Are our players as good as most think ??I

[Chris_Martin]

1 hour ago, Magicman said:

Because they will be free agents in January and they are low risk deals 

firstly, they are after them because they are good players not because the contracts almost up

secondly, no ones contract is up in january apart from nyambe

[Jourdan]

3 hours ago, CongletonRam said:

I started a thread on this recently called, 'How good is our squad', for which I got berated by many on here.

Our squad is average, very average with a mix of journeymen professionals even at this level.

Granted, it's good enough for a play-off challenge, but it is not even close to being good enough for a top 2 challenge.

Nothing I have seen has changed my mind.

People speak about this squad in such glowing terms.

The best in the league? Anything but top two is a failure? I can’t understand why.

If you have a number of players playing at a level below their actual level, this tends to shine through and become very telling very quickly. See Leicester in the Championship currently.

In our 15 months in League 1, the only player to really genuinely evidence that on a consistent basis has been McGoldrick. The rest of the players have performed like a top half League 1 team and with the exception of 15 games last winter, they have not looked out of place at this level whatsoever and that should be a massive concern.  

This is not a top two team masquerading as a top ten team, and one that will greatly surge up the table if things change.

[BaianoPOTY98]

4 hours ago, CongletonRam said:

I started a thread on this recently called, 'How good is our squad', for which I got berated by many on here.

Our squad is average, very average with a mix of journeymen professionals even at this level.

Granted, it's good enough for a play-off challenge, but it is not even close to being good enough for a top 2 challenge.

Nothing I have seen has changed my mind.

 

Get a decent manager in and we might find out, one way or another 🤷‍♂️

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

People speak about this squad in such glowing terms.

The best in the league? Anything but top two is a failure? I can’t understand why.

If you have a number of players playing at a level below their actual level, this tends to shine through and become very telling very quickly. See Leicester in the Championship currently.

In our 15 months in League 1, the only player to really genuinely evidence that on a consistent basis has been McGoldrick. The rest of the players have performed like a top half League 1 team and with the exception of 15 games last winter, they have not looked out of place at this level whatsoever and that should be a massive concern.  

This is not a top two team masquerading as a top ten team, and one that will greatly surge up the table if things change.

Personally I think on paper we've got reasonable sections of the squad that are capable of playing well in the league above and then the rest are mostly good at this level. 

Is it the best squad in the league? Don't know on that front. Nor do I think anything aside top 2 is a a failure. I do however think with the ability at hand it should be pushing for top 2 rather than dreaming of trying to get that last play off spot. And I'm partly convinced of that purely because we are getting points on the board still despite poor management.

I also think with where the quality areas are in the squad (i.e. midfield)  we should be firmly in control of most games and would be with proper coaching. 

Weirdly I think we had a top 2 squad probably when Warne took over. I'm not saying it should have performed at that level because it takes time to click.

But last season should have been focused on building momentum, squad familiarity and developing academy players into solid squad players and more. All so we could mount a serious challenge this year. 

It's what I find frustrating, it feels we've thrown a year down the drain only to be in a worse place. 

[Rammy03]

4 hours ago, europia said:

Very much a mid table L1 squad. 

Are you Warne out?

[Rammy03]

Thing is you look at the Sheffield Wednesday team that amassed 96 points last season. Their squad wasn't really much better than ours is this season.

[brady1993]

29 minutes ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

Get a decent manager in and we might find out, one way or another 🤷‍♂️

I think that's part of what I come back to.

I honestly feel that Warne is showing he's not what we would in spite of questions of squad quality. Tactical incoherence, unclear vision/longer term planning, lack of adaptability, mishandling player fitness, limited set of answers to problems, lack of accountability, flawed recruiting and lack of reaction to how a game unfolds are all issues he's demonstrated that have nothing to do with squad. A better squad more aligned to his sensibilities would only likely paper over these deficiencies. 

He isn't a bad manager and his coaches aren't bad coaches per se. But this is the wrong job for him and he's the wrong manager for us.

[Anag Ram]

We’ve brought in players that have obvious weaknesses and that shouldn’t be a surprise at League One level.

None of our back four are what could be described as comfortable on the ball. 

We don’t have a busy midfield player who can break things up and play it simple (a Shinnie type). The midfield balance has been a problem all season.

We don’t look either secure or creative there at the moment and I wonder if Ward could play there with Bird and Fornah. Thompson’s return will help.

Hourihane for me is an impact sub behind the forwards but his skills are suited to better strikers especially ones who can head his crosses.

Waghorn needs a nippy partner. None of our forwards are natural finishers.

Individually they aren’t a bad group but there hasn’t been enough care taken in working out how we can make the most of their skills.

I also don’t know how we forgot how to pass the ball. That should be a shared skill at any professional level. The team looks nervous in possession.

If we could improve that alone results would improve too.
 

 

[Tyler Durden]

Yes they're all world class and we should be fifteen points clear at the top of the table by this point if we had a half decent manager in charge 

[Shuff264]

I don't think they're incredible and should be leading leading league 1 and earning 100+ points.

I do think they're as good as Oxford and Portsmouth and I do think they are capable of competing for top 2, but at minimum top 6.

[Grumpy Git]

32 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Hourihane for me is an impact sub behind the forwards but his skills are suited to better strikers especially ones who can head his crosses.

To be fair, a minature version of John McGinn would struggle to head most of Hourihane's crosses.

[nogbad van 50]

13 hours ago, mwram1973 said:

I don't think for one minute that this squad should be walking this league. But, on paper ( and all the hype around Cashin, bird and Sibs etc) we should at least be in the top 6 and pushing the top 2.

 

 

[Magicman]

9 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

firstly, they are after them because they are good players not because the contracts almost up

secondly, no ones contract is up in january apart from nyambe

They are open to agree terms with other clubs post January so even being sold then. Nyambe was a short term deal so likewise he could move elsewhere. 

[angieram]

If they aren't as good as we think they are, there's little point in calling for the manager's head, is there? 

I personally feel that it's the team that is important,  rather than the individual. 

Do I think they are being used collectively as effectively as they could be? No.

[Srg]

They're better than what they're showing, but they aren't all that. But neither is this league. Glaring holes up front and in other attacking areas will limit us, but we should absolutely be better than this.

[RoyMac5]

They could be played together as a very good team - like we saw in last seasons unbeaten run. But I think Warne doesn't have the ability to judge players and what is needed. It's not rocket science at this level and there's plenty of players with ability either on the way down or up in their careers. 

Just one more point, Warne is a tactically limited manager with out of date ideas that players don't respond to no matter who our players are/were.

Edited October 30, 2023 by RoyMac5

[TomTom92]

Comes down to the big debate which was had tirelessly in pre season. If the squad isn't up too much then where does the responsibility and ultimately the blame regards recruitment get allocated too?

[DanS1992]

I firmly believe that the squad is good enough to compete at the higher echelons of this division. What currently hinders us, is the style of play implemented by the manager. I am convinced that a manager who keeps the game on the deck with the basic concept of pass and move would see us perform instantly better. 

[TheHomunculusLives]

I think it's easy to make the assumption that because we have a lot of players who have played at a higher level than League One they are automatically better than players from other clubs who haven't. The reality is we have a fair few players who are past their best or were very average at Championship level, other clubs may have more up and coming or underrated players.

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, TheHomunculusLives said:

I think it's easy to make the assumption that because we have a lot of players who have played at a higher level than League One they are automatically better than players from other clubs who haven't. The reality is we have a fair few players who are past their best or were very average at Championship level, other clubs may have more up and coming or underrated players.

They are by definition better players. But whoever they play for, whichever team they are at, you only see the best of their abilities with a good manager!