Are our players as good as most think ??I

[Gabby'sThighs]

11 hours ago, Mckram said:

I actually think for this level our squad is more than good enough.

At least half the starting 11 could still play in the Championship in my opinion.

It’s amazing what a lack of style/purpose and poor confidence can do to a team. 

Agreed. Wildsmith, Nyambe, Nelson, Cashin, Bird, NML, probably Wilson, Barkhuizen,  Fornah, Ward. 

it's frustrating how often they come out nervous & twitchy, scared to make a mistake.

[DavesaRam]

If the Rams got their school report right now it would say “Could do better”, and that is the issue. On our good run last season we saw what our players at the time were capable of, but it wasn’t Warne’s prowess that got us that run. Injuries meant that he had to move away from his methodology, but as soon as he could he went back to it and the good run hit the buffers.

As I said in another thread Warne has never had to come up with a style of play. He just carried on doing what his his predecessors had done, with a squad that was equipped to play like that. And it is all he knows. He thinks that if he keeps turning the handle the machine will keep in churning out the same results, even though the machinery inside is completely different.

If he were to become the manager of Manchester City, nothing would change. He would be delighted that he now had access to the best Neanderthal knuckle-draggers that money could buy, but his game plan would still be “run around a lot, whack it wide and sling crosses in to see what happens”. After all, that is all that Gardiola is doing ………….. oh wait!

And no, the Derby squad isn’t filled with Neanderthal knuckle-draggers, because warne didn’t manage to recruit any.

[May Contain Nuts]

The games where we've dropped points

Defeats -
Derby 1-2 Wigan, Derby 1-2 Oxford, Bolton 2-1 Derby, Shrewsbury 1-0 Derby, Stevenage 3-1 Derby

Draws -
Derby 1-1 Portsmouth, Derby 0-0 Cambridge, Cheltenham 1-1 Derby

Assuming all defeats are turned into draws / draws are turned into victories that would give us 11 extra points, 32 after 14 games. Oxford & Bolton sit 2nd & 3rd in the table on 29 points (14 games).

Have we dropped these points because the squad isn't good enough, or have we dropped those points because the management of the squad hasn't been good enough?

I don't think that it's realistic to expect us to have gone the season undefeated (although Portsmouth have managed it) so I'd say that 32 is out of reach, but how much closer should we be to Oxford & Bolton?

Edited October 30, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Chris_Martin]

4 hours ago, angieram said:

If they aren't as good as we think they are, there's little point in calling for the manager's head, is there? 

I personally feel that it's the team that is important,  rather than the individual. 

how do you explain the countless times throughout football at various levels where a new manager comes in and plays a different style of football and suddenly the team is transformed?

A perfect example being tottenham this year. Really struggled last season playing defensive football with antonio conte. They bring in an attacking, possesion based manager and with almost the exact same squad they are absolutely flying top of the premier league. This is despite losing harry kane aswell.

[angieram]

2 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

how do you explain the countless times throughout football at various levels where a new manager comes in and plays a different style of football and suddenly the team is transformed?

A perfect example being tottenham this year. Really struggled last season playing defensive football with antonio conte. They bring in an attacking, possesion based manager and with almost the exact same squad they are absolutely flying top of the premier league. This is despite losing harry kane aswell.

I agree it happens and I would love to see someone come in and transform these players into a slick passing, goal-scoring machine.

But if someone comes in and we don't look any better, we're in deep trouble. 

We are 9th in the table with a game in hand. 

I have my worries that some of these players, whilst probably of championship standard, will always struggle against the attritional style of football played at this level. Changing the manager won't alter that. 

[RoyMac5]

28 minutes ago, angieram said:

I agree it happens and I would love to see someone come in and transform these players into a slick passing, goal-scoring machine. But if someone comes in and we don't look any better, we're in deep trouble. 

We are 9th in the table with a game in hand. I have my worries that some of these players, whilst probably of championship standard, will always struggle against the attritional style of football played at this level. Changing the manager won't alter that. 

We've not seen much of that have we? We've mostly been outplayed.

Edited October 30, 2023 by RoyMac5

[angieram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

We've not seen much of that have we? We've mostly been outplayed.

On the contrary, we have seen loads of it. Holding, blocking, wrestling players off the ball is commonplace. We haven't got the strongest team physically and you can see players backing away from the challenges after they've been whacked a few times. 

I don't think we have had the protection from the refs that some of these players previously got at a higher level, either. 

Seems the fashion only to give free kicks against us at the moment. 

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, angieram said:

On the contrary, we have seen loads of it. Holding, blocking, wrestling players off the ball is commonplace. We haven't got the strongest team physically and you can see players backing away from the challenges after they've been whacked a few times. 

I don't think we have had the protection from the refs that some of these players previously got at a higher level, either. 

Seems the fashion only to give free kicks against us at the moment. 

You mean like when Davies wasn't awarded a freekick when thrown to the ground by Ikpeazu in 21/22 because "he's strong enough to handle himself"

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, angieram said:

On the contrary, we have seen loads of it. Holding, blocking, wrestling players off the ball is commonplace. We haven't got the strongest team physically and you can see players backing away from the challenges after they've been whacked a few times. 

I don't think we have had the protection from the refs that some of these players previously got at a higher level, either. 

Seems the fashion only to give free kicks against us at the moment. 

I don't agree. But that isn't why we can't pass to each other. Nor why our tactics are cross (unsuccessfully) into the box all the time. We're not playing well because we aren't set up to play football well.

[MadAmster]

6 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

If the Rams got their school report right now it would say “Could do better”, and that is the issue. On our good run last season we saw what our players at the time were capable of, but it wasn’t Warne’s prowess that got us that run. Injuries meant that he had to move away from his methodology, but as soon as he could he went back to it and the good run hit the buffers.

 

.... are you certain that the run didn't end when Max Bird got injured?

[angieram]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I don't agree. But that isn't why we can't pass to each other. Nor why our tactics are cross (unsuccessfully) into the box all the time. We're not playing well because we aren't set up to play football well.

You've seen this, I presume? 

[RoyMac5]

27 minutes ago, angieram said:

You've seen this, I presume? 

What that we can't pass and that we had 23 crosses only about 9% successful in the last game? Yes I've seen every game this season. Of course I've not seen the blood and bruises in person but well you can hear the screams on RamsTV.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, angieram said:

If they aren't as good as we think they are, there's little point in calling for the manager's head, is there? 

I personally feel that it's the team that is important,  rather than the individual. 

Do I think they are being used collectively as effectively as they could be? No.

Look at how Plymouth won the league last year.

Their players did not match up against Ipswich or many others within this league but they had a clear identity, style of play and a plan. They were coached to play that way and utilised the strengths they had.

They also work purely on statistics and data to recruit players as opposed to feelings about them which I personally think is the best way to do it. 

[FKANorwichExile]

Every League 1 fan I've spoken to is amazed we're not fighting at the top. Some are shocked we're not walking the league. A Barnsley fan I know said that our bench would mostly all start for them weekly, let alone our starters. 

I don't know how we line up statistically, but the team really should be good enough. For me, Nyambe is potentially the best player in the league.

[CongletonRam]

1 minute ago, NorwichExile said:

For me, Nyambe is potentially the best player in the league.

For me, my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the world.

[FKANorwichExile]

1 hour ago, CongletonRam said:

For me, my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the world.

Prefer your mum tbh 🤷‍♂️

[Chris_Martin]

4 hours ago, angieram said:

I agree it happens and I would love to see someone come in and transform these players into a slick passing, goal-scoring machine.

But if someone comes in and we don't look any better, we're in deep trouble. 

We are 9th in the table with a game in hand. 

I have my worries that some of these players, whilst probably of championship standard, will always struggle against the attritional style of football played at this level. Changing the manager won't alter that. 

Historically the majority of teams to get promoted from league 1 are the ones that play good attacking football. 

[RoyMac5]

 

[Blondest Goat]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I don't agree. But that isn't why we can't pass to each other. Nor why our tactics are cross (unsuccessfully) into the box all the time. We're not playing well because we aren't set up to play football well.

It's a bit of both.  We get out played by the good teams (Oxford / Bolton) and out-fought by the likes of Stevenage.  We don't have any kind of style that we try and impose on the opposition and don't play the same from one week to the next.  We have absolutely no identity under Warne.

[angieram]

36 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Historically the majority of teams to get promoted from league 1 are the ones that play good attacking football. 

I know. That's what is so infuriating!