Ram-Alf Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I'm not sure where I sit on this I could fall either side of the fence, She was 15 years old when she bailed out of the UK to join Isis, Her 2 companions have since died/killed, She was not old enough in law to have a sexual relationship so still a child, She was no fool as she was able to get to Turkey and driven to Syria where she married an Isis fighter had children by him...and now stuck in a camp. Bangladesh has refused her citizenship after her UK citizenship was withdrawn, She now becomes Stateless with nowhere to go, Should a chance have been taken on bringing her here or was the Government right in withdrawing her last hope, Would she have been a target, Would she have been given a new identity and a secret address...like the Murderers of James Bulger? Play with the Devil and there's consequences I guess AndyinLiverpool and Alph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 She is, or was, a British citizen so she's our problem. She should be brought back here and tried accordingly. If that means she spends years, decades or even life in jail here then so be it. What constitutes an appropriate sentence is for another debate. Could you imagine the outrage from the Daily Mail readers if foreign countries refused to accept responsibility for their citizens who commit crimes in Britain when we go to deport them after their jail sentence? 'Sorry guv, we've revoked Pablo's Italian citizenship, you deal with it.' She was, and may well still be, a moron with a reprehensible moral compass, but given that she was born in England and lived here for the first 15 years of her life, the bottom line is she is a British moron. A homegrown moron if you prefer. A problem which we should deal with according to our laws. Grumpy Git, Comrade 86, therealhantsram and 9 others 4 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 My general thoughts on citizenship is that it is permanent, that allowing the state to withdraw it sets a precedence. Leaving someone stateless appears an unacceptable situation, pressing some other state to take over the responsibilities of the original state of citizenry hardly seems a suitable solution either. Tamworthram, Alph, Highgate and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I think it's dangerous that you can have your citizenship given by birth taken away on the basis that you're eligible/hold other citizenship. therealhantsram and Alph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 56 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said: I'm not sure where I sit on this I could fall either side of the fence, She was 15 years old when she bailed out of the UK to join Isis, Her 2 companions have since died/killed, She was not old enough in law to have a sexual relationship so still a child, She was no fool as she was able to get to Turkey and driven to Syria where she married an Isis fighter had children by him...and now stuck in a camp. Bangladesh has refused her citizenship after her UK citizenship was withdrawn, She now becomes Stateless with nowhere to go, Should a chance have been taken on bringing her here or was the Government right in withdrawing her last hope, Would she have been a target, Would she have been given a new identity and a secret address...like the Murderers of James Bulger? Play with the Devil and there's consequences I guess Similarly I’m totally conflicted on this one 🤷♂️ Alph and Ram-Alf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Couldn't that Twixxer bloke step in here, with a free one way trip to Mars or summat? 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 To be honest, I'm trying to care less about what happens to her but don't think it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Wolfie said: To be honest, I'm trying to care less about what happens to her but don't think it's possible. But imagine if she was your problem to make a decision on. What would you say? I'm in the conflicted as feckery camp. Archied 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Alph said: But imagine if she was your problem to make a decision on. What would you say? I'm in the conflicted as feckery camp. She ain't! With respect, I'm going to respond to this... particularly the emboldened bit... on a personal level... mate to mate... ... and all whilst posting on an internet forum built specifically to discuss matters far and wide, and therefore being a little contradictory/hypocritical. (Me, not you!)... 1/ It ain't your problem. 2/ There ain't nothing you can do about it. 3/ Your opinion... if and when you make one... won't have the slightest bearing on any outcome... should an outcome ever be reached. And now for something far more important, and yet so far off topic I risk a ban... IMO... In my opinion... IN MY OPINION!!!... 4/ Far too many people worry/concern themselves/give consideration to stuff that they can do nothing about. 5/ I'm surrounded by folk (Out here in real life) that analyse the feck out of such stuff with one hand, whilst with the other hand, throw hints and claims relating to mental infirmities/stress/lack of sleep/mentally-related health issues/anxiety/etc/etc. I truly believe the two go hand in hand.* My boss in particular, and my wife to a lesser extent, are both "guilty" of the above. As are others a little further out in my life. If anything in life "drives me crazy", it's this! "Why analyse it"? I cry! "Why lie awake thinking about it?". "Why make yourself ill over it?" "How the hell is this ever going to affect your life? It ain't, so let it go"! Chill. Relax. Enjoy the good which is all around us. "Mental health" is going through the roof! We don't help ourselves. *I fully appreciate there are those out there who of course, have mental health issues effected/caused by actual problems directly affecting them, and which they cannot solve. Let's concentrate our efforts on helping them. I'm a big fan of that (And family history, hopefully all in the past now, touch wood!) Analysing and/or worrying about stuff nigh on a stratosphere away is not healthy... I repeat... In my opinion! There. I feel better now! 👀 #chilledasfeck,me! 🤍 Alph and Ewe Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Getting all worked up over what others get all worked up over gets me all worked up and that gets Mrs ramit all worked up and now I am getting the silent treatment. Thanks @Mucker1884 Ram-Alf, Eddie and Mucker1884 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: She ain't! With respect, I'm going to respond to this... particularly the emboldened bit... on a personal level... mate to mate... ... and all whilst posting on an internet forum built specifically to discuss matters far and wide, and therefore being a little contradictory/hypocritical. (Me, not you!)... 1/ It ain't your problem. 2/ There ain't nothing you can do about it. 3/ Your opinion... if and when you make one... won't have the slightest bearing on any outcome... should an outcome ever be reached. And now for something far more important, and yet so far off topic I risk a ban... IMO... In my opinion... IN MY OPINION!!!... 4/ Far too many people worry/concern themselves/give consideration to stuff that they can do nothing about. 5/ I'm surrounded by folk (Out here in real life) that analyse the feck out of such stuff with one hand, whilst with the other hand, throw hints and claims relating to mental infirmities/stress/lack of sleep/mentally-related health issues/anxiety/etc/etc. I truly believe the two go hand in hand.* My boss in particular, and my wife to a lesser extent, are both "guilty" of the above. As are others a little further out in my life. If anything in life "drives me crazy", it's this! "Why analyse it"? I cry! "Why lie awake thinking about it?". "Why make yourself ill over it?" "How the hell is this ever going to affect your life? It ain't, so let it go"! Chill. Relax. Enjoy the good which is all around us. "Mental health" is going through the roof! We don't help ourselves. *I fully appreciate there are those out there who of course, have mental health issues effected/caused by actual problems directly affecting them, and which they cannot solve. Let's concentrate our efforts on helping them. I'm a big fan of that (And family history, hopefully all in the past now, touch wood!) Analysing and/or worrying about stuff nigh on a stratosphere away is not healthy... I repeat... In my opinion! There. I feel better now! 👀 #chilledasfeck,me! 🤍 That's me told!! I agree btw. 🤣 Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, ramit said: ... and that gets Mrs ramit all worked up... Photos? Video, even? Am I a bad man? 🤷♂️ ramit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 32 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: 4/ Far too many people worry/concern themselves/give consideration to stuff that they can do nothing about. Good point, well made. I came into the chat for chance to have a rant about how it can't be right that Peter Sutcliffe gets to keep his passport while a 15 year old girl groomed and pretty much trafficked doesn't, how having a second passport means you can have your British one taken off you (but only if you have a second one) seems kinda, well, racist. But I read your post and I thought - you know what, that gadgie makes a good point. Cheers to you for it. Ram-Alf, Alph, Mucker1884 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 32 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: Why analyse it"? I cry! "Why lie awake thinking about it?". "Why make yourself ill over it?" "How the hell is this ever going to affect your life? It ain't, so let it go"! Chill. Relax. Enjoy the good which is all around us. Mucker1884 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 58 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: ... gadgie... Thought it best to Google that, seeing as it's a new one on me, and I get called all sorts on here! 😲 Turns out, this one's ok. Phew! Makes a nice change. Cheers! 🍻 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Rampant said: She is, or was, a British citizen so she's our problem. She should be brought back here and tried accordingly. If that means she spends years, decades or even life in jail here then so be it. What constitutes an appropriate sentence is for another debate. Could you imagine the outrage from the Daily Mail readers if foreign countries refused to accept responsibility for their citizens who commit crimes in Britain when we go to deport them after their jail sentence? 'Sorry guv, we've revoked Pablo's Italian citizenship, you deal with it.' She was, and may well still be, a moron with a reprehensible moral compass, but given that she was born in England and lived here for the first 15 years of her life, the bottom line is she is a British moron. A homegrown moron if you prefer. A problem which we should deal with according to our laws. This, a million times over. It doesn't matter how big or small the offence - she's our responsibility and shouldn't be passed off to other countries to deal with. EtoileSportiveDeDerby and Carl Sagan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 She's British and should be tried in the UK and sentenced in accordance with her age at the time of the offence. Of course, that's a Pandora's box in itself for too may reasons to attempt listing them all here. Frankly, I'm surprised the government has not simply sent her to Rwanda. Isn't that our chosen destination for 'unwelcome problems'? EtoileSportiveDeDerby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 One word... Niemöller Alph, Bob The Badger and ramit 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 10 hours ago, Eddie said: One word... Niemöller Rather Apt 👏 First They Came For The Communists First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me. ramit and Alph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Every other country are bringing their citizens back and put them on trial. Why should it be different for the UK? That's one thing, the other one she was 15. That does not make it right or an excuse but it has to be taken into consideration too. Carl Sagan, Tamworthram and Eddie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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