Stick or Twist?

[Archied]

10 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

There's so many you can name where you watch them play for years and think "he's bang average"

And then he joins a side, plays under a manager whose system just suits him perfectly, and wow! Whole new player.

How many of ours players completely transformed under McClaren? 

I think Ebou just works here. But, as the pundits said on sportscene last night, Ebou needs to have a controller next to him.

Ebou can disrupt the opposition and get us the ball back, but he's going to need someone who can pass the ball and drive forward with it next to him. 

Think it also about how a manager treats players and the culture at the club , so much is often about confidence and feeling good about themselves , it can transform players , I certainly think this is an area that some warne detractors got totally wrong about what was going on inside the club when we wernt quite getting the results we all wanted 

[Wolfie20]

Keep the existing contract and barring a disastrous start to the first 3 months of next season, evaluate our progress then consider a further one year extension if our performances warrant it.

[FindernRam]

I find some of this debate a bit demeaning to PW. This is the guy who negotiated himself a 4 year contract with a very clever business man! He then took over the football at a club that was almost dead, with very limited resource and in 2 seasons got us up.

Look at that record as an unbiased outsider and you see a very sharp cookie.

I'm sure if he wants an extension he will know just when to ask, equally DC will offer one when the time is right.

[Charliegeorge1962]

PW will have new players in know doubt about that.

It's whether we find ourselves mid table or top half by Xmas.

Not too sure of PW's record in the Championship?

Seems to be the one that can get a team up from league 1 but ......

Let's stay as we are regarding contracts and see how we are in the Championship first.

Xmas 24 maybe a time to look at and make decisions for the future.

You never know we could do an Ipswich now that would fantastic!

[therealhantsram]

9 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

 

Look at that record as an unbiased outsider and you see a very sharp cookie.

 

Looking at his record as an outsider you see a club with the highest wage bill in League 1, and a squad where most of the best performers this season were in the building before Warne arrived.

[therealhantsram]

7 minutes ago, Charliegeorge1962 said:

PW will have new players in know doubt about that.

It's whether we find ourselves mid table or top half by Xmas.

Not too sure of PW's record in the Championship?

Seems to be the one that can get a team up from league 1 but ......

Let's stay as we are regarding contracts and see how we are in the Championship first.

Xmas 24 maybe a time to look at and make decisions for the future.

You never know we could do an Ipswich now that would fantastic!

Ipswich had a young team and spent a fortune putting it together. We have an old team that apart from the odd few, needs a complete rebuild.

 

[ck-]

57 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Great point, i was watching Ipswich the other day and thought exactly this 

players surprise u sometimes. 

Best example of this in my opinion was Geraint Williams. 
He was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we played bottom of the table 3rd division teams. 
He was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we played top of the table 3rd division teams. 
He was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we played 2nd division teams. 
And then he was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we made it to the top flight and played 1st division teams. 

He never appeared truly a class above the level he was playing at, yet he clearly was. 

[Nuwtfly]

41 minutes ago, Archied said:

Think it also about how a manager treats players and the culture at the club , so much is often about confidence and feeling good about themselves , it can transform players , I certainly think this is an area that some warne detractors got totally wrong about what was going on inside the club when we wernt quite getting the results we all wanted 

You could well be right!

But in fairness I think the moderate “Warne Detractors” were just more concerned with the football being played more than anything else 

[Stive Pesley]

You can bet that Clowes plan does not involve extending PWs contract any time soon

He hired Warne specifically for his experience in getting teams out of L1. A very canny move that worked

No reason to suggest that Clowes will suddenly start taking stupid risks in the Championship with a manager unproven in that league

My guess would be that Clowes keeps faith in PW until it becomes clear that it's not working, at which point he will execute his Plan B and get an experienced proven Championship manager in

PW is effectively in Rosenior's shoes

[Charliegeorge1962]

55 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Ipswich had a young team and spent a fortune putting it together. We have an old team that apart from the odd few, needs a complete rebuild.

 

We need the spine of the team with experience. And a few fresh players around the older experienced players.

Remember when Cloughie brought in Dave MacKay people said he was past it. Cloughie put some younger players  around him as you never lose the football brain.

75 we we won the league i think we had half the team around 30 years old.

We need experience.

Edited April 30 by Charliegeorge1962

[sage]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

I find some of this debate a bit demeaning to PW. This is the guy who negotiated himself a 4 year contract with a very clever business man! He then took over the football at a club that was almost dead, with very limited resource and in 2 seasons got us up.

Look at that record as an unbiased outsider and you see a very sharp cookie.

I'm sure if he wants an extension he will know just when to ask, equally DC will offer one when the time is right.

So you are saying we shouldn't discuss and debate stuff like this?

[Kathcairns]

2 hours ago, Charliegeorge1962 said:

We need the spine of the team with experience. And a few fresh players around the older experienced players.

Remember when Cloughie brought in Dave MacKay people said he was past it. Cloughie put some younger players  around him as you never lose the football brain.

75 we we won the league i think we had half the team around 30 years old.

We need experience.

Paul Magrath comes to mind also.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

You can bet that Clowes plan does not involve extending PWs contract any time soon

He hired Warne specifically for his experience in getting teams out of L1. A very canny move that worked

No reason to suggest that Clowes will suddenly start taking stupid risks in the Championship with a manager unproven in that league

My guess would be that Clowes keeps faith in PW until it becomes clear that it's not working, at which point he will execute his Plan B and get an experienced proven Championship manager in

PW is effectively in Rosenior's shoes

I don't think he's that sort of chairman, without walking around following him all day.  I get a feeling he's more of a Pickering who'd hang on to a manager that bit too long like Jim Smith once he's forged a relationship .   Fantastic as he was for 5 years, once McClaren left and we were very much in the red with bad buys, 3 more assistant managers and two relegation battles 2 years later, a change should have been made.  He didn't want too late his mate go and even offered to pay him to watch games and do nowt.

[MadAmster]

Leave as is. 

Why? Well, he is the L1 Guardiola but based on his first 2 stints in the SBC with Rotherham, he's more like the SBC Zola or Rooney.

Fair play in his 3rd stint with them he had them 8th and, if they won their game in hand, potentially 5th after 10 games. he lfet to come to us and they dropped to 19th and got relegated this season. I'm still of the opinion the 2 relegations say more about RUFC than they do about PW. Their fans were praising his football there in those opening games. Proper football, not Warneball they said.

He may well have learned what does and doesn't work in the SBC. We shall see. We need to see decent results and proper football. I hope he delivers both. By decent results, anything better than midtable would be a bonus, and a very welcome one, at that.

[SSD]

As much as I think Paul Warne has done wonders for the dressing room, culture behind the scenes at the football club, he still hasn't proven himself as a Championship level manager. This is why I'd keep him on the same deal then see how we go after a season. 

For all the gamers out there, it feels like Warne has played the game on the "League One difficulty" a number of times , knows how to navigate the problems and could probably finish it in his sleep. He still has a point to prove at another level which is probably why he was very calm at the weekend. He's won the battle but he knows he hasn't finished the war.

That doesn't mean to say he can't hack it at Championship level. With some more fire power upfront and a new midfield, he's got every chance.

Edited April 30 by SSD

[Ambitious]

No need to offer Warne a new contract until we consolidate in the Championship. We've got a significant rebuild ahead of us this summer and he's tasked with it. If he makes a success of it and we consolidate in the Championship then I agree he deserves a new contract, but until that point the contract he was awarded when he signed would've been given on the pretence this was a given. 

I'm not going to hammer his record at the Championship - we had a (much) higher wage bill under Rooney during our relegation season than he was ever-afforded at Rotherham and we know how difficult that season was. Fortunately we had a ripened category one academy to call upon. He never had that at Rotherham. The last full season he had at Championship level, Rotherham's overall wage bill was £7m - potentially £5.5-6m on the first-team? Average wage of roughly £5-6k a week. He still managed to get players like Viktor Johansson, Michael Ihiekwe, Michael Smith, Daniel Barlaser, Ben Wiles, Freddie Ladapo and others. 

The difficulty for Rotherham to be competitive at Championship level is bordering on impossible. They're cut away from everyone else in the league and when they do find a good player, develop them, they're often pinched by another club and they have to start again. 

[NottsRam77]

5 hours ago, ck- said:

Best example of this in my opinion was Geraint Williams. 
He was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we played bottom of the table 3rd division teams. 
He was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we played top of the table 3rd division teams. 
He was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we played 2nd division teams. 
And then he was just a bit better than the opposing midfielders when we made it to the top flight and played 1st division teams. 

He never appeared truly a class above the level he was playing at, yet he clearly was. 

Couldnt agree more, great example 

[NottsRam77]

6 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

There's so many you can name where you watch them play for years and think "he's bang average"

And then he joins a side, plays under a manager whose system just suits him perfectly, and wow! Whole new player.

How many of ours players completely transformed under McClaren? 

I think Ebou just works here. But, as the pundits said on sportscene last night, Ebou needs to have a controller next to him.

Ebou can disrupt the opposition and get us the ball back, but he's going to need someone who can pass the ball and drive forward with it next to him. 

Agree completely

look at that leicester side that won the title 

robert huth, marc albrighto… danny simpson was it (someone simpson) all total cast offs and ud never in a million years have them as title winning players but they played a system that suited them to a tee 
 

[Jourdan]

Just now, NottsRam77 said:

People will get bogged down with individuals, when we have to think about the team as a whole.

We don’t necessarily need 11 outstanding individuals to prosper, but we do need individuals that complement the players around them and make the sum of the parts that much better.

As mentioned before, look at the current Ipswich squad. On an individual basis, very few of them if any would have been considered a top Championship player last summer and probably still aren’t now.

However with good coaching and man-management, as a unit, they look fantastic and have carried confidence and momentum through into this season and they are very much deserving of their place in the promotion picture.

The beauty of next season is everyone starts on zero and if we start our preparations today, we have a head start on over a third of the division.

[angieram]

You've got to ask yourself why Paul Warne and his team came to Derby, when he could have probably stayed at Rotherham, kept them up a season, probably come back down second season, re-grouped and gone up again.

A job for life. Safe and steady.

Him and his team came because they have ambition. They want to have a go at taking a club further than they'll ever take Rotherham.

It was a calculated risk, hence negotiating a four year deal. They've delivered the first part of their plan and will be determined to deliver more. I think that's why his response to promotion has been muted, to say the least.

He's partway through the job and I don't think he's expecting an extension. But he and his team have shown good learning over the course of the season.

Let's see how they do in the Championship first. I think they've earned at least another season.