Tombo

The admins haven't lied to him. He said nobody would be leaving without his say so, and I believe he's gone along with this, probably after a pitch from the admins pointing out the difference it could make to the clubs running costs and the fact he comes back on loan

Totally get where you're coming from, and I found it quite interesting as a point of discussion.

However, I fall into the "nah" camp, respectfully

Like I said, good post though

Would like to say it was a minority but the vast majority of Birmingham fans I encountered were vile. Think a few may be waking up a bit embarrassed this morning.

I'm not making sweeping statements about their fans or their club or if this lot were representative of BCFC, but I have to go on what I saw and heard which was largely morons

I preferred 20k fans. Got some serious morons screaming at the players every single touch. Surely they're under enough pressure without our own fans laying it on them

Not just him but this whole squad.

This Derby team will likely win us no trophies, no silverware or medals, provide no glorious drubbings or incredible winning runs. Yet they are among my favourite Derby sides to watch and they make me as proud as any Derby team I've ever seen.

And Wayne leads them. He has created a truly iconic, historic, heroic squad that I will never forget.

If this is the last ever Derby County squad we see in its current incarnation, then they're the best you could realistically hope for. If the club died, we'd be going out in a blaze of glory

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Where's the Finnish lady? Has he Finnished with her?  

She's not finished, she's 28

It's entirely possible that the bidders are going through the owners and directors test and that is why the deadline is extended.

If Quantuma have gone to the EFL and said "one of these parties is our proof of funding, when we name them preferred bidder". But they can't name one as a preferred bidder because they may not pass the test. And if they don't pass the test they're not a credible source of funding until the end of the season.

So all parties go through the next hurdle, then we're in a position to make one PB by the end of Feb and use them as proof of funding.

That's pure guesswork though

My heart sank when I saw this topic revived with new posts, and then rose again when I actually read it

What a guy

At the very least, you make it a more lucrative deal medium to long term when it's up for renegotiation so it supports the club that way

Whether we have a medium or long term however...

29 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

https://mywordle.me/?word=nodpj

Also got yours in 3/6

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3/6

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Still managed to get it

1 minute ago, IslandExile said:

ITK ?

Only possibly

3 minutes ago, Derbados said:

You’ve been watching to many Boris Johnson speeches 

To quote Ron Atkinson

"Either side could win it, or it could be a draw"

That's about the shape of things

In summary, there may be good news. Or it could be bad news.

It could be today. Or possibly tomorrow. Or possibly by the end of the week.

It might drag on until the end of Feb. Or it might not. Or it might be the end of the season. Or also not.

And we could get a 15 point deduction next season. Then again, that could also not happen. Or it could happen this season.

And we've had some information from people who say they know what's going on. That said, they might not actually know.

So in summary, that's what we know about what's going on. Precisely absolutely nothing. But it's got us all riled up as it might be important.

Then again, it might not be.

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I repeat the club is not liquidated. The Company that owns the club may be  liquidated, it's a Corporate insolvency event. The club, its badge, its honours, its playing strip maybe even some of its players , still playing at the same ground probably and with the same fans and the same history. Its the same club. It will never die whatever happens. . 

I think we're on different pages here. If we don't pay the football creditors in full then we lose our golden share. If we are liquidated there is very little chance that all gets met, especially if Boro and Wycombe are part of that. The outcome you're talking about is far from certain.

I'm going to leave this there though and don't want to respond on it further. I don't think we agree and I'm all good with that ?

15 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Good post, although I disagree.

Think it's splitting hairs really. If it's called Derby County, and plays at Derby County's ground, in Derby County colours and the same fans support them, then it's Derby County.

Just cos a piece of legal paper that no normal person is gonna ever read has a slightly different name on it doesn't alter that for me.

What is a club in any case?

I guess I'm saying that Triggers broom remains Triggers broom regardless of how many heads and handles it's had.

And Rangers are still Rangers. 

I do understand that viewpoint, and I think the purpose of my post is that yes, Trigger's Broom remains the same broom. However it remains the same broom because the head is changed, then the handle. Just like the Ship of Theseus where every individual part is changed over time. Over time is the key part.

If Trigger went out and got a brand new handle and head at the same time, and got rid of the old one, it's not the same broom is it? It remains the same because the incremental change over time continues the spirit of the original object

Like I said, it's philosophy beyond what a football club should be subjected to.

All in all, I probably feel the way I do because it feels a bit defeatist to even think about League Two right now. Not to criticise those who see it as an optimistic view that we at least have League Two to fall back on. But a few months back League One was a certainty,but pure concentrated power of will has changed that. We've still got a club to fight for and I think that should be front and centre of our thoughts.

What happens if the club is liquidated is what happens. As it is, some incredible effort from fans and the people of Derby and surrounding areas have made liquidation far far less likely. Let's move in that direction. I don't want "basically the same thing", I want the real DCFC

12 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I disagree with the first point.  I agree with the second point. I agree with most of the third point. But overall I just believe that Mel, despite his wealth and the fact he was born locally was simply never the right fit to be the custodian of Derby County.

What has happened to the club can't be undone. I do not believe for one minute Mel intended or wanted it end in dismal failure. He wanted to be the successful local benefactor who delivered the  dream of of establishing the club as a stable fixture in the Premier League. He said that when he told us he had been a fan since 1969 and that his wealth put him in a position to do for Derby what the Coates family had done for Stoke. That was his dream but the reality is that in the end it turned out to be just that - a dream and nothing more. We became a rich man's toy and the toy is now broken.

I do not agree with the fans who wish to insult him and abuse him. Many of those were singing loudly 'He's one of our own' not so long ago. Insults are not going to solve things. Mel has moved on. He will not be proud of what happened. I am sure he is hurting. We are still here and we should leave him alone so we can concentrate on what lies ahead. We Are Derby and it those that remain at the club we should give our full attention to.

My worries about Mel's suitability as the custodian of our club came to the fore in 2015 during the Paul Clement era when in a very short time we spent heavily on Andreas Weimann, Tom Ince, Jason Shackell, Bradley Johnson, Jacob Butterfield, Abdul Camara and Nick Blackman. Chris Baird, Alex Pearce, Scott Carson and Darren Bent also joined for very little in terms of transfer fees but all were on high wages. The wage bill was way too high for a Championship club to remain within the P&S rules. So just a year after Mel's takeover we were on the road to financial ruin and we have been on it ever since until our fall into administration which, little known to the fanbase, had been increasingly inevitable for quite some time.

On top of that, there was no stability whatsoever during Mel's reign with the constant turnover of head coaches. In my time of watching the club, there has been four distinct eras of on-field success; the eras of Brian Clough, Dave Mackay, Arthur Cox and Jim Smith. Those were accompanied, for the most part by support and patience from the board room. For just one season, Peter Gadsby's League of Gentlemen can be added to that list.

On top of that, the contractual settlements for the departing head coaches, Sam Rush and Richard Keogh was enormous. I estimate that cost about £40m. Given that we received about £5m compensation from Stoke and Chelsea when Rowett and Lampard departed, the net cost would be around £35m, which exceeds the amount we now owe to HMRC.

It was a huge gamble which we now know Mel lost heavily. But right up to the point of Cocu's first season, while the financial base of the club was under immense strain, Mel kept feeding us optimistic promises. But for the past two years, the optimism ceased and so did the communication from Mel to the fans. He kept us in the dark. While many of us were worried about what state the club was in, none of us knew the full horrors. Only Mel and Stephen Pearce knew that while they hawked the club to potential buyers. Knowing what we know now, it is small wonder that credible business people steered well clear as we went through the charade and hope that the Emirates consortium and Erik Alonso would save us. It is true that CoVid was the final blow but really it only brought the inevitable forward by a few months.

Mel is about three years younger than me and we went to the same school. The only thing I recall about him from those days is that he had a notorious aversion to sport. One of the biggest challenges for the PE teachers was getting him into the gym and onto the sports fields. He simply didn't want to know. None of his peers can ever remember Mel showing even a remote interest in Derby County during the halcyon days of the 1970s. It is said locally by people who know Mel that he did not attend a Derby game until past the millennium when he first went with another local businessman. The first time he was ever known around the club was when he joined the board as part of Peter Gadsby's League of Gentlemen consortium that rescued the club from the Three Amigos. But even then Mel's voice was never publicly heard.

So it was some surprise to some of us when Mel took over in 2014, announcing himself as a life long fan. He seemed to think that he knew all about the football business and we couldn't understand how but it's now clear he didn't. Other owners at other clubs, particularly some who came from overseas, made exactly the same mistake and they too got their fingers burned badly. Remember Fawaz at Forest and Tony Xia at Villa?

That is why I find hope in the Appleby and Ashley interest in taking over our club. They are businessmen with a track record of also running football clubs. I just hope any future owners of our club take heed of the mistakes of the Mel era. But then again I had the same hopes back in 1984 when Stuart Webb brokered a deal with Robert Maxwell at the last minute in the toilets of the High Court to save us from liquidation.

Time for us all to move on and forgive and forget with hope in our hearts. COYR.

8 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So how is it different to Leeds United? Or Wigan?

Players stayed, academy stayed, staff stayed, stadium stayed, training facilities stayed, team were relegated on the pitch rather than banished 2 entire leagues and told to start again.

I pretty much said that above, we need threads of continuation otherwise it won't be DCFC

55 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Let's be honest, Kirchner walked away because of 1 person, according to him. Gibson made reference to everyone taking a hair cut, except for 1 person.  And now Nixon is suggesting Ashley is interested but 1 person needs to lower their demands for this to happen. 1 person got us into this mess and 1 person is now standing in the way and his mates at Q at blaming everyone else for the day except him..who is this person I hear you ask...

"Hi kids, do you like signings?

Wanna see me sign 9 new players each summer on high wages?

Wanna copy me and do exactly like I did?

Fail P&S and repeatedly try to hide it?"

Even if we started in League Two as a "new" entity but were still called Derby County Football Club, we'd never hear the end of it. Just ask Rangers.

And there'd be a part of you too that would feel something went missing. If we were relegated on the pitch, that's a continuation. If we're talking about a whole new squad, a whole new manager, a whole new owner, a whole new home venue (at least in the short term), a whole new training ground, a whole new league with entirely different circumstances, you've lost the threads of continuation.

I know we're delving into philosophy here but it's similar to the Ship of Theseus, or for a more pop culture reference, Trigger's Broom.

If we can't feasibly tie any new parts of the club together to the old, it's not what it used to be. Incremental change means we can honestly say our club is a continuation of that which was a founder member of the league. A continuation of '46, '72 and '75 amongst other glories.

A badge and a name is not enough to still be the same DCFC I'm afraid. We have to survive, otherwise we cannot honestly believe in ourselves that we have a continuous history from 1884 to 2022.

138 unbroken years must not be broken

1 minute ago, Mckram said:

He’s paid us by putting in millions every year to keep us afloat. The season we sold the stadium for £80m we made a profit of £14m…only £14m. So that means he’s effectively paid £66m out on wages/transfer fees/heat/light/power etc.

I guarantee he paid and more. 

That's hardly the point is it? He repossessed the stadium to pay debts that he got us in to 

5 minutes ago, Mckram said:

I’d assume that it just sat as money owed to Mel Morris, there definitely won’t have been any physical transfer of money. It was purely paper based for FFP. 

Right, but the money is owed to Derby County Football Club, who previously owned the stadium, not Mel Morris. So has he paid us?

16 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Like you, I was critical of Rooney last year, but crikey has he won me over.  This season he’s shown he’s got what it takes to be a top class manager.  Through all the adversity he’s built a team that, in my opinion, would do anything he asked and he’s got the fans on side.

Lots of us owe him big apologies, that is for sure. Me included.

Sorry Wayne

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Wasn’t that figure used purely for FFP purposes !

Yeah but it can't have been made up, surely there actually exists an agreement signed by Morris and the club that states he is to pay this figure?

As @Gritstone Ramsays above, maybe he offset it against a loan we owed him. Which is a serious Bamford move if so. Repossess the stadium from the club he purports to love

With regards to the stadium, I have a question on this. When MM bought the stadium for £80m, one assumes we haven't actually had that £80m lump sum?

If we have, where did it all go? I know we have massive losses but that is obscene.

If we haven't, when can we expect the money from him? How can he own the stadium if he hasn't paid us for it yet?