Derby vs Leyton Orient

[On the Ram Page]

27 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

That's a reasonable viewpoint to have but the original point was about whether those not backing Warne felt sheepish given our recent run of form. Some fans (myself included) don't feel a short term run of results is going to prove whether Warne is successful or not and that a longer term appraisal of his performance is necessary.

 

I think you're basing your belief on faith rather than the evidence. I don't disagree that managers can improve with experience but the fact Warne was relegated 3 times with Rotherham doesn't suggest he particularly learnt lessons from the first 2 occasions.

I will certainly enjoy the better results and genuinely hope we do go up automatically. Just because I don't especially rate Warne doesn't mean I won't be backing the team or relishing success. 

Just FYI, Ferguson never relegated Man Utd or was even close to doing so. His record at a previous club (Aberdeen) was also far superior to Warne's achievements.

Yes you’re right about Ferguson - it was 1989 when there were huge rumours he was going to be sacked when they finished 11th. They still stuck with him though, which was the point I was trying to make.

[Mucker1884]

24 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

As for the rest, apologies I'm not ignoring the posts just haven't had time to respond them.

After a quick read it seems my opinions have been perfectly put by other posters stepping into the breach so thanks to them. For the benefit of doubt the reason I don't think Warne is right for the long term is that, even though the quality of players may change, the simplicity of the tactical approach and lack of tactical intelligence is unlikely to do so, and I don't feel he's putting anything in place  that provides a stable basis for ongoing improvement, and I feel he's more interested in looking after his own skin than he is looking at the best interests of the club long term.

I acknowledge that it's one step at a time, however I just don't think it's unfair to critically assess the chances of him fulfilling the criteria laid out by the chairman for us to become an 'established' in the Championship club, simply because we aren't in that league yet. I find the idea that we'll cross that bridge when we come to it an incredibly short term view.

At every point, I've maintained my belief that Paul Warne absolutely will get us promoted, but we have hired a promotion expert, given him a good budget with more backing to come. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that getting promoted is the easy part of his job. Given his credentials and out resources  it should be straightforward for him  - and that is just an opinion, before someone else tried to accuse me of stating opinions as facts, but one I feel is backed up by the reality of our situation and the standard of the league this season.

Unfortunately one or two still seem utterly intent on showing their true colours and proving everything I've said about the attitude to people who aren't convinced by Warne to be true. As someone else said, the lack of self awareness (especially by anyone crying bully) is magnificent in its hypocrisy.

No wonder you ain’t had time to respond to posts! 😲

👀

[Tyler Durden]

53 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

..sorry, someone is going to have to jump in my stead because I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in entering into any kind of discourse with Tyler either today or at any time in the future. Ideally I wouldn't even have to register or acknowledge his presence.

The sad fact is you're unable to answer as there are no polls or stats to back up your assertions.

Which is why no one else is jumping in to help you out either.

[May Contain Nuts]

Has someone just farted?

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[Gritstone Ram]

@B4’s Sister Wycombe at home please 

[Eddie]

22 hours ago, RodleyRam said:

Quite a lot of chatter about Warne's comments about players. Are they jokes? Is it a bit of leg pulling? Is it passive aggressive? Does it point to something more toxic? 

1. Unlikely.

2. Very unlikely.

3 Quite possibly.

4. Undoubtedly.

[jono]

13 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Not sure you can get much more patronising than claiming someone can't see the full picture just because you disagree with them.  

Nothing in your post seems to be based on what's actually playing out in front of us, it's pretty much a list of theories, preconceptions and excuses without any substance or analysis behind them.

"11 strong men..." Sorry, what? Are we playing with our U12s? "...busting a gut to put one on us". -  in theory true but it's not what we've actually come up against in the vast majority of matches.

"It hasn't been an easy ride"... it has been pretty easy actually. Especially this season with 3 very good teams removed and 2 would-be competitors suffering points deductions and ongoing ownership issues.

"There isn't a higher cheque book" - no but there's more than most teams have and a promotion level budget. 

"25k a week saying we are Derby..." - Oh please, my posts haven't said anything of the sort. Making out my view is based on us having the name Derby County and a lot of fans is again patronising and insulting.

"the obvious structures they would be under given our current level of strength and stability" - which is pretty damn good, just because we came from a bad place doesn't mean we're currently in one and have to pretend we're this meek little things who shouldn't expect to compete from promotion.

There's nothing wrong with the structure Warne is working under, he's got more than enough at his disposal to get us promoted and we're told that his only remit is getting us up so his use of the academy can't be brought into discussions, and the Chairman is on record as saying he has patience with him and would understand even if he does somehow fail to get us promoted. He's got it bloody easy and there's no reason to think another manager couldn't at least match what he's done.

"many if our signings were designed for Warne's vision"... which was to play with a back 3 with Bradley at the heart of it. Thank god for injuries, quite frankly. It's debatable whether we'd even have signed Niambe had they not happened. Our "compromised style" as you put it has been key to some of our better performances both last season and this. When most of the injured players have played they've looked no better than what we have as 'backups'.

"This isn't happy clapping. It's reality. It's support" - the patronising b******* goes on.

Mwah mwah. What a delightful rebuttal. Like you, I have my opinion. Clearly we disagree. I am sorry you feel “patronised” Have you a self esteem issue ? 

I find it amusing that you state Warne has had it “easy” but then you you “theorise” that another manager might have matched his performance. Why then would we want another manager so desperately if the suggestion is that he might “match” what we already have. ? 

Perhaps I get a gold medal for stating the obvious. Probably true, but It would sit nicely with a KAE : aka the know all entitled-medal by its side, you must have a number of these in your personal trophy cabinet. 
 

For the record your suppositions and theorising also rank highly in BS department. 
 

Oh and if being supportive and having a different opinion than you counts as “patronising” then a fair few of us will need a new dictionary. 

[jono]

23 hours ago, norwichram said:

Can’t understand why it’s not a straightforward - 

“yes really pleased for Louis and what a strike it was  .. we’ve played him in various positions and he’s always worked hard for the team but obviously enjoyed playing the 10/8 today. he was a real handful today and performed well
 

great to have selection problems and it’s that attacking intent we’ve been building on which has enabled us to go  on this run supported by what is currently the best defence in the league”

 

The reason is clear to me … If you want PR speak then that’s ok. If you want a manager who relates to real people then it isn’t. I would rather have Warne’s reaction, which was clearly humorous and honest; than some spoon fed insincere managed “content”

[norwichram]

4 minutes ago, jono said:

The reason is clear to me … If you want PR speak then that’s ok. If you want a manager who relates to real people then it isn’t. I would rather have Warne’s reaction, which was clearly humorous and honest; than some spoon fed insincere managed “content”

Errr … there’s a middle ground….

I taken PWs quote and offered an alternative based on his words 

so whilst you’re correct to condemn insincere management content .. not sure how that’s relevant here 

Also … he doesn’t relate to me .. am I not real then?

Edited December 12, 2023 by norwichram

[May Contain Nuts]

16 minutes ago, jono said:

Mwah mwah. What a delightful rebuttal. Like you, I have my opinion. Clearly we disagree. I am sorry you feel “patronised” Have you a self esteem issue ? 

I find it amusing that you state Warne has had it “easy” but then you you “theorise” that another manager might have matched his performance. Why then would we want another manager so desperately if the suggestion is that he might “match” what we already have. ? 

Perhaps I get a gold medal for stating the obvious. Probably true, but It would sit nicely with a KAE : aka the know all entitled-medal by its side, you must have a number of these in your personal trophy cabinet. 
 

For the record your suppositions and theorising also rank highly in BS department. 
 

Oh and if being supportive and having a different opinion than you counts as “patronising” then a fair few of us will need a new dictionary. 

Another one showing their true colours. Nasty!

The evidence just keeps on piling up. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[norwichram]

11 minutes ago, jono said:

Mwah mwah. What a delightful rebuttal. Like you, I have my opinion. Clearly we disagree. I am sorry you feel “patronised” Have you a self esteem issue ? 

I find it amusing that you state Warne has had it “easy” but then you you “theorise” that another manager might have matched his performance. Why then would we want another manager so desperately if the suggestion is that he might “match” what we already have. ? 

Perhaps I get a gold medal for stating the obvious. Probably true, but It would sit nicely with a KAE : aka the know all entitled-medal by its side, you must have a number of these in your personal trophy cabinet. 
 

For the record your suppositions and theorising also rank highly in BS department. 
 

Oh and if being supportive and having a different opinion than you counts as “patronising” then a fair few of us will need a new dictionary. 

Surprised by your comments here Jono and disappointed .. the patronising bit was where you say someone has know all entitled medals not the fact that you hold a differing opinion.

unless of course you were bing highly ironic and I missed it …

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Steve Evans, Neil Warnock & Matt Taylor all kept Rotherham up in the 3 seasons they were in charge.

Hmmm.... Evans did a notable job undoubtedly. Warnock came in for the last 16 games of the season, did his cavalry job, and then left. Taylor only kept them up thanks to the good start to the season they had under Warne (he's since been sacked).

Your statement about Warne "relegating Rotherham 3 times" doesn't tell the whole story either. The first relegation occured, unsurprisingly, after he'd been appointed interim manager (and their third of the season) when they'd picked up only 7 points from their first 18 games. The 2nd time, they were relegated after the penultimate game, and the 3rd time on a final day of the season that I'm sure we all remember. Makes you wonder why Rotherham kept faith with Warne on each occasion, doesn't it?

 

[jono]

13 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Not sure you can get much more patronising than claiming someone can't see the full picture just because you disagree with them.  I was’t being patronising, I was, like you, voicing an opinion

Nothing in your post seems to be based on what's actually playing out in front of us, it's pretty much a list of theories, preconceptions and excuses without any substance or analysis behind them. Pardon ? 

"11 strong men..." Sorry, what? Are we playing with our U12s? "...busting a gut to put one on us". -  in theory true but it's not what we've actually come up against in the vast majority of matches. This is your opinion and nothing more. “11 strong men” was merely a way of describing opponents of a similar level, often with experience in this league. 

"It hasn't been an easy ride"... it has been pretty easy actually. Especially this season with 3 very good teams removed and 2 would-be competitors suffering points deductions and ongoing ownership issues. It hasn’t been an easy ride.
The club is under a monitored business plan, the transfer market has changed fundamentally and 12 months ago we barely had any players. 

"There isn't a higher cheque book" - no but there's more than most teams have and a promotion level budget.
You have no evidence to support your supposition in any case . And we are in the playoff places at present so your point is ? 

"25k a week saying we are Derby..." - Oh please, my posts haven't said anything of the sort. Making out my view is based on us having the name Derby County and a lot of fans is again patronising and insulting.

Insulting ? Not quite sure where you got that from and I never insinuated that you suggested having a big fan base gave us something special. I was simply stating a fact. A tad touch I think !

"the obvious structures they would be under given our current level of strength and stability" - which is pretty damn good, just because we came from a bad place doesn't mean we're currently in one and have to pretend we're this meek little things who shouldn't expect to compete from promotion.

Not true. We are under a business plan. We also have an owner who wants us to succeed but doesn’t have a bottomless pit.
We do have strictures (with an I) we started with very few players, our foundations were only just setting and we were/are under specific scrutiny from on high. I also don’t see any suggestion that we should be meek from either manager, fans or the owner.

There's nothing wrong with the structure Warne is working under, he's got more than enough at his disposal to get us promoted and we're told that his only remit is getting us up so his use of the academy can't be brought into discussions, and the Chairman is on record as saying he has patience with him and would understand even if he does somehow fail to get us promoted. He's got it bloody easy and there's no reason to think another manager couldn't at least match what he's done.

So you want management by fear .. and if the manager isn’t being threatened with the sack that counts as “easy” and there is one round the corner, at no cost that might equal what we already have 🤪

"many if our signings were designed for Warne's vision"... which was to play with a back 3 with Bradley at the heart of it. Thank god for injuries, quite frankly. It's debatable whether we'd even have signed Niambe had they not happened. Our "compromised style" as you put it has been key to some of our better performances both last season and this. When most of the injured players have played they've looked no better than what we have as 'backups'. 
 

as to the above … hindsight city ! And if you’d seen Bradley preseason when his head was a ball magnet against PL opposition you might have a different view and we were all very pleased with Joe Ward. 

" the patronising b******* goes on. .. I wonder how you would react to such a churlish comment ? Is this factual, scientific, evidential, analytical? A trip to the nearest mirror might be beneficial 

 

 

 

[jono]

27 minutes ago, norwichram said:

Surprised by your comments here Jono and disappointed .. the patronising bit was where you say someone has know all entitled medals not the fact that you hold a differing opinion.

unless of course you were bing highly ironic and I missed it …

I was patronising someone who said I was patronising them when I wasn’t, so I thought I’d patronise them anyway as I’d probably get away with it without sounding too patronising. If it keeps me out of trouble I think I might have been a bit ironic too. 

[jono]

31 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Another one showing their true colours. Nasty!

The evidence just keeps on piling up. 

What was it you said about my original post ? Dear me. Hello Pot.

evidence of what exactly ? That I disagree with you and challenge your opinion ? 
 

You seem very good at doling it out but then get all pouty 

[CBRammette]

Am I going mad - is Lincoln match really on Thurs 21st? What the...why? Feels like we've had so few home Saturdays the last couple of months.

[May Contain Nuts]

25 minutes ago, jono said:

 

Meh. I'll call it a draw, or maybe just a cease fire, because quite frankly I can't be arsed.

Apologies if I misunderstood the tone of your post, but the tone of this place toward people who aren't fully on board with Warne IS disgusting imo, maybe I grouped your post in with that too readily.

Edited December 12, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[Ram@Lincoln]

6 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Am I going mad - is Lincoln match really on Thurs 21st? What the...why? Feels like we've had so few home Saturdays the last couple of months.

Yeah it got moved for TV I believe. Scandalous. 

[kevinhectoring]

7 hours ago, Crewton said:

Makes you wonder why Rotherham kept faith with Warne on each occasion, doesn't it?

The promotions he won Rotherham gave him a solid and long term base of support I’d imagine.  And I think the Rotherham fan base don’t hold the view many of us do that div 1 is beneath us. So in Rotherham he was a popular figure who really was the boss. That’s why he has been careless when he talks about players imo

Some of the criticism on here and at PP has been quite cutting. It’s a new thing for him.  I think he may have found it hard to cope with and I think it leaves him a bit lost as to how to project himself in the media. The quirky chirpy cheeky chappy doesn’t play if the crowd are calling for his bobble hat 

[Archied]

7 hours ago, May Contain Nuts said:

Meh. I'll call it a draw, or maybe just a cease fire, because quite frankly I can't be arsed.

Apologies if I misunderstood the tone of your post, but the tone of this place toward people who aren't fully on board with Warne IS disgusting imo, maybe I grouped your post in with that too readily.

Think the real issue isn’t people who arnt fully onboard with warne , I get that , can respect it if it’s put out there with reasonable reason or even gut feeling , the issue is certain posters whose attacks on warne have bordered on obsession with personal attacks and total destruction of what the bloke has achieved at this leve ( the level we are at ) , those posters never give credit when it’s fairly due with the bad all down to warne but the good in spite of him or pure accident,

I think they are fair game for a bit of stick back but they seem to have gone into lurk mode until we lose a couple as we surely will over the rest of the season and for me if he gets us up he has earnt a crack at the championship, that’s not short term thinking it’s just how I roll