Derby v Carlisle (A) Match Thread

[B4ev6is]

2 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

Steele was super negative on Saturday after our win. Most of what he said was nonsense, having watched the game myself he was completely wrong.

It actually comes across like he has an agenda & like he is trying to force an opinion onto fans who cant watch the game & seems to forget fans can also watch away games via Rams TV.

I used to like his summarising but this season he seems way off.

I said that from day one with him.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Curtains said:

I take issue with the impatience.

Thats it .

What would Dave Mackay have said to you David about you taking issue with the impatience?

Dave always had you worked out didn't he? That's why you loved the guy wasn't it? Just tell us what Dave would have said about your issue.

 

[Guest]

What would Dave Mackay have said to you David about you taking issue with the impatience?

Dave always had you worked out didn't he? That's why you loved the guy wasn't it? Just tell us what Dave would have said about your issue.

Alex Ferguson wrote the foreword to Dave Mackay's autobiography. In it, he said that as a schoolboy when he was picking his best ever Scotland side, the first name on the team sheet was always Mackay as the captain. Ferguson said that when Eric Steele worked under him at Man. Utd., Eric was the best goalkeeping coach in the world and he was responsible for bringing David de Gea through to keep goal for him when he was winning PL titles. But on here tonight you are doubting Eric big time as if he's some sort of fool. You seem to have forgotten everything that Dave told you about yourself 😂.

I bet you're glad that you won't have to answer to Dave this morning aren't you?

Edited September 26, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[SKRam]

Popped on for a reminder of the doom and gloom after three points away from home. You haven’t failed me. 
Thanks 

[Curtains]

6 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

What would Dave Mackay have said to you David about you taking issue with the impatience?

Dave always had you worked out didn't he? That's why you loved the guy wasn't it? Just tell us what Dave would have said about your issue.

Alex Ferguson wrote the foreword to Dave Mackay's autobiography. In it, he said that as a schoolboy when he was picking his best ever Scotland side, the first name on the team sheet was always Mackay as the captain. Ferguson said that when Eric Steele worked under him at Man. Utd., Eric was the best goalkeeping coach in the world and he was responsible for bringing David de Gea through to keep goal for him when he was winning PL titles. But on here tonight you are doubting Eric big time as if he's some sort of fool. You seem to have forgotten everything that Dave told you about yourself 😂.

I bet you're glad that you won't have to answer to Dave this morning aren't you?

 

“Spirit on and off saw them through a few times “ 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Curtains

[Curtains]

6 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

What would Dave Mackay have said to you David about you taking issue with the impatience?

Dave always had you worked out didn't he? That's why you loved the guy wasn't it? Just tell us what Dave would have said about your issue.

Alex Ferguson wrote the foreword to Dave Mackay's autobiography. In it, he said that as a schoolboy when he was picking his best ever Scotland side, the first name on the team sheet was always Mackay as the captain. Ferguson said that when Eric Steele worked under him at Man. Utd., Eric was the best goalkeeping coach in the world and he was responsible for bringing David de Gea through to keep goal for him when he was winning PL titles. But on here tonight you are doubting Eric big time as if he's some sort of fool. You seem to have forgotten everything that Dave told you about yourself 😂.

I bet you're glad that you won't have to answer to Dave this morning aren't you?

Are you a barrister Graham 

[hintonsboots]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Are you a barrister Graham 

Are you outing @Brailsford Ram as a Barrister or as Graham Richards or both ? 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Are you outing @Brailsford Ram as a Barrister or as Graham Richards or both ? 

Look Gladys I’m surmising lol.

He keeps interrogating me 😂 

[hintonsboots]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Look Gladys I’m surmising lol.

He keeps interrogating me 😂 

Sorry mi lord.

[DanS1992]

14 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

Steele was super negative on Saturday after our win. Most of what he said was nonsense, having watched the game myself he was completely wrong.

It actually comes across like he has an agenda & like he is trying to force an opinion onto fans who cant watch the game & seems to forget fans can also watch away games via Rams TV.

I used to like his summarising but this season he seems way off.

I thought he was spot on and said it how it is. Good defensively, but crap on the ball. You can’t deny that in possession we are awful and the build up play in pretty nonexistent. Fair and true appraisal. How is that negative? All he is doing is saying it how it is, what’s wrong with that? Analysts and commentators should try it more often instead of trying to polish something that can’t be polished.

Edited September 26, 2023 by DanS1992

[kevinhectoring]

On 23/09/2023 at 18:14, Caerphilly Ram said:

Here’s Warne’s post match interview with the club. He talks about performances and results in the first 2 mins for those who don’t like to listen to him.

He makes similar comments to what he said on the radio, he wants better performance but ultimately if we win that’s what matters.

As I understand this Warne is saying what everyone on here keeps debating. He talks about not using the ball well enough, he says there were too many unforced errors, he says he wants and believes there will be better performances and that ultimately results matter.

Interestingly he talks about it being a tough week (Vickers related?) and he said in his pre match interview he felt something in training hadn’t been right. 

“It doesn’t matter how we play if we win”.  
Wrong wrong wrong 

[Archied]

On 25/09/2023 at 22:28, europia said:

Tend to agree with that. We achieved the win, but in no way convincingly. Good performances are a precursor to any success.  

Yet most of the time when sides are underperforming or have injuries it’s pretty much a given that managers revert to grinding out some clean sheets and getting some points in the bank 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Ghost of Clough]

15 hours ago, Curtains said:

Do you want him sacked right away then .

I want him to be successful as that means the club is being successful too. Everything Warne says he wants, sounds like everything I want to see too. I go to every game thinking this will finally be the game where everything clicks into place. However, we're now moving on to game 56 under Warne...

 

When I look at the short term target of promotion, and I currently struggle to see how we'll achieve it. The results aren't sustainable due to the style of play. 7 of our 14 league goals have come directly or indirectly from set pieces, and we've created very few good chances from open play, and have been fortunate that the ball has landed at Waghorn's feet from Washington/Mendez-Laing shots. Take 'luck' out of the equation and we're currently a bottom half side.

Many point towards injuries as a problem, but these are partly self-inflicted due to style of play and intensity of training. If coached well, the players who come into the side will be able to play the same style of football as the first choice(s). The excuse given suggests we can only play as Warne intends when Bird and Ward are fit. Warne wants runners in midfield (which excludes Hourihane), only used Rooney and Thompson when others were injured.

 

I also look at the long term future of the club. All around me in the South Stand I hear people complaining about the quality of football on show. These are mostly Season Ticket Holders. If they're contemplating not going next season, your casual match goer will give up much sooner. I'm currently expecting a big drop in attendances and match receipts next season, with that financial impact hurting the club further.

I see no serious effort to work with the academy. He doesn't know who they are, even when he attends the game and one of the payers scores a hattrick. Thompson and Rooney have only been used because Warne 'didn't have anyone else'. He openly stated he had no-one other than Smith and Hourihane as an option in the middle, despite Thompson being an unused sub and impressing in pre-season (out of position). What chance do the best of the U21s have? How does that motivate them to push harder for a shot in the first team? He hasn't given any minutes in the league to any player not already viewed as part of the first team squad since becoming manager.

Warne's views on introducing youngsters to the first team are outdated, and contradictory to every other top level academy. Take Robinson as a key example. He was given his first taste of league football in the final 10 minutes of a Championship game. Warne recently said he didn't trust him enough to five him games. Hence, why his game time under Warne has been limited to just 45 minutes in the Pizza Cup against L2 opposition. Warne's comments suggest they have to be of L1 standard before they can play a single minute in the League. I wonder how long we would have had to wait to see Bird, Knight, Sibley, Buchanan, Whittaker, Cashin etc if Warne was manager at the time.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Warne's views on introducing youngsters to the first team are outdated, and contradictory to every other top level academy. Take Robinson as a key example. He was given his first taste of league football in the final 10 minutes of a Championship game. Warne recently said he didn't trust him enough to five him games. Hence, why his game time under Warne has been limited to just 45 minutes in the Pizza Cup against L2 opposition. Warne's comments suggest they have to be of L1 standard before they can play a single minute in the League. I wonder how long we would have had to wait to see Bird, Knight, Sibley, Buchanan, Whittaker, Cashin etc if Warne was manager at the time.

Great post but also a very worrying one because as things stand at the moment, the development of homegrown players has never been more important for the club; it's a vital resource which risks being wasted. The attitude of the present manager couldn't be in greater contrast to our greatest ever manager in terms of blooding young players. On 1st May 1972. Clough didn't hesitate to throw a 16 years-old schoolboy into the fray to face Liverpool in our final game of the season which ultimately clinched the League title. Paul Warne would be well advised to consider that classic episode and the fact that it was academy youngsters who made a vital contribution to us avoiding relegation on the pitch just two years ago as we had to succumb to penalty points for our financial failings. It's still irks me how Paul Warne embarrassingly fawned over Jurgen Klopp last season. He'd have melted if he'd ever come across Brian Clough.

For our older members, here's the recollection from all those years ago as to just how valuable youngsters can be in men's football:

Of course, if Rams fans were at all realistic, they did not expect the title to come our way. Both Leeds and Liverpool had a game in hand over Derby and even if the Rams succeeded in their last game, against the Anfield club, it would still take an unlikely set of results to hand Derby the trophy. Nevertheless, on that warm May Day evening over 39,000 fans packed the Baseball Ground for an all-ticket sell-out match vital to both sides with some 3,000 ticketless Liverpool fans in the streets surrounding the ground, unable to get in. 

That afternoon, Brian Clough had visited the Derby Evening Telegraph offices in Northcliffe House to ensure that Steve Powell’s family would be attending tonight’s game. Clough didn’t want them to miss it. He and Peter Taylor had decided that 16-year-old Steve would play at right back in place of Ron Webster who was injured. Steve, with the permission of Dr. Chapman, the headmaster, had been excused from lessons that day at Bemrose School where he was soon to sit his GCE 'O' level examinations. He was with the Rams squad at the Midland Hotel but he was not to be told that he was playing until the players reached the sanctuary of the dressing room at the Baseball Ground. Let Tommy Powell take up the story: 

“I was at work at the Telegraph and it was a night match. Somebody came up and said, ‘You’re wanted down in the front office.’ ‘That was the old offices. It was Brian (Clough). He said ‘I’m playing the bairn tonight.’ I said ‘You’re joking, aren’t you?’ ‘No,’ he said ‘he’ll be all right. I’ve just left them and he’s gone to bed.’ That was it.” 

Both Tommy and Steve had been pupils at Bemrose School. Tommy had made his debut for Derby County, aged 16, during the War years and went on to play 406 games for the club in peacetime. Steve was to go on and play 409 games plus 11 as a substitute. Derby County was to be the only League club that both father and son played for. They both finished their careers as Rams legends. 

When it was announced that Steve Powell had been chosen to replace the injured Ron Webster at right back, there were gasps of astonishment from the crowd. Normally, the last game of a season might be considered a good time to blood a youngster, and of course, Powell had already tasted senior football that season and thoroughly impressed. But was it right in the pressure cooker atmosphere of this match and against a team such as Liverpool with Keegan, Toshack and company? It was asking a lot. 

"Why am I considering a 16-year-old for such a vital match?" countered Clough in response to those journalists who questioned his wisdom before the match, "because he’s good enough. That’s all you have to worry about. I wouldn’t care if he was 14, providing I thought he was ready. I shall have no qualms about putting him in. He’s a regular right back in the Reserves, and he’s been playing some superb stuff." 

Powell though did more than just not let Derby down. He provided a cool head, mature beyond his boyish years, and abundant skill. Gerald Mortimer wrote in his match report, "Powell was brilliant. Not brilliant for a 16-year-old: just brilliant. Other players gave him the ball with confidence and he did not let them down. Such is his skill that anyone can pick him out now as a future England player and he is so level headed that such predictions will not affect his development." 

The £8-a-week apprentice produced such an assured performance that Shankly, a man whose opinions merited the highest respect, was unstinting in his praise. The cheeky confidence Powell radiated peaked in the memorable moments when he flicked the ball over the head of Emlyn Hughes, then ran round the England player to collect it and coolly pass to a team-mate, with a nonchalance of which George Best would have been proud.  

Steve Heighway and the dangerous duo of Kevin Keegan and John Toshack were being well held by Derby’s defence. The maturity Powell showed in dealing with the threat of Heighway made him look as though he had been playing First Division football for 10 years. 

COYR

Edited September 27, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Tyler Durden]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I want him to be successful as that means the club is being successful too. Everything Warne says he wants, sounds like everything I want to see too. I go to every game thinking this will finally be the game where everything clicks into place. However, we're now moving on to game 56 under Warne...

 

When I look at the short term target of promotion, and I currently struggle to see how we'll achieve it. The results aren't sustainable due to the style of play. 7 of our 14 league goals have come directly or indirectly from set pieces, and we've created very few good chances from open play, and have been fortunate that the ball has landed at Waghorn's feet from Washington/Mendez-Laing shots. Take 'luck' out of the equation and we're currently a bottom half side.

Many point towards injuries as a problem, but these are partly self-inflicted due to style of play and intensity of training. If coached well, the players who come into the side will be able to play the same style of football as the first choice(s). The excuse given suggests we can only play as Warne intends when Bird and Ward are fit. Warne wants runners in midfield (which excludes Hourihane), only used Rooney and Thompson when others were injured.

 

I also look at the long term future of the club. All around me in the South Stand I hear people complaining about the quality of football on show. These are mostly Season Ticket Holders. If they're contemplating not going next season, your casual match goer will give up much sooner. I'm currently expecting a big drop in attendances and match receipts next season, with that financial impact hurting the club further.

I see no serious effort to work with the academy. He doesn't know who they are, even when he attends the game and one of the payers scores a hattrick. Thompson and Rooney have only been used because Warne 'didn't have anyone else'. He openly stated he had no-one other than Smith and Hourihane as an option in the middle, despite Thompson being an unused sub and impressing in pre-season (out of position). What chance do the best of the U21s have? How does that motivate them to push harder for a shot in the first team? He hasn't given any minutes in the league to any player not already viewed as part of the first team squad since becoming manager.

Warne's views on introducing youngsters to the first team are outdated, and contradictory to every other top level academy. Take Robinson as a key example. He was given his first taste of league football in the final 10 minutes of a Championship game. Warne recently said he didn't trust him enough to five him games. Hence, why his game time under Warne has been limited to just 45 minutes in the Pizza Cup against L2 opposition. Warne's comments suggest they have to be of L1 standard before they can play a single minute in the League. I wonder how long we would have had to wait to see Bird, Knight, Sibley, Buchanan, Whittaker, Cashin etc if Warne was manager at the time.

Do you think other people connected to the club also see what you see

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Do you think other people connected to the club also see what you see

Others on here can see it or similar, why shouldn't others at the Club? 

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Others on here can see it or similar, why shouldn't others at the Club? 

Which is exactly my point.

The summary by the OP regards Warnes abandonment of the academy amongst other items approaches professional dereliction of duty.

So following on from your assumption that this is common knowledge at the club then why is Warne being allowed to behave so destructively towards the academy and youth players?

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Which is exactly my point.

The summary by the OP regards Warnes abandonment of the academy amongst other items approaches professional dereliction of duty.

So following on from your assumption that this is common knowledge at the club then why is Warne being allowed to behave so destructively towards the academy and youth players?

No he doesn't, he offers an opinion on what he sees is happening.

Just because others see the same thing, including those at the Club doesn't mean they agree or disagree, have to complain or praise.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

No he doesn't, he offers an opinion on what he sees is happening.

Just because others see the same thing, including those at the Club doesn't mean they agree or disagree, have to complain or praise.

 

Yes and let's assume that I agree with everything he's said.......so if it's that destructive and that toxic then why is no one at the club even questioning it?

[RoyMac5]

25 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Yes and let's assume that I agree with everything he's said.......so if it's that destructive and that toxic then why is no one at the club even questioning it?

How do you know what people at the Club are questioning?

Edited September 27, 2023 by RoyMac5