has been the death of the DET football coverage

They used to be an essential mouthpiece for the club to get information to the fans - In the days where their options were posting something on the wall of the ground, posting a letter, or using the local newspaper

These days the club can tweet, post online, talk to any one of the many forums knocking around (none better than this one obvs) and in many other ways communicate with the fanbase (whether or not they choose to...)

Unfortunately that means the DET have little use to the club any more - The chaps over there need to work harder and harder to justify their salaries and thus churn out nonsense articles to try and generate clicks (and therefore ad revenue)

The internet is the death of local newspapers full stop. There are now 12 people at the DET... It can only be regarded as a tiny, little pathetic ad machine now unfortunately. 

Nicho is a great guy btw and he shouldn't take any of this personally. He's doing his best in a pretty awful situation and fair play to him for hanging on for so long.

11 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Everything he has done is wrong.

 

Another perspective and some mitigating factors (in no particular order):

• COVID19
• Backed his managers
• Cancer treatment 
• Blaggers trying to takeover the club 
• Selling academy players not necessarily his choice (i.e. they can go if they want to via tribunal)
• Sam Rush

I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes but my take on it is he showed ambition but due to a number of factors, it clearly didn't work. I think it's harsh to be say everything he's done is wrong. It's not like he tried to rob the club as previous owners have. He took a shot... he missed. If we had Clough here playing durge-ball you'd all be moaning about the lack of ambition probably. 

4 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

.Dawes more interested in telling us that there are pigeons flying over the ground than providing an accurate description of the game…oh for the days of Mr Richards…

Who would do exactly the same but in a MUCH more entertaining fashion. ?

On 28/07/2021 at 08:36, enachops said:

Probably the best player our academy has produced. He can do a job for someone at this level I’m sure. What a player he would have been if he could run! 

Will Hughes maybe? Time will tell. 

9 hours ago, Rev said:

Wilshire and Bielik, should've been class,

Soon found out, they were made of glass.

 

Class players both
Injuries limited their growth

Perhaps they'll have another shot at success
But unlikely as we're a fkn mess.