Warne Out Out

[Gerry Daly]

25 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Didn't we have a clean start when we went into administration.

Wasn't that enough for you 

Irrelevant point

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, winktheram said:

Right snidy comments. Whilst as part of the interview with Dom, it's always aimed at the fans, like we don't know what were talking about. Also wittering on about appreciating the fans that didn't leave when BR equalised, which was a sarky comment about those that did. I must be one of those that doesn't know football as he implied he went 3/5 at the back at half time where it was when he brought the Colossus Sonny Bradley on after our goal for me. At a point where we weren't in any trouble and BR hadn't done anything 2nd half. Almost a change to invite them on. But I might have missed the tactical change at half time as I was half cut but I'm sure Warne just plays games with these interviews.

What on earth are we going to do with him, he's really awful. Nowhere near Martin for their goal. Fairly bad with the ball at his feet and a mistake just waiting to happen. Why would you let Warne spend any more of the budget in January?

[jimtastic56]

On 22/11/2023 at 13:36, duncanjwitham said:

Not picking you out particularly with this, it's more of a general comment, but the bold bits get to the root of why I'm so opposed to Warne.

The way I see it, we have everything off-field ready for the Premier League - the fanbase size, the stadium, the training ground etc are all good enough.  Obviously we have no divine right to be in any league, but in theory there's no reason why we shouldn't be in the same group of clubs as the likes of Leicester/Burnley/Fulham/Brighton/Norwich etc who have spent at least as much time in the Prem as they have out of it in recent seasons.  I'm not saying we can win it like Leicester or be top 6 like Brighton or anything, but we absolutely have the potential to get there and stay there, but the onus is on us as a club to make it happen.

Obviously, one way that happens is that a new owner comes along and throws a lot of money at the club.  But there's no guarantee this happens, there's no guarantee it works if it does, and we all know what the potential fallout can be if it goes wrong.  It's certainly not an option we should be relying on.  Another way is just genuine luck, alignment of stars type stuff - you get the right manager at the right time, a bunch of signings all work out and you hit the jackpot.  We came close with Burley+Rasiak+Idiakez... and McClaren+Martin+Bryson... but ultimately fell short.  Again, that's not something you can rely on - you need a lot of things to all hit at once, and even then it might not work.  And it gets harder and harder as the championship gets dominated by clubs with parachute payments.

So IMO we should be doing the one thing that we have some degree of control over, and that's doing our level best to get the most we can out of the academy.  But that means fully committing to it.  When academy players are hitting 17/18/19/20 (it will be different for each players), they need to start being introduced to senior football.  If they aren't they won't progress.  If we take the approach that we can't play youth players now, we need to get promoted first, then you're basically writing off the current generation of academy players.  They won't get the first team exposure they need and won't kick on. 

So if we do get promoted what happens?  We can't afford to play academy players, we need to get stabilised in this league first.  And then?  We can't afford to play academy players, we need to kick on for the top 6 now.  And then?  We can't afford to play academy players, we need to get promoted to the prem first.  If your attitude is "we can't afford to play them now", then you won't be able to play them when they're good enough later, because they won't get good enough.

You can't just have an academy sat on the sidelines and hope it produces players now and then.  If you want to be like Southampton and have a steady stream of them, you have to gear the whole club up to make it happen.  You play similar styles of football across all age groups, you gear your transfer policy to not block promising players, you commit to giving youngsters first team chances when they're ready and if they take it you let them run with it.  And from what I can see, we can't do any of that with Warne in charge.  So we're just stuck hoping a youngster pops up, fully formed, once in a blue moon.  And that's one of the big advantages we could have over similar sized clubs that we are just choosing to throw away.

I have no idea if Weston is good enough, I've never seen him play.  But by all accounts he did well when he came on, and scored a good goal.  If you give him say 20 minutes against Barnsley and he scores again, then okay, maybe we've got something here.  If he then starts against Crewe and scores, then we've got a potential first team striker for nothing.  And if he doesn't do any of that then fine, he goes back to the U21s and maybe gets another shot in a month or 2.  But right now, we've just got a guy that scored a goal once and then never played again, which is no use to anyone.

Sorry everyone for the long post, but I genuinely think appointing Warne was a catastrophic mistake for a lot of reasons.  The ridiculous short-termism of "he was brought in to achieve promotion quickly" sums it up - it's like there's no thought as to what happens when we do get promoted.  And when I see fans almost actively celebrating it ("I don't care about academy players, we won 3-0" type stuff) I just find it a bit sad really.  I want the club to be in the premier league, I want the club to play good football, and I want to see academy players getting into the first team and doing well, and I want the club to be actively trying to make all that stuff happen, not just flailing around doing stuff at random and hoping that one day it might work.

(and breathe...)

I think you are making the mistake a lot of us Rams fans make - that a 30k ground = Prem football. Attendances mean nothing in the Prem. That’s why the likes of Bournemouth don’t improve the ground. What you do need is an owner to invest millions in the right way . DC has saved us . Let’s not try to run before we can walk. We are probably 5-10 managers away from the Prem. Warne should be able to get us up the first step while losing just £3million season.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, winktheram said:

Right snidy comments. Whilst as part of the interview with Dom, it's always aimed at the fans, like we don't know what were talking about. Also wittering on about appreciating the fans that didn't leave when BR equalised, which was a sarky comment about those that did. I must be one of those that doesn't know football as he implied he went 3/5 at the back at half time where it was when he brought the Colossus Sonny Bradley on after our goal for me. At a point where we weren't in any trouble and BR hadn't done anything 2nd half. Almost a change to invite them on. But I might have missed the tactical change at half time as I was half cut but I'm sure Warne just plays games with these interviews.

I can’t help but feel we’re trying to find as many things as possible to slag PW off about (there are plenty of fully justified reasons without searching out half hearted reasons). I agree the comment about formation was a tad unnecessary but I’m sure Dom will get over it. With regard to any fans that may have left, personally I don’t think he was being sarky and I don’t think he was “wittering on”, he made one comment, I’m sure he’s said it before (he may even have said it in this interview, I’ve not listened back to it) that he gets it when/if fans leave before the final whistle. 

[Foreveram]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What on earth are we going to do with him, he's really awful. Nowhere near Martin for their goal. Fairly bad with the ball at his feet and a mistake just waiting to happen. Why would you let Warne spend any more of the budget in January?

Maybe it’s because we’ve won our last three league games with an aggregate of 9-1 and we are 6 points off the automatic promotion place.

[Caerphilly Ram]

24 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

Irrelevant point

It’s genuinely not. The players you have just said you “hate”; which to me seems an extreme emotion to feel towards an individual or group of individuals who are representing our club to the best of what may be limited abilities, but you feel how you feel 🤷🏻‍♂️; are partly here because of the administration and consequences there of.

It’s not an excuse for poor performances as such but it is a relevant point to provide context for the current make up of our squad and the ongoing rebuild of the club both on and off the field. That’s irrespective of Warne being manager, or if a new manager comes in, or the hypothetical scenario of Rosenior staying. There simply has to be an element of accepting the club went into administration, lost players as a result, and had to sign players under and agreed business plan for the last two seasons.
The effectiveness of those signings, the manager, the owner etc are more detailed conversations that are had in an infinite cycle on here at the moment, the fact the club nearly went bust and is in some ways still recovering from that cannot (in my view) be termed “irrelevant”. 
 

But you do you and all that 

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

I can’t help but feel we’re trying to find as many things as possible to slag PW off about (there are plenty of fully justified reasons without searching out half hearted reasons). I agree the comment about formation was a tad unnecessary but I’m sure Dom will get over it. With regard to any fans that may have left, personally I don’t think he was being sarky and I don’t think he was “wittering on”, he made one comment, I’m sure he’s said it before (he may even have said it in this interview, I’ve not listened back to it) that he gets it when/if fans leave before the final whistle. 

“We’re” not, however I think some are so fed up with Warne (as is their right of course) that they simply see fault in any and all of his actions, comments, headwear and the like. 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

We are getting results now. Maybe performances will improve but I don’t think I have ever felt so little confidence in or interest in a manager or group of players as I do now. I can’t wait to see the back of Collins in particular, I hate him with a passion. But I can’t stand the sight of Smith, Hourihane, Barkhuizen, Washington, Waghorn, Forsyth, Mendez Laing and most of all Sonny bloody Bradley. I want to see the lot of them cleared out in the summer and to be honest I won’t cry a river to see Cashin, Bird and Sibley go as well. Bored to tears with the lot of them. A clean start is what we need, just hope it’s with a new manager as well

I think you may be happier elswhere 😂

[duncanjwitham]

41 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

I think you are making the mistake a lot of us Rams fans make - that a 30k ground = Prem football. Attendances mean nothing in the Prem. That’s why the likes of Bournemouth don’t improve the ground. What you do need is an owner to invest millions in the right way . DC has saved us . Let’s not try to run before we can walk. We are probably 5-10 managers away from the Prem. Warne should be able to get us up the first step while losing just £3million season.

I'm not saying that a 30k stadium gives us a divine right to be in the prem or anything, just that we have the capability and facilities to be one.  So what do we have to do to make that happen?  We can't just sit around twiddling our thumbs hoping a rich owner comes along, because what happens if one never does?  The onus is on the club to do everything it can to make the most of the stuff that we can control. 

Academy-wise, we are in an excellent position - we're a one-club city, with only 2 other major clubs within any kind of distance, so we should be in a strong position to compete for the best youngsters across the whole East Midlands.  That is a massive in-built advantage that we should be chasing, not binning off because the current management don't seem interested in anything beyond the next 5 minutes.  If we can't compete with the rich clubs for for buying players, then we should be focussing on developing our own.  You don't get to be "5-10 managers away from the prem" if your current manager isn't actually building anything.

And beyond anything else, a strong academy system is an attractive feature to a potential rich owner.  Who would you rather buy, a club with a squad full of 30 year olds who are all out of contract in the summer, or a team with a load of promising 18-23 year olds in the team, and a bunch more ready to come in if they move on.

[Topram]

2 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

We are getting results now. Maybe performances will improve but I don’t think I have ever felt so little confidence in or interest in a manager or group of players as I do now. I can’t wait to see the back of Collins in particular, I hate him with a passion. But I can’t stand the sight of Smith, Hourihane, Barkhuizen, Washington, Waghorn, Forsyth, Mendez Laing and most of all Sonny bloody Bradley. I want to see the lot of them cleared out in the summer and to be honest I won’t cry a river to see Cashin, Bird and Sibley go as well. Bored to tears with the lot of them. A clean start is what we need, just hope it’s with a new manager as well

Jesus Christ you’ve just made Roymac sound like a happy clapper

[Tamworthram]

49 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

“We’re” not, however I think some are so fed up with Warne (as is their right of course) that they simply see fault in any and all of his actions, comments, headwear and the like. 

Yes sorry. I was using the Royal “we” in order to avoid it looking as if I was trying to single out individuals.

[Caerphilly Ram]

10 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I'm not saying that a 30k stadium gives us a divine right to be in the prem or anything, just that we have the capability and facilities to be one.  So what do we have to do to make that happen?  We can't just sit around twiddling our thumbs hoping a rich owner comes along, because what happens if one never does?  The onus is on the club to do everything it can to make the most of the stuff that we can control. 

Academy-wise, we are in an excellent position - we're a one-club city, with only 2 other major clubs within any kind of distance, so we should be in a strong position to compete for the best youngsters across the whole East Midlands.  That is a massive in-built advantage that we should be chasing, not binning off because the current management don't seem interested in anything beyond the next 5 minutes.  If we can't compete with the rich clubs for for buying players, then we should be focussing on developing our own.  You don't get to be "5-10 managers away from the prem" if your current manager isn't actually building anything.

And beyond anything else, a strong academy system is an attractive feature to a potential rich owner.  Who would you rather buy, a club with a squad full of 30 year olds who are all out of contract in the summer, or a team with a load of promising 18-23 year olds in the team, and a bunch more ready to come in if they move on.

Have you listened to the recent interview with Matt Hale about the academy and the direction there? There is clearly an intention from the club to invest in and rebuild the academy, it may just take more time than some are willing to give it. 
So many people seem hung up on Warne being this barrier to the long term success of the club, he will either serve a purpose in the club moving forward, or he won’t and he’ll be gone. It’s clear to me from what I’ve read and heard from the club beyond just Paul Warne being the first team manager that infrastructure is being put in place that will benefit us in time, either with players able to join the first team squad or for selling on. There isn’t any “sitting around and twiddling thumbs”

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

... but I’m finished with the bloke and his stupid hats - sooner he’s gone the better…..

Before I venture forth to discuss further the topic of millinery, to which you refer, may I be so bold as to enquire upon the possibility of whether your avatar is in fact a personal and accurate physical depiction of your real life good self?

One is enquiring on behalf of one's intimate companion.

👀

 

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

I think you may be happier elswhere 😂

I think a two week holiday in The Doldrums should perk him up!  😁

[Gaspode]

3 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Before I venture forth to discuss further the topic of millinery, to which you refer, may I be so bold as to enquire upon the possibility of whether your avatar is in fact a personal and accurate physical depiction of your real life good self?

One is enquiring on behalf of one's intimate companion.

👀

 

I’m afraid not - it’s been many years since I sported hair of a similar length to the late, great Mr Zappa (didn’t stop one poster from sending me a PM calling me a ‘long haired nonce’ after i suggested in a post that he needed to chill for his own wellbeing though! 🤣)

[duncanjwitham]

43 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Have you listened to the recent interview with Matt Hale about the academy and the direction there? There is clearly an intention from the club to invest in and rebuild the academy, it may just take more time than some are willing to give it. 
So many people seem hung up on Warne being this barrier to the long term success of the club, he will either serve a purpose in the club moving forward, or he won’t and he’ll be gone. It’s clear to me from what I’ve read and heard from the club beyond just Paul Warne being the first team manager that infrastructure is being put in place that will benefit us in time, either with players able to join the first team squad or for selling on. There isn’t any “sitting around and twiddling thumbs”

At the sake of repeating the massive post I made only a page or 2 ago... If you don't give chances to the lads that are ready to break through, then you're basically writing off that bunch of players.  They won't break through if you don't give them chance to.  And you're also sending the message out to potential academy recruits (and current academy lads who are being linked with moves away) that there's no point being a youth player at Derby, as they don't give youngsters a chance.  We had a fantastic reputation for bringing players into the first team, to the extent that young players were picking us over premier league academies, and we're systematically shredding that reputation.  So it really doesn't matter what Hale and co are actually doing to the academy, if the manager doesn't have the same vision.

[Archied]

33 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

At the sake of repeating the massive post I made only a page or 2 ago... If you don't give chances to the lads that are ready to break through, then you're basically writing off that bunch of players.  They won't break through if you don't give them chance to.  And you're also sending the message out to potential academy recruits (and current academy lads who are being linked with moves away) that there's no point being a youth player at Derby, as they don't give youngsters a chance.  We had a fantastic reputation for bringing players into the first team, to the extent that young players were picking us over premier league academies, and we're systematically shredding that reputation.  So it really doesn't matter what Hale and co are actually doing to the academy, if the manager doesn't have the same vision.

I’ve got it ,,,,,,, let’s do away with the first team and concentrate on developing youngsters 😂😂😂,

good win yesterday, in to the top 6 ( hull dropping out ) , closer to the autos than last season ,,,, who cares 😂😂😂😂😂

[duncanjwitham]

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

I’ve got it ,,,,,,, let’s do away with the first team and concentrate on developing youngsters 😂😂😂,

good win yesterday, in to the top 6 ( hull dropping out ) , closer to the autos than last season ,,,, who cares 😂😂😂😂😂

I refer you to my previous comments...

On 22/11/2023 at 13:36, duncanjwitham said:

And when I see fans almost actively celebrating it ("I don't care about academy players, we won 3-0" type stuff) I just find it a bit sad really.  I want the club to be in the premier league, I want the club to play good football, and I want to see academy players getting into the first team and doing well, and I want the club to be actively trying to make all that stuff happen, not just flailing around doing stuff at random and hoping that one day it might work.

[Jimbo Ram]

14 minutes ago, Archied said:

I’ve got it ,,,,,,, let’s do away with the first team and concentrate on developing youngsters 😂😂😂,

good win yesterday, in to the top 6 ( hull dropping out ) , closer to the autos than last season ,,,, who cares 😂😂😂😂😂

What’s with the Hull reference, aren’t you pleased Liam is doing so well 🤔

[Caerphilly Ram]

15 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I refer you to my previous comments...

Your previous comments that the club is “flailing around doing stuff at random” or “sitting around twiddling thumbs”, whilst actively dismissing what employees at the club other than Warne have to say seem to do both the club and yourself a disservice.
There is work being done off the pitch to stabilise and grow the club whilst running sustainably, there is a strategy to invest in and grow the academy, some are keen to argue that the first team not being populated with academy graduates is a problem yet Bird, Sibley, Cashin, Thompson, Rooney, and Knight last season have all played minutes under Warne, Brown and others have been training consistently with the first team.
Have there been opportunities for Warne to give more minutes to young players? Yeah sure there has. Is he completely ignoring the academy? Not in my opinion. Could it be that the challenge of balancing a squad of seasoned pros all drawing a wage at the club has to take some priority in the short term? Could it be that some of those senior pros will move on at the end of the season and allow further opportunities to some of the current academy crop who will have benefitted from spending time building their skills and confidence in their own age groups with the occasional experience around the first team? There are other perspectives and possibilities to consider for me. 
 

You are of course entitled to your views, I just see it being quite clear there is some work being done on the academy that may well bear fruit in the medium term rather than the short. 
 

EDIT - And to be clear, this isn’t a pro Warne post, just a pro patience one. Warne won’t be here forever, the work being done off the field and in the academy is important to the long term future of the club regardless of who the first team manager is. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram