Glass half full!

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Dan_Ram said:

They aren't good enough yet, otherwise they'd be in the first team...

Who would you suggest from the U21s that is currently better than our starting XI?

Brown might be the only one close IMO. Robinson, Weston, Fapetu, Wheeldon all have potential but not 1st team quality yet.

Has anyone claimed we should be starting anyone from the academy on a regualr basis? At most, there have been a handful of people who have claimed the likes of Brown should have been given the odd start when our other players were out of form.

I think it's also common sense to use the academy to ease the physical burden on the relatively small first team squad. Warne wants to play a high intensity style of play, which the older players in our first team struggle with when playing Saturday-Tuesday for several weeks on a row.

Giving them a few minutes here and a game there is a key part in their development to ensure they are ready to play a regular part in the first team in the future. It's rare for a player to go from a handful of games at U18/21 level to being a first team regular. Instead, it's a gradually increase in exposure, and often with a loan or two. The best chance for then to earn a loan is by putting their name in the shop window when they play for the first team - those games show potential suitors if they're mentally ready for first team football, whislt only their technical ability can be seen from youth football.

[jimtastic56]

Plymouth Argyle won our league last season with an income of £15 million . But they made a loss of £3.4 million. Do we expect to make autos and break even ? I wonder if Warne was told the full story when he signed? He may have thought he would have a lot more to spend on players than he ever did at Rotherham.

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Plymouth Argyle won our league last season with an income of £15 million . But they made a loss of £3.4 million. Do we expect to make autos and break even ? I wonder if Warne was told the full story when he signed? He may have thought he would have a lot more to spend on players than he ever did at Rotherham.

For last season, our revenue will have been higher with similar losses

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

5 hours ago, Dan_Ram said:

They aren't good enough yet, otherwise they'd be in the first team...

Who would you suggest from the U21s that is currently better than our starting XI?

Brown might be the only one close IMO. Robinson, Weston, Fapetu, Wheeldon all have potential but not 1st team quality yet.

I'm talking about bringing in 20-24 yr olds that have league experience. Unfortunately we are looking at Ireland, Scotland, lower leagues & Premier league cast-offs, because that's the pool we are fishing in at the minute.

They aren’t good enough yet???

We haven’t seen anywhere near enough of them to make that sort of comment. 
 

Most of our first team arent good enough. 

[Dan_Ram]

14 hours ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

They aren’t good enough yet???

We haven’t seen anywhere near enough of them to make that sort of comment. 
 

Most of our first team arent good enough. 

We haven't seen a lot of them yet but the people who pick the team, who see them every day in training, who have decades of experience in coaching youth teams and knowledge of the step up between youth to senior football have seen them and aren't picking them. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Dan_Ram said:

We haven't seen a lot of them yet but the people who pick the team, who see them every day in training, who have decades of experience in coaching youth teams and knowledge of the step up between youth to senior football have seen them and aren't picking them. 

Has Warne decades of experience in playing youth? I suppose he must have brought some players through Rotherham's academy?

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, Dan_Ram said:

We haven't seen a lot of them yet but the people who pick the team, who see them every day in training, who have decades of experience in coaching youth teams and knowledge of the step up between youth to senior football have seen them and aren't picking them. 

Ah OK, you sound like an expert at this. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Has Warne decades of experience in playing youth? I suppose he must have brought some players through Rotherham's academy?

Dan the man knows his stuff Roy - can't mess with his knowledge 🤣

[sage]

1 hour ago, Dan_Ram said:

We haven't seen a lot of them yet but the people who pick the team, who see them every day in training, who have decades of experience in coaching youth teams and knowledge of the step up between youth to senior football have seen them and aren't picking them. 

Well. let's close down the forum then, because they know better. All comment is futile. 

 

[Wolfie]

49 minutes ago, sage said:

Well. let's close down the forum then, because they know better. All comment is futile. 

 

They bloody well should know better, shouldn't they?. I'd be concerned if the various coaches around the club didn't know any more about the relative quality of our young players and suitability for the first 11 than the chuckle brothers here on a forum.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Has Warne decades of experience in playing youth? I suppose he must have brought some players through Rotherham's academy?

There are only 3 players to have come through Rotherham's academy during Warne's time as manager, and still be playing league football. For comparison, it would be very disappointing if our club produced fewer League footballers than that every season.

The only success story for Warne is Ben Wiles. A CM who made 193 appearances for Rotherham's first team.
       17/18 - 134 mins in the EFL Trophy
       18/19 - 1159 mins (Championship)
       19/20 - 40 apps (League 1)
       20/21 - 45 apps (Championship)
       21/22 - 53 apps (League 1)
       22/23 - 30 apps (Championship) then a £2m move to Huddersfield

Jerry Yates - a CF who made his first team debut the season before Warne became manager. He played 46 times (scoring only 3) before being sold to Blackpool for £200k in 2020 before eventually earning a move to Cardiff for £2.5m last summer.
       14/15 - (before Warne) 5 mins in the league
       15/16 - (before Warne) not used
       16/17 - 1089 first team mins (Championship), introduced during an injury crisis
       17/18 - 855 mins (League 1)
       18/19 - loan to Carlisle (League 2) and played in 29 games, then returned to Rotherham for 237 mins across 7 games (Championship)
       19/20 - last minute sub in 1 League 1 game, and 35 games on loan at Swindon (League 2)

Josh Kayode - another CF who made all 37 his Rotherham appearances under Warne (3 goals)
       17/18 - 51 mins in the EFL Trophy
       18/19 - short loan to Chesterfield (National League) where he played for 140 mins
       19/20 - 17 mins in the EFL Trophy, followed by 22 games at Gateshead (National League North) and 5 games at Carlisle (League 2)
       20/21 - Another loan to Carlisle (League 2) where he played in 36 games
       21/22 - 1178 first team minutes spread across 28 games (League 1)
       22/23 - 26 mins in the League Cup prior to a loan at MK Dons where he made 9 appearances

32 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

They bloody well should know better, shouldn't they?. I'd be concerned if the various coaches around the club didn't know any more about the relative quality of our young players and suitability for the first 11 than the chuckle brothers here on a forum.

I refer you back to the Fan Forum - earlier that day, Warne attended an U21 game, with Weston scoring a hattrick. Warne didn't even know his name. He also thought he was watching U21 football prior to our first team games on Saturdays when it was actually U18s.

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, Wolfie said:

They bloody well should know better, shouldn't they?.

You would hope so, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.

A good coaching team will of course have a variety of specialties covered and work together, lean into each others' experience and knowledge but is it always the case that this is what you get? Of course it isn't.

Not all football managers / coaches are interested in or knowledgeable about the same aspects of the job. Their coaching styles and their priorities differ wildly.  Often a manager will surround himself with people he likes and trusts, but this can come at the expense of having a more rounded team around him so you can end up with a collective of like-minded individuals who may complement each other well but who don't challenge each others' thought processes.

If a manager nor his chosen coaches are really knowledgeable about, experienced with or interested in bringing through youth players then there's every chance that, even if someone else at the club does have this knowledge and reports to them what they know, that person will pretty much be ignored.

Not being involved in the game on a day by day basis also doesn't preclude  fans from gaining knowledge on a certain subject by studying, listening to those who are specialists in the field, reading in-depth interviews and analysis, looking at how other clubs have handled the transition etc, even if it's only a theory they'll never be able to put into practice.

The difference is they have the advantage of not having to deal with all the other stuff that comes with being a football coach/manager on a day to day basis so don't have to deal with that balance, but it doesn't automatically make the fan wrong and the coach right.

Edited November 21, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[jimtastic56]

The Premier League clubs met today in London and discussed giving more money to us paupers in the lower Leagues. They did not come to a decision but £900 million was spoken of . They won’t do it without strings attached , on this subject our glass is half empty.

[Sheff Ram]

On 20/11/2023 at 13:00, TINMANTED said:

another year in this hell will do untold damage to the club,and the clubs future support,its breaking my heart seeing most of the young people walking round with trees on their shirts

That's a pretty bleak outlook. And it's hardly hell.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Sheff Ram

[Sheff Ram]

On 20/11/2023 at 07:34, Van der MoodHoover said:

I don't know the answer, as the other narrative weaving it's way through this is that we could find ourselves clearing out 14 or so first team squad members next season.

Hence we have another season with who knows what experience to fall back on.

Oh, and Paul Warnes reputation as a "promotion specialist" diminishes to some extent.

Maybe we will. Maybe we won't. Feel free to worry away...

[Wignall12]

On 20/11/2023 at 15:09, Dan_Ram said:

Still have the oldest average age squad in the league. Hangover from not being able to pay money for players.

Hopefully we can start to bring in a few more adventurous, energetic youngsters to inject a bit of pace & excitement back in to the squad. Feel that things are just a bit too slow at times. One or two in January would be a good start.

Let's face it, the damage done by administration and embargos will take years to reverse. Need a bit of patience.

EXACTLY THIS !! .....all you impatient bods need a reality check , we are where we are and there is no quick fix.  

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, Wignall12 said:

EXACTLY THIS !! .....all you impatient bods need a reality check , we are where we are and there is no quick fix.  

How long does the slow fix take then?

[Premier ram]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How long does the slow fix take then?

As long as it takes , I don’t know why you keep thinking this club could be back on its feet in such a short space of time, regardless of who is manager DCFC has to be rebuilt slowly with all the finances in a healthy condition , to run before we can walk will be detrimental to our future , patience from the fan base is needed above all else no matter how frustrating 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

As long as it takes , I don’t know why you keep thinking this club could be back on its feet in such a short space of time, regardless of who is manager DCFC has to be rebuilt slowly with all the finances in a healthy condition , to run before we can walk will be detrimental to our future , patience from the fan base is needed above all else no matter how frustrating 

Because the owner has said the manager has a budget good enough to challenge for promotion this season, that is one reason. Who do I believe you or the owner...hmmm.

Edited November 22, 2023 by RoyMac5

[Premier ram]

55 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Because the owner has said the manager has a budget good enough to challenge for promotion this season, that is one reason. Who do I believe you or the owner...hmmm.

The operative word being challenge, with less than half the season gone and a position just outside the play offs whose to say we won’t challenge