Warne Out Out

[Jayram]

19 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Agreed, but on top of that, you want to see signs that we're building something.  If we'd given decent minutes to the likes of Thompson, Robinson, Brown, Rooney even, and signed a few more players like Fornah and Wilson, you'd be willing to tolerate a season or 2 extra in League One.  Then you go up with those guys all hitting the 20-25 year old range, they should mostly be good enough to step up,  and you don't need a massive rebuild.   

Exactly, by progressive I also meant the philosophy at the club being completely in tune at all levels, playing the same style so we can bring through our youngsters seamlessly from youth team to first team. But that style has to be one that’s entertaining and exciting. It’s not a lot to ask and would make L1 a lot more tolerable.

 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Exactly, by progressive I also meant the philosophy at the club being completely in tune at all levels, playing the same style so we can bring through our youngsters seamlessly from youth team to first team. But that style has to be one that’s entertaining and exciting. It’s not a lot to ask and would make L1 a lot more tolerable.

 

I do wonder if DC will be happy to see his Cat.1 Academy play in the manner of the first team currently?

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Good enough for promotion but based on attendances I’d be shocked if there are more than 4 teams with bigger budgets than us. 

So you think we have a top 1 or 2 budget and therefore should be getting automatic promotion. 

Cant argue with that logic because that pretty much follows the reason why I think we should be in the play offs this season and also should have been last season.

[duncanjwitham]

22 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

IN the current situation, I'm thinking the reason Warne is still manager is Derby are well-placed in the league. 5 points off a play off place and 8 points off 2nd place. With 96 points to play for.

Whilst the football is not brilliant, we are still winning games (won 6, lost 5). 

3 wins in our last 13 home league games, if my maths is right. No matter what the league table says right now, that's not a sustainable platform to build a promotion challenge on.

23 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Many experts would state that winning ugly, and when not playing well is a positive thing, and gives room for improvement.

The proviso of that "good teams find ways to win when they play badly" argument, is that good teams play well and win the rest of the time, and then find ways to get it done when they don't.  Playing badly all the time, but managing to win some of them, does not make you a good team.

[Mostyn6]

9 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

3 wins in our last 13 home league games, if my maths is right. No matter what the league table says right now, that's not a sustainable platform to build a promotion challenge on.

The proviso of that "good teams find ways to win when they play badly" argument, is that good teams play well and win the rest of the time, and then find ways to get it done when they don't.  Playing badly all the time, but managing to win some of them, does not make you a good team.

point 1, the season isn't 13 home league games, and poor spells do not define a season. See Sheff Weds run in last season as an example. AS long as there's a good run in there, which Warne has had a couple of already.

point 2, I never said playing badly and winning makes a good team, I said it's a positive thing with room for improvement.

[Alty_Ram]

Well it seems that Clowes has put this one to bed for now at least because I just don't see him doing such a dramatic U-turn and he wants to do things 'properly'. Admirable and fair play to him.

I'll obviously (as usual) still turn up and back the team but I have to be honest, this season (for me at least) is really not very enjoyable - just too many frustrations and too many let downs and I'm not really getting much/any kind of match day buzz. The standard of the football, the lack of consistency and cohesion is hugely frustrating and I don't have much faith that Warne will improve that. We had statements from the club recently talking about possession-based attacking football from the academy up, but fundamentally I just don't see how this squares with Warne's approach to football.

We are where we are though I guess. As you were Paul... I'm not sure what you can come up with to improve things but by all means go for it. Go ahead, surprise me *shrug*...

[YorkshireRam]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

He was managing the Club on an interim basis. He applied for the job and didn't get it. Then according to others posting currently about it, he was offered another position, or he wasn't offered another position as there was no place with Warne.

So he left. Hardly surprising that he didn't stay what position could he have been offered?

Here we go, Warne from 27/09/22- cheers for the heads up @Srg: 

''"I hope to see him back in the dugout soon because I think he has got loads to give the game. He's really positive, upbeat and really honest. And they are the characteristics I like in people. It wasn't like I turned up and his car went out the back door and I came in through the front door. Everything was amicable and it's my job now to lead this club forward."

So no job immediately lined up and heavy implication Warne was favoured over Rosenior. Think I read that at the time but didn't quite absorb what was meant, that's a shame as I do still believe Liam would have done a great job spearheading the rebuild and fans would have been more patient with him as it would have been clear what the vision was. 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Here we go, Warne from 27/09/22- cheers for the heads up @Srg: 

''"I hope to see him back in the dugout soon because I think he has got loads to give the game. He's really positive, upbeat and really honest. And they are the characteristics I like in people. It wasn't like I turned up and his car went out the back door and I came in through the front door. Everything was amicable and it's my job now to lead this club forward."

So no job immediately lined up and heavy implication Warne was favoured over Rosenior. Think I read that at the time but didn't quite absorb what was meant, that's a shame as I do still believe Liam would have done a great job spearheading the rebuild and fans would have been more patient with him as it would have been clear what the vision was. 

What's your point? That is what I said. Warne got the job. The 'promotion specialist' was preferred to Rosenior.

Still waiting for Warne to lead the Club forward btw.

[Barney1991]

9 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

So, just to clarify, the man who saved this 139 year institution at the heart of a city and surrounding areas from extinction with his money, re-hired colleagues who’s livelihoods had been taken away, worked to rebuild the reputation of the club off the pitch by doing things like donating “sponsorship” to a national charity, is looking to run the club as sustainably as possible to secure its long term future, invested in the upkeep of the stadium after years of neglect (after buying that back too), worked collaboratively with the EFL to rebuild relationships long soured, continued to invest in the academy, realigned the football side to include the women’s team, and probably a few more things I can’t recall that others might ….has failed to match your personal opinion and expectations that Warne isn’t the right man for us right now and therefore should be sacked, so you’re disappointed in him? 

And then hired a manager who is not interested in the academy 

[Jubbs]

55 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Can anyone remember what league position we were in when Rosenior was relieved of his duties? I've got 10th in my head. I also seem to recall fans spitting feathers about how abysmal Rosenior's Derby were when playing away from Pride Park. 

We were 7th after his last game but a few teams played on more game than us before Rosenior left. 

People go on about the away form, yet it was a complete anomaly. We had over 5 xG and hadn't scored a goal. It would have reverted to the mean and the results would've been fine, also Warne's first away games were Cambridge and Accrington, two easy games. Technically the only comparison we can make on those two's away games last season is Mansfield away, which Rosenior won and Warne didn't, both were cup games.

The performances were good (only poor one was Lincoln) and certainly better than Warne's. We also played none of the poor teams, which is where Warne got his best results.

[Caerphilly Ram]

5 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

And then hired a manager who is not interested in the academy 

Ah yeah of course, so then everything else is a moot point?

For me this situation is not and never will be as binary as some people are keen to suggest. It is always more complex than simply Warne in or out. Clowes saved the club, is rebuilding the reputation and rebuilding/reinforcing the infrastructure from what I have read, heard and seen. Warne will only ever be here temporarily whether that’s the length of his current contract, an extension beyond that, a resignation before then or a sacking. The work Clowes is doing for the clubs future extends beyond the appointment of Warne for me, even if that proves to be a misstep there’ll still be a club beyond Warne and that matters. 

[Raich Carter]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. They could have gone down the pub.

Which is apparently where Lionel and TBE had a lot of their meetings - didn't turn out too bad did it (for us, not so well for poor Lionel).

[Barney1991]

2 hours ago, WilkoRam said:

I agree completely with your last paragraph. Clowes is the owner and the sole reason we still have a club. If he feels that Warne should have more time then that’s his choice. I’m ashamed at some people’s personal attacks on him and on Warne. Completely uncalled for.

The first part is just more guess work though and I only highlight it as you posted about material facts having long since gone and then proceed to make assumptions as to EFL restrictions possibly being in place. Who knows?

Clowes has made his decision, I hope it works and the football and results improve. I have nothing against Warne I just haven’t enjoyed much of our football this season and that’s a shame.

On that topic- my eldest daughter has got into football and there’s a battle at the moment between her supporting Derby or Tottenham (my wife’s team). Last season I think I was edging it, helped by taking her to some games (which is easier than getting tickets for Spurs). Also helped by Spurs playing awful football and the atmosphere being pretty toxic. This year I have no hope though, to sit bored watching Derby or watch some great entertainment with Spurs, which would you choose? I think as well that’s where we are, we’re Spurs of last year. We’ve gone for a “proven winner” but the football is poor and the results aren’t good enough for fans to swallow that style, it’s creating a divided fanbase. We’re not going to get a Big Ange through the door but what a difference a manager can make, someone who wants to entertain the fans, who’s happy for them to get excited and carried away. How I’d love that at Derby, instead I know my Daughter will be a Spurs fan now and I can’t blame her.

We got too fixated on going for a manager who as many have said is a league 1 winner. He got one team promoted but that doesn’t mean he was ever gonna go to another team and relocate it. Managing derby and Rotherham are polar opposites. Managers and teams when playing us will use it as a cup final and look to get a scalp whereas playing Rotherham they will see this game totally different. 
 

I’ve lost count of the games where he has been tactically outdone by other managers. Last season managers made tweaks at half time and second half we never recovered. 
 

the championship is a whole new ball game and tactically a different beast where the football is a good watch. Rotherham and Sheffield Wednesday both rooted to the bottom of the league played some great football at weekend. 

you can see why he’s been relegated 3 times from the championship. He can not tactically alter a game in play. Also I’ve never seen a derby manager to be more worried about the opposition like the Cheltenham game who hadn’t won and scored all season and he said we decided to not play through the middle. We’ve never played through the middle it’s get it wide and put crosses in. Stevenage worked this out like a dream and we had no other game plan. The one time we get it on the deck and play for what seems to be 15 minutes per game we score a lovely worked goal 

[Raich Carter]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

They know because it's published in every club's annual accounts.  Admittedly it's total staff costs for the entire club (including all employees etc), but player wages will dominate that anyway.  Presumably we'll find out what our wage bill for last season was when our next set of accounts are produced.

Also, clubs can link sponsorship fees, attendances and merchandise sales to revenue + bigger clubs typically get on TV more therefore more £.

The other factor is we don't really know how many L1 clubs are running a la Mel Morris with borrowings.

 

[YorkshireRam]

33 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What's your point? That is what I said. Warne got the job. The 'promotion specialist' was preferred to Rosenior.

Still waiting for Warne to lead the Club forward btw.

I asked for a source and you repeatedly failed to produce one so I just did it myself. I was never contesting what you were saying I just wanted proof either way...

[ossieram]

4 hours ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

What matters is on the pitch for fans most couldn't give 2 f**** about the rest if we are abysmal on the pitch on a Saturday and have a manager that most are growing to hate quite frankly. I am not saying that Clowes is a bad owner but he will be soon be viewed as one irregardless of any community work if things continue how they are on the pitch and he takes too long to act and keeps faith in Warne.

So you reckon the 10,000+ that marched from town were more interested in winning the match than saving the club.

Maybe you and a few more need to realise that without Clowes nothing would be happening on the pitch and you'd have to find something else to bitch and whine about. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, ossieram said:

So you reckon the 10,000+ that marched from town were more interested in winning the match than saving the club.

Maybe you and a few more need to realise that without Clowes nothing would be happening on the pitch and you'd have to find something else to bitch and whine about. 

You do know we've been to the wire as a Club more than once. This time Clowes rescued us, previous times it was someone else. It's the Club that matters and that is being debated, not what a good guy Clowes was for rescuing us.

[Mostyn6]

29 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

And then hired a manager who is not interested in the academy 

He doesn't need to be. There's an academy director and a staff for that. Warne only needs to be interested once a player from the academy is ready for the first team.

[IlsonDerby]

59 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you think we have a top 1 or 2 budget and therefore should be getting automatic promotion. 

Cant argue with that logic because that pretty much follows the reason why I think we should be in the play offs this season and also should have been last season.

I look at Portsmouth perhaps? I know Oxford have spent a bit. Bolton manager reckons their budget is half of Wednesday and Ipswich’s last season (they’d have been huge for this level tbf). I’m just can’t see who else would have a bigger budget. 

[TINMANTED]

in my opinion,clowes has pinned his hopes on some sort of disney/holywood style miracle, which if most likely fails,could condem us to years in this god forbiden league.failure to get out this season means next season we have a full on warne/league one squad,far worse than we have now,and the longer you stay in this league,the harder it is to get out