Derby vs Leyton Orient

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Might be worth you checking the number of pages , posts and content of the match threads when we lose or draw compared to when we win, it may well change your view on the tenfold thing if you look at them honestly 🤷🏻‍♂️

I've done that before, completely clear headed and trying to be as objective as possible,  and found the result to be as I've described. Obviously not ten-fold (hence me calling it an exaggeration) but easily three-fold.

What happens fairly often is that a few people will react to a poor start to a game, a goal conceded etc -  not necessarily even with anything overtly negative - and then (should we turn it around) have these posts called out and grouped together as an example of wanton negativity, even if they were simply a fair reflection of the way we were performing when they were made. (Don't get me wrong, there will always be a couple of knee-jerk catastrophists and attention seekers in amnongst it all)

There's often very little appreciation that a match thread is a living, evolving thing. Anyone perceived to have been negative at any point must be shamed. Just the way it is.

This now tends to happen less than it did, of course, because we hardly ever concede and generally have tended to play better from the off (barring a few ecamples to the contrary)

On the subject of thread lengths, there are aways more things to discuss after a defeat, that's the way of footbal forums world-over. It's the way of human nature full stop, tbf.

Edited December 11, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[Comrade 86]

3 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Being described as a happy clapper or blind faither isn't being ridiculed. They're typical, cliched, go-to message board terms for when people are discussing / describing the 'factions' in the debate, used broadly rather than personally.

Fanboi has been used once, on a topic discussing Elon Musk. Fanboy only by people saying "I don't want to come across as a fanboy" or similar. Deluded? There's one example of someone applying it to fans with concern to a scoreline flattering us. No examples of it being used to describe anyone's support of Warne.

I repeat, nobody has ridiculed for the act of supporting the manager.

I'm sure there are some who take criticism and ridicule of the manager himself as ridicule of their support of him, but that's not the same thing.

Semantics. 

[May Contain Nuts]

10 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Semantics. 

If you say so. I'd say there's a crucial difference between being called out as a happy-clapper vs being called out as a moaner (or similar) anyway - the vast majority people are happy to take ownership of the former, but not the latter, I don't really see it as a derogatory term. Surely everyone would love to be a happy-clapper?

I don't suppose any of this really matters tbh, just something to fill the time. I'm incredibly bored of the shitness of League One, our victories feel almost entirely hollow to me and I can't wait for the season to be over, it's already dragging on like a MFer.

Edited December 11, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[Archied]

22 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

If you say so. I'd say there's a crucial difference between being called out as a happy-clapper vs being called out as a moaner (or similar) anyway - the vast majority people are happy to take ownership of the former, but not the latter, I don't really see it as a derogatory term. Surely everyone would love to be a happy-clapper?

I don't suppose any of this really matters tbh, just something to fill the time. I'm incredibly bored of the shitness of League One, our victories feel almost entirely hollow to me and I can't wait for the season to be over, it's already dragging on like a MFer.

We just must be very different, if we were a prem club with a prem squad beating league 1 clubs every week then I would be with you on the bored and hollow victories bit but we arnt and it’s all relative , in my mind we are a club that’s been decimated and are trying to fight our way back up and I’m really invested in that fight , my worry is if/ when we ever get back to the prem will I find competing to stay up or top 8 spot at best year on year all a bit boring and hollow 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Rampant]

6 hours ago, Old Spalding Ram said:

On a lighter note……………….pinched from the Orient forum matchday thread.

 

The audio of Derby fans singing.. you're gonna cry in a minute is coming through loud and clear.

Who was that aimed at?

[May Contain Nuts]

50 minutes ago, Archied said:

We just must be very different, if we were a prem club with a prem squad beating league 1 clubs every week then I would be with you on the bored and hollow victories bit but we arnt and it’s all relative , in my mind we are a club that’s been decimated and are trying to fight our way back up and I’m really invested in that fight , my worry is if/ when we ever get back to the prem will I find competing to stay up or top 8 spot at best year on year all a bit boring and hollow 🤷🏻‍♂️

I'd probably subscribe to that view had League One proved true to its billing.

Everyone's cup final, having to scrap for every point, technical players routinely nullied by 6ft 4 oafs kicking them to bits every game etc. The reality is that describes probably only about 3 teams. If teams are supposed to raise ther game against us, someone forgot to send them the memo. It isn't the same league other teams (Forest, Leeds, Sunderland, Ipswich prior to last season) are often cited as struggling to come to terms with. (Nor did we need to offload an overstuffed, overpaid squad reeking of the failure of relegation)

I probably end up spending more time watching, concentrating on, the opposition team than I do watching our own play now.  I find that I'm saying to myself "how would I feel if I was a  ____ supporter"; would I be happy with that level of performance? Hand on heart I can honstly say that I would be gutted and almost ashamed of nearly all of them. Not just the lack of skill but the application, determination, intent too. It's a cake-walk for us at times only difficult if we fail to do the things we know we can do.

Yes, the club was decimated and had the league lived up to its reputation it would be easy to just accept that we need an extended period of time time to heal, but it's risen back very quickly (brilliant work behind the scenes by Clowes and his team) and even under certain restrictions has big advantages over many others clubs - the truth is that even a few short weeks of exiting administration we'd managed to assemble a squad which probably should have finished top 6 in its first season. (Nearly) A year and a half later the league is weaker and our squad better than last season, to the point that an increasing number of games barely even represent a challenge.

Of course there are some lingering after-effects of where we found ourselves, but it feels like some are content to wallow in it still, and to keep on taking their medication long after the infection has cleared. If those in charge of the club had that same mentality we'd be stuck a mid-table League One club with a budget and players to match forevermore.

Edited December 11, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just so you all appreciate the sacrifice I'm been making keeping up with forum chat. Here I am in the BVI.....but spiritually I'm in touch with PP..

 

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

I'd probably subscribe to that view had League One proved true to its billing.

Everyone's cup final, having to scrap for every point, technical players routinely nullied by 6ft 4 oafs kicking them to bits every game etc. The reality is that describes probably only about 3 teams. If teams are supposed to raise ther game against us, someone forgot to send them the memo. It isn't the same league other teams (Forest, Leeds, Sunderland, Ipswich prior to last season) are often cited as struggling to come to terms with. (Nor did we need to offload an overstuffed, overpaid squad reeking of the failure of relegation)

I probably end up spending more time watching, concentrating on, the opposition team than I do watching our own play now.  I find that I'm saying to myself "how would I feel if I was a  ____ supporter"; would I be happy with that level of performance? Hand on heart I can honstly say that I would be gutted and almost ashamed of nearly all of them. Not just the lack of skill but the application, determination, intent too. It's a cake-walk for us at times only difficult if we fail to do the things we know we can do.

Yes, the club was decimated and had the league lived up to its reputation it would be easy to just accept that we need an extended period of time time to heal, but it's risen back very quickly (brilliant work behind the scenes by Clowes and his team) and even under certain restrictions has big advantages over many others clubs - the truth is that even a few short weeks shy of exiting administration we'd managed to assembled a squad which probably should have finished top 6 in its first season. (Nearly) A year and a half later the league is weaker and our squad better than last season, to the point that an increasing number of games barely even represent a challenge.

Of course there are some lingering after-effects of where we found ourselves, but it feels like some are content to wallow in it still, and to keep on taking their medication long after the infection has cleared.

Honestly? I would probably give it a miss if that’s how I felt going to games 🤷‍♂️

[valakari]

Agree, but still we must win every game just about..to get into the top 2 and stay there!

Which means playing good football and showing no complacency!...oh and signing a goal scorer in place of Collins...

[angieram]

On the PW picking on players conversation, take a listen to Kane Wilson.

Wise words from Scott.

[HorsforthRam]

1 hour ago, Rampant said:

Who was that aimed at?

Orient fan in a white coat behind the goal near the Derby fans. It was just some banter. The bloke took it well tbh

[CongletonRam]

4 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Dish it out, take it back? Sure. Except, it doesn't work when the general trend is to 'give back' ten-fold (slight exaggeration) what's been dished out.

The prevalent attitude on here atm is one of undue smarm.

 

Absolutely no way!!

There has even been a tenth given back to what was dished out.

There were threads and threads of Warne out, Warne out and anyone who dared to support our manager was royally abused on here.

No 'undue smarm', as you put it, at all from what I have read through.

[sage]

28 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

 

Absolutely no way!!

There has even been a tenth given back to what was dished out.

There were threads and threads of Warne out, Warne out and anyone who dared to support our manager was royally abused on here.

No 'undue smarm', as you put it, at all from what I have read through.

Got any examples of Warne supporters being abused on here?

[May Contain Nuts]

Of course he hasn't. 

As I said earlier, it's likely - in the statistical sense, and understandably given human nature, so not really even a dig -  that there are some posters who think criticising Warne is the same thing as abusing posters who publicly back him, taking it upon themselves to feel insulted on his behalf.

Edited December 11, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[Ramarena]

18 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

Actually it is refreshing that Collins is getting in areas to have the chance to miss - earlier in the season he was either never there, late, or on the wrong side of the defender and never got near the cross. A second factor is the crosses are a whole lot better and are eithe3r on the ground or at a head-able height instead of scorching the cloud cover. He will be amongst the goals again pretty soon if we keep on with this improvement!

To an extent. But he so often vacates his position.

There were a number of crosses begging for a striker to get on the end of them after they went down to ten men, Sibley was the only player trying to be in the right place, our striker was awol.

[jono]

16 hours ago, valakari said:

Misses like yesterday will cost us against better teams...he isn't good enough, but he does put effort in, granted.

True, and the same can be said of every player who misses a good chance. NML has blasted some, JJ scuffed one the other night. So what ! What I can’t understand is when Collins misses one he’s the one that gets a level of grief that others simply don’t get.

Hey, I don’t think Collo is a genius, he’s missed some sitters, he’s an aging league one striker. That’s par for the course. He’s also a real grafter and tough guy who gives his all. When he next misses one, all I am thinking is s*i* … go on Collo keep at it. Why do some people have to have a whipping boy ? I just don’t get it. 
 

the only time I get seriously  grumpy with an individual player is when the effort and commitment isn’t there. I suppose it is different for everyone, part of the “match experience” but I see no benefit, joy, or relief from adding to the pressure on a player who’s effed up …. and knows it himself.

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

I'd probably subscribe to that view had League One proved true to its billing.

Most of the people warning us what League 1 would be like and telling us not to expect to march straight back to promotion were the fans of other 'big' clubs who'd found it far from easy despite the fact that none of them had spent a year in Administration nor started the first pre-season with only 5 players.

I think you're focusing on our recent winning run and glossing over the numerous games when we've struggled to overcome teams of game triers and appalling match officials. How you feel is entirely your right and obviously how you see things. Personally, I foresee  a few potential hiccups down the line, and some further tough games that we might expect to be easier, but I'm feeling more confident going into games now that the injury list is shorter and more players are finding consistency.

It's a few years since I truly turned up expecting us to win and I doubt I'm in a minority.

[Returning ram]

6 minutes ago, sage said:

Got any examples of Warne supporters being abused on here?

Depends on what you define as abuse, an example is as below using a quick search. Wouldn't bother me, personally as it goes both ways, but 
 

Love the old “supporters” quote. As if the only way you can support a football team is blind faith that things will work. If anything, it’s people like you who aren’t the true supporters. I want the best for the team, which is Warne going - you clearly don’t.

[May Contain Nuts]

48 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Most of the people warning us what League 1 would be like and telling us not to expect to march straight back to promotion were the fans of other 'big' clubs who'd found it far from easy despite the fact that none of them had spent a year in Administration nor started the first pre-season with only 5 players.

I think you're focusing on our recent winning run and glossing over the numerous games when we've struggled to overcome teams of game triers and appalling match officials. How you feel is entirely your right and obviously how you see things. Personally, I foresee  a few potential hiccups down the line, and some further tough games that we might expect to be easier, but I'm feeling more confident going into games now that the injury list is shorter and more players are finding consistency.

It's a few years since I truly turned up expecting us to win and I doubt I'm in a minority.

No, I'm thinking of Warne (and Rosenior's) full spell in charge. It's just even worse this season than last.

It's still only a small number of games where the opposition's resilience has been our downfall, I'm not glossing over them - every team has games like that - it's just theyve come along to cost us far less often than our lack of tactical nous and poor game and squad  management.

As I said, those other big clubs had to spend ages clearing out the s*** before they could do anything - we didn't have that problem. It was as fresh as fresh starts get. We overcame many of our issues within the first couple of months.

There are more teams who try to play 'football' in League One than there were when they were down here too. You could even attribute someone like Sunderland, say,  finally achieving promotion at least in part due to the changing nature of the league.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[jono]

3 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

No, I'm thinking of Warne (and Rosenior's) full spell in charge. It's just even worse this season than last.

It's still only a small number of games where the opposition's resilience has been our downfall, I'm not glossing over them - every team has games like that - it's just theyve come along to cost us far less often than our lack of tactical nous and poor game and squad  management.

As I said, those other big clubs had to spend ages clearing out the s*** before they could do anything - we didn't have that problem. It was as fresh as fresh starts get. We overcame many of our issues within the first couple of months.

There are more teams who try to play 'football' in League One than there were when they were down here too. You could even attribute someone like Sunderland, say,  finally achieving promotion at least in part due to the changing nature of the league.

 

I just don’t think you see the full picture. L1 isn’t vastly different from the Championship. A few weaker clubs yes, some lack of consistency certainly. Yet there are good footballers in this league, many of whom would prosper in the championship. Those few percentage points that move you from average to serious contender are very small. Add in that many of our signings that were “designed” for PW’s vision had injuries and left us both thin on the ground in numbers and having to adopt a compromised style. It hasn’t been an easy ride. There isn’t a huge cheque book, 25k every week a saying we are DCFC also doesn’t cut it when there are 11 strong men in the opposing half who are busting a gut to put one on us.

This is sport, we are in our roller coaster car with all its dints and scratches. I am just enjoying the competition and thank goodness we are at the very least a competitive group. My attitude would be different if we were below half way … but we aren’t . I seriously doubt there is a manager out there who would guarantee any team promotion with the obvious strictures they would be under given our current level of strength and stability. This isn’t happy clappy this is competition, reality, oh and support.