Derby v Cheltenham Town - Match Day Thread

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I was close to the pitch today and in the section of the pitch (on the right hand side in the middle) that I could see it was obvious there was a lack of clarity leading to mistakes being made. Players didn't know when or where to run to, who they should be passing to, or the pattern of play they should be exercising. Laing was getting frustrated as was Wilson who had a stinker but oftentimes he was put in a poor position because he had so few options and Laing was all over the shop. To me it stunk more of poor coaching than anything else. 

From the Indy Curtis Davies interview:

"...When he started, it used to be about centre-halves dominating their individual space. It’s now about totally submitting to the system.

“I was actually having this conversation yesterday with a few of the lads,” he says. “When I used to get a video, it’d be a tape and it’s just ultimately you watching the whole thing and trying to find your bits. There’s no cutting individual clips.

“Now, even the youth team at Derby have analysts for under-12s and under-14s. It shows how far the game’s evolved in terms of that information that, one, you get on your own play and, two, when we break down the opposition.”

It is what has better enabled more systemised play, too.

“The challenges are so different,” Davies explains. “When I started off in League One with Luton Town, everyone plays 4-4-2. It’s usually big man, quick man. That’s the way it would be, big man flick-on, quick man gets onto it. Even as you go up the levels, a lot of teams were still playing two strikers. There weren’t that many playing 4-3-3.

“So, as a centre-back pairing, you’re going one to one against the two centre-forwards.

“Now, it might be a front three, but the two of them are literally standing on either touchline so you’re having to keep your full-backs in. The attacking threat more comes from the positions you get taken into, rather than the actual players you’re defending against.

“It’s all about structure now. It’s all about the way, by being in certain positions, that allows a teammate to get onto the ball. It’s no longer a case of ‘this guy’s running the game, I’m going to kick him up and down all day long’… unless a manager tells you to do that!

“But it’s not just about taking charge. It’s about finding space and another player over. It’s about structure, about everyone knowing exactly their job and the job of the man next to them. So, if I played any position on the pitch, I would have known what I was doing. Everything’s automatic, and your thought process, not to say we’re robots but more in terms of once you get the ball in one position I know my passes are A and B. That allows anyone to step into the system..."

Everything we're not doing. 

[Mucker1884]

15 minutes ago, Archied said:

You obviously never saw me with a big smile walking to the car or the 5 lads that went past us singing Paul warnes derby army 🤷🏻‍♂️

I clearly don't see everyone, and my comments were clearly (or maybe not?) describing the majority of those I do see... not everyone at the game!

 

... Anyway, that sounds awfully South-Standish behaviour to me, so no wonder I didn't see you all!  👀

 

 😉🍻🐏

[Leeds Ram]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

From the Indy Curtis Davies interview:

"...When he started, it used to be about centre-halves dominating their individual space. It’s now about totally submitting to the system.

“I was actually having this conversation yesterday with a few of the lads,” he says. “When I used to get a video, it’d be a tape and it’s just ultimately you watching the whole thing and trying to find your bits. There’s no cutting individual clips.

“Now, even the youth team at Derby have analysts for under-12s and under-14s. It shows how far the game’s evolved in terms of that information that, one, you get on your own play and, two, when we break down the opposition.”

It is what has better enabled more systemised play, too.

“The challenges are so different,” Davies explains. “When I started off in League One with Luton Town, everyone plays 4-4-2. It’s usually big man, quick man. That’s the way it would be, big man flick-on, quick man gets onto it. Even as you go up the levels, a lot of teams were still playing two strikers. There weren’t that many playing 4-3-3.

“So, as a centre-back pairing, you’re going one to one against the two centre-forwards.

“Now, it might be a front three, but the two of them are literally standing on either touchline so you’re having to keep your full-backs in. The attacking threat more comes from the positions you get taken into, rather than the actual players you’re defending against.

“It’s all about structure now. It’s all about the way, by being in certain positions, that allows a teammate to get onto the ball. It’s no longer a case of ‘this guy’s running the game, I’m going to kick him up and down all day long’… unless a manager tells you to do that!

“But it’s not just about taking charge. It’s about finding space and another player over. It’s about structure, about everyone knowing exactly their job and the job of the man next to them. So, if I played any position on the pitch, I would have known what I was doing. Everything’s automatic, and your thought process, not to say we’re robots but more in terms of once you get the ball in one position I know my passes are A and B. That allows anyone to step into the system..."

Everything we're not doing. 

Yeah, it does make you wonder what they do on the training pitch. I honestly can't remember the last time I had less enthusiasm for the team than I do right now. I've got no love for the manager and if I'm honest it doesn't seem like he has much love for us. The football when I've seen it has been pretty shocking and it feels like we're limping into the playoffs in a division which we should be putting a marker down for everyone else. 

I went to the game and honestly felt little to nothing when we scored apart from a hint of relief.  I've been going for over 20 years, followed them home and away through the good times and the bad and I just don't see how this is going to work in the long run at all. 

[Tyler Durden]

20 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I think the fear is (which I have) is that if we're playing like this in league 1 what on earth will we be doing in the championship. We all know Warne's record in the championship with Rotherham and the more people are seeing the more people are likely thinking it was not a lack of resources solely at fault for his dismal record there but the type of play he instills in a team. I do think he'll get us up (just through the playoffs) either this season or next because of the resource gap between us and other teams. However, I've got no faith in his 'football' in the long term. 

I think we have to worry about getting out of this league first before we start musing on whether Warne is the right person to keep us up in the Championship.

But you may get what you wish for if it takes us another full season for us to get promoted which will see Warne towards the end of his contract so should be more affordable to get rid of if we do have a poor start.

Assuming he isn't given a contract extension when we do get promoted in this scenario obviously.

[Andicis]

4 hours ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Honestly some of our fans are genuinely awful. The sense of entitlement some of them have is absolutely staggering.

Yesterday was all about winning. The performance didn't matter. We're absolutely littered with injuries. Booking them off at half time? Who's that helping?

Cheering the captain when he's subbed off? 

It's absolutely ridiculous it really is.

Now I'm seeing "Blackett-Taylor hadn't really shown anything yet" he's been here 5 minutes, trained with us twice. I despair I really do.

All I hear is "we aren't good enough, Peterborough are better than us, Bolton are better than us" 

Says who? Of course Peterborough were brilliant when they came here. But that was the same Peterborough side we put 4 past on their own ground? Bolton also just scraped past Cheltenham, Bolton lost at Leyton Orient. 

Oxford fans watching us that second half at their ground would have thought we were the best team in the league, we were outstanding.

You cannot play well every week. 

 

The performance *does* matter. And it's not unreasonable to state that since Wigan away, the performances have been nowhere near good enough. 

Fans pay to be entertained, to watch a Derby team that brightens up their week. Fans aren't happy because the football is a poor watch, and that has happened too often this season. Alienating the fanbase is not a good decision, and this football alienates the fanbase. 

Additionally, whilst yes we managed to squeak past Cheltenham, but it's hardly a performance that inspires confidence that we will go to Charlton and win next week. 

Fans are concerned, yes there may be some booing the team and being unfair around CBT, but the majority of fans voicing an opinion post the game are concerned with the direction that we're heading. 

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Yeah, it does make you wonder what they do on the training pitch. I honestly can't remember the last time I had less enthusiasm for the team than I do right now. I've got no love for the manager and if I'm honest it doesn't seem like he has much love for us. The football when I've seen it has been pretty shocking and it feels like we're limping into the playoffs in a division which we should be putting a marker down for everyone else. 

I went to the game and honestly felt little to nothing when we scored apart from a hint of relief.  I've been going for over 20 years, followed them home and away through the good times and the bad and I just don't see how this is going to work in the long run at all. 

Yes, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks and feels that.

At least Billy waited until we'd gone up to tell us! 😄

[jono]

31 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I was close to the pitch today and in the section of the pitch (on the right hand side in the middle) that I could see it was obvious there was a lack of clarity leading to mistakes being made. Players didn't know when or where to run to, who they should be passing to, or the pattern of play they should be exercising. Laing was getting frustrated as was Wilson who had a stinker but oftentimes he was put in a poor position because he had so few options and Laing was all over the shop. To me it stunk more of poor coaching than anything else. 

I know what you mean from yesterday but these players are largely experienced men, and football is in constant motion. Regardless of coaching, where is the natural instinct ? When Fornah came on, his first touch was a one touch layoff and then he darted forward in to free space. That is from learning basics as a kid, they should know that anyway. 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The performance *does* matter. And it's not unreasonable to state that since Wigan away, the performances have been nowhere near good enough. 

Fans pay to be entertained, to watch a Derby team that brightens up their week. Fans aren't happy because the football is a poor watch, and that has happened too often this season. Alienating the fanbase is not a good decision, and this football alienates the fanbase. 

Additionally, whilst yes we managed to squeak past Cheltenham, but it's hardly a performance that inspires confidence that we will go to Charlton and win next week. 

Fans are concerned, yes there may be some booing the team and being unfair around CBT, but the majority of fans voicing an opinion post the game are concerned with the direction that we're heading. 

The direction of 11 wins in 15 games in and 3 points off top?

I'm entertained when we win.

Would you rather us play really well, entertain you but lose?

This is league one. We aren't Man City we aren't gonna play teams off the park every week. It's minging and it's a hard slog, on often horrible pitches.

 

[Andicis]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why is it obvious that we have more depth in our squad than everyone else?

We've not paid a fee for anyone for 3 seasons.

We've been under restrictions for 2 seasons.

I don't see how common sense would lead you to the conclusion that we have more depth in our squad than everyone else.

I know nothing about anyone else's squad hence asking you if you could back your statement up, you clearly can't so I'll take your comment as hyperbole.

We'll see when the financial statements are released and we can compare wage bills. It's evident that we'll be on the top end of that. So either, we are vastly overpaying players, or we have a squad of players that are earning more due to perceived quality. Which is it? 

[Ram-Alf]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

“It’s all about structure now. It’s all about the way, by being in certain positions, that allows a teammate to get onto the ball. It’s no longer a case of ‘this guy’s running the game, I’m going to kick him up and down all day long’… unless a manager tells you to do that!

“But it’s not just about taking charge. It’s about finding space and another player over. It’s about structure, about everyone knowing exactly their job and the job of the man next to them. So, if I played any position on the pitch, I would have known what I was doing. Everything’s automatic, and your thought process, not to say we’re robots but more in terms of once you get the ball in one position I know my passes are A and B. That allows anyone to step into the system..."

Everything we're not doing. 

PWs comment on CBT in the post match interview he said he's only trained a day, So next week he'll know what we want him to do.

Now...what does PW want him to do, Score goals is one priority, Cross the ball is another, But imo we coach natural ability OUT of players, A player moves to a club who's manager has a different logic to the player but the player has to do what he's been told to do.

Most of the posters on here are saying "we're winning games not because we're the better team, But because we have better individual players" and it's the latter that is keeping us in the top 6.

Football is a simple game believe me, It's only made complicated when you over coach a player who's either not got the where with all or just doesn't see what the manager wants...or heaven forbid...can't be arsed 😬

I'll take you all the way back to Hourihane's comment/argument to some fans after an away game last year when we either lost or drew..."we're being told to play this way" 

Down to you now Mr Warne and coaching team...3 in the middle please ☺️

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The performance *does* matter. And it's not unreasonable to state that since Wigan away, the performances have been nowhere near good enough. 

Fans pay to be entertained, to watch a Derby team that brightens up their week. Fans aren't happy because the football is a poor watch, and that has happened too often this season. Alienating the fanbase is not a good decision, and this football alienates the fanbase. 

Additionally, whilst yes we managed to squeak past Cheltenham, but it's hardly a performance that inspires confidence that we will go to Charlton and win next week. 

Fans are concerned, yes there may be some booing the team and being unfair around CBT, but the majority of fans voicing an opinion post the game are concerned with the direction that we're heading. 

I thought that footy fans turned up to see their team win.

Again that's just a generalisation to match yours. 

[Andicis]

Just now, MACKWORTHRAM said:

The direction of 11 wins in 15 games in and 3 points off top?

I'm entertained when we win.

Would you rather us play really well, entertain you but lose?

This is league one. We aren't Man City we aren't gonna play teams off the park every week. It's minging and it's a hard slog, on often horrible pitches.

 

So you were entertained yesterday? I wasn't. It was s****.

The direction I can see is based on performances in the last month. Which have dipped significantly since the levels shown in the Wigan game. The recent trend is not positive, our results have stayed positive as since Peterborough we've had a comparatively easy run of fixtures. Burying your head in the sand is not the answer.

Nobody wants to lose. The two options are not s**** football and win or good football and lose. There is a middle ground. 

Again, nobody expects us to play like Liverpool or Man City. But we can expect better than what is being produced. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

I thought that footy fans turned up to see their team win.

Again that's just a generalisation to match yours. 

My generalisation of football fans wanting to be entertained really isn't a controversial take. Yes, fans also want to see their teams win as well. However, when contrasting this season when we're at the top, and the McLaren era of football, it's evident which the fans enjoyed more. Fans want to see good football. This is not good football. 

[RamLad1884]

I’m really glad we won yesterday, I was worried with our form there was a risk of relegation/dropping out of the playoffs/falling away from the automatic promotion pack (delete as appropriate to sensationalise our poor playing style despite our still exceptional form). 
 

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

So you were entertained yesterday? I wasn't. It was s****.

The direction I can see is based on performances in the last month. Which have dipped significantly since the levels shown in the Wigan game. The recent trend is not positive, our results have stayed positive as since Peterborough we've had a comparatively easy run of fixtures. Burying your head in the sand is not the answer.

Nobody wants to lose. The two options are not s**** football and win or good football and lose. There is a middle ground. 

Again, nobody expects us to play like Liverpool or Man City. But we can expect better than what is being produced. 

 

 

[On the Ram Page]

33 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

From the Indy Curtis Davies interview:

"...When he started, it used to be about centre-halves dominating their individual space. It’s now about totally submitting to the system.

“I was actually having this conversation yesterday with a few of the lads,” he says. “When I used to get a video, it’d be a tape and it’s just ultimately you watching the whole thing and trying to find your bits. There’s no cutting individual clips.

“Now, even the youth team at Derby have analysts for under-12s and under-14s. It shows how far the game’s evolved in terms of that information that, one, you get on your own play and, two, when we break down the opposition.”

It is what has better enabled more systemised play, too.

“The challenges are so different,” Davies explains. “When I started off in League One with Luton Town, everyone plays 4-4-2. It’s usually big man, quick man. That’s the way it would be, big man flick-on, quick man gets onto it. Even as you go up the levels, a lot of teams were still playing two strikers. There weren’t that many playing 4-3-3.

“So, as a centre-back pairing, you’re going one to one against the two centre-forwards.

“Now, it might be a front three, but the two of them are literally standing on either touchline so you’re having to keep your full-backs in. The attacking threat more comes from the positions you get taken into, rather than the actual players you’re defending against.

“It’s all about structure now. It’s all about the way, by being in certain positions, that allows a teammate to get onto the ball. It’s no longer a case of ‘this guy’s running the game, I’m going to kick him up and down all day long’… unless a manager tells you to do that!

“But it’s not just about taking charge. It’s about finding space and another player over. It’s about structure, about everyone knowing exactly their job and the job of the man next to them. So, if I played any position on the pitch, I would have known what I was doing. Everything’s automatic, and your thought process, not to say we’re robots but more in terms of once you get the ball in one position I know my passes are A and B. That allows anyone to step into the system..."

Everything we're not doing. 

Not sure what you are trying to say here. There is no criticism of Derby in his remarks, quite the opposite . What he is saying is players have a responsibility that find space to receive passes and know the game plan. These are general comments. 

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

 

 

Witty as always Tyler. Notice how you always try the snide reply, rather than ever addressing points made. Once again, I'll leave replying to you after this. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

 

 

Could 'David' show us a probability graph of likely wins against losses when playing well or playing badly? How long do you think we can go on playing badly and winning? Warne hasn't much idea how to get the squad playing as a team greater than the sum of of its parts.

[CBRammette]

9 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

PWs comment on CBT in the post match interview he said he's only trained a day, So next week he'll know what we want him to do.

Now...what does PW want him to do, Score goals is one priority, Cross the ball is another, But imo we coach natural ability OUT of players, A player moves to a club who's manager has a different logic to the player but the player has to do what he's been told to do.

Most of the posters on here are saying "we're winning games not because we're the better team, But because we have better individual players" and it's the latter that is keeping us in the top 6.

Football is a simple game believe me, It's only made complicated when you over coach a player who's either not got the where with all or just doesn't see what the manager wants...or heaven forbid...can't be arsed 😬

I'll take you all the way back to Hourihane's comment/argument to some fans after an away game last year when we either lost or drew..."we're being told to play this way" 

Down to you now Mr Warne and coaching team...3 in the middle please ☺️

Thats interesting as CBT seems popular with fans at old club and good stats so far so if he doesnt perform here what is the difference? Hopefully he finds his feet quickly to take responsibility from NML

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Witty as always Tyler. Notice how you always try the snide reply, rather than ever addressing points made. Once again, I'll leave replying to you after this. 

You mentioned the recent trend wasn't positive that's all which is what 11 wins out of 14 or 15 games?

If that's not a positive trend then I'm sure even David Brent would find it hard to argue against that one.