Entitlement

[TomTom92]

9 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Theyre hardly going to say were aiming for midtable though are they lol

every clubs aim start of the season is that goal thats spouted froM players and management alike 

I’m not sure the likes of Cheltenham are saying that…could be wrong. 
 
Plus not sure Warne would be here if midtable was an acceptable outcome. He knows outside top 6 and half the fans will be on his back.

[jono]

I’ve no illusions as to where we are or what we deserve. It’s 11 v 11 it always has been and always will be. 
 

We are in the third tier which considering the depth and breadth of our support along with our history; is below par. We have no right to success but have every right to be able to dream realistically. That to me, in the grand plan of things should be to be a competitive Championship club. That isn’t entitlement it’s an honest reflection. 
 

After huge trauma ( can I drop “existential” in there 🤪) we have appointed an experienced manager who is on a tight budget in a very strange post Covid market reset. He is also dealing with whatever other restrictions are in place.

I don’t think DC is an egotist. We will be run as a business and expected to make a long term profit wherever we are. 
 

I didn’t like the first half against Blackpool and there were parts of the opening game where we were far from the finished article and looked weak in some areas … but that brings us back to 11 v 11.

 

At this point, my only ambition( not expectation or entitlement ) is to see us win more than we lose. After that we can just go where the music takes us. 
 

 

 

[sage]

9 hours ago, Dave Mackay Ate My Hamster said:

I'm quite concerned at some fans over-reaction to our first two results of the season.

"Yes, we nearly went out of business, blah, blah, blah" some say "but that doesn't excuse everything", but I do see the same old sense of entitlement many of our fans exhibit, thinking we're too big for this league.

We're NOT as this precise moment in our history. The rebuild won't be as quick as the Harry Enfield character shouting "28,000 crowds" in a "loadsamoney" fashion. 

We're under financial restrictions which non of us are privy to.

Just rein it in for now. Allow the manager and team to develop and work out the myriad challenges that we need to wade through this season to get us where we need to be.

Remember Cloughie's first games and our renaissance post Igor. Success doesn't come quickly or easily.

It's a graft. We've not started as we wanted. But it's just ONE league game. There's 20 odd pages discussing whether Warne is on borrowed time!

Reality check. Please!

Then don't make a big deal about loosening of embargoes after the Sheff Wed game. We still haven't paid a fee or loan fee. 

Warne keeps sating we are 4 players short but then suggests we can only sign 2.

No one expected multi million pound signings, but we didn't expect three 30+ CFs with recent poor scoring records. 

Two things are clear, the actual budget is smaller than the anticipated one. 

Secondly we don't have enough players with pace to play the managers system, yet he signed slow players.

We were told this was going yo be a competitive squad. As it stands it isn't. 

When you have 2 or 3 times as many fans as rivals and you have a smaller squad, people are 'entitled' to be disappointed.

 

[hintonsboots]

7 hours ago, oldtimeram said:

It all started to fit into place after her was put in the team

An Eddie Izzard situation?

[Raich Carter]

9 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Not that I disagree with anything you have said, but that’s the sport we’re in. I wouldn’t say we’re anymore entitled than any other fan base, obviously we’re not used to being in the third tier - only our fourth year at this level in our history and I think fans are desperate for something to cheer about. It’s been four years since we spent a fee on a transfer, in time where our closest rival has spent the best part of a third of a billion pound to just compound matters. 

2 things on the bit highlighted:

1) We had a long time where we were ahead of them with Eranio, Baiano, etc. Florist fans seem to have forgotten that particular 20 year period of history. 

2) I hope with all my might that they go spectacularly bust. Their owner seems an absolute liability (Mr Creosote anyone) so if his heart finally gives in, I suspect they'll be right in the mire. I hasten to add, I'm not so mean-spirited as to wish the guy ill health. And his companies does seem pretty solid to be fair. But then so did Maxwell's...

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, TomTom92 said:

I’m not sure the likes of Cheltenham are saying that…could be wrong. 
 
Plus not sure Warne would be here if midtable was an acceptable outcome. He knows outside top 6 and half the fans will be on his back.

Ok … vast majority of players and managers 

u know what im getting at 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Raich Carter said:

2 things on the bit highlighted:

1) We had a long time where we were ahead of them with Eranio, Baiano, etc. Florist fans seem to have forgotten that particular 20 year period of history. 

2) I hope with all my might that they go spectacularly bust. Their owner seems an absolute liability (Mr Creosote anyone) so if his heart finally gives in, I suspect they'll be right in the mire. I hasten to add, I'm not so mean-spirited as to wish the guy ill health. And his companies does seem pretty solid to be fair. But then so did Maxwell's...

Was about to say something similar. I don't look at Forest with any jealousy, more worry (for them).  Their very good manager is holding it together. As soon as they sack him, for an entirely acceptable poor run of results, the whole thing will implode.

It's Brighton who I am properly jealous of. They were a promotion chasing Championship club when we were. But look how we were a class above them in the semi under Mac1. We just got steadily worse since then, and much poorer. They are at a level we can barely dream of.

[oldtimeram]

2 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

An Eddie Izzard situation?

Bloody auto text

[Sparkle]

4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Was about to say something similar. I don't look at Forest with any jealousy, more worry (for them).  Their very good manager is holding it together. As soon as they sack him, for an entirely acceptable poor run of results, the whole thing will implode.

It's Brighton who I am properly jealous of. They were a promotion chasing Championship club when we were. But look how we were a class above them in the semi under Mac1. We just got steadily worse since then, and much poorer. They are at a level we can barely dream of.

We were unlucky at that time period and Brighton had everything go their way at some point it won’t and they will be asking where everything went wrong 

[Foreveram]

23 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Was about to say something similar. I don't look at Forest with any jealousy, more worry (for them).  Their very good manager is holding it together. As soon as they sack him, for an entirely acceptable poor run of results, the whole thing will implode.

It's Brighton who I am properly jealous of. They were a promotion chasing Championship club when we were. But look how we were a class above them in the semi under Mac1. We just got steadily worse since then, and much poorer. They are at a level we can barely dream of.

Why would you dream of being 500 million in debt.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

21 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

We were unlucky at that time period and Brighton had everything go their way at some point it won’t and they will be asking where everything went wrong 

The first thing they did was tell their club Captain that even though he wanted a move to Derby it wasn't happening and he was seeing out the last year of his contract as he was needed.  They got promoted and he was their another 3 years.  Maybe we should follow their example more instead of batting our eyelashes at low ball offers and player swaps to free up their wages and add to ours restricting us further. 

[Gisby]

2 hours ago, sage said:

Then don't make a big deal about loosening of embargoes after the Sheff Wed game. We still haven't paid a fee or loan fee. 

Warne keeps sating we are 4 players short but then suggests we can only sign 2.

No one expected multi million pound signings, but we didn't expect three 30+ CFs with recent poor scoring records. 

Two things are clear, the actual budget is smaller than the anticipated one. 

Secondly we don't have enough players with pace to play the managers system, yet he signed slow players.

We were told this was going yo be a competitive squad. As it stands it isn't. 

When you have 2 or 3 times as many fans as rivals and you have a smaller squad, people are 'entitled' to be disappointed.

 

Yep …. Can’t argue with this. 

[IlsonDerby]

I think people were just starting to get their heads around what happened against Wigan when we were hit with one of the worst performances of the 21st century against Blackpool. Being ole’d at home against them as our players couldn’t get close enough to touch them. That was embarrassing. That’s not entitlement that’s an expectation that we’ll compete in every match at this level which we didn’t there. 

[Tyler Durden]

3 hours ago, sage said:

Then don't make a big deal about loosening of embargoes after the Sheff Wed game. We still haven't paid a fee or loan fee. 

Warne keeps sating we are 4 players short but then suggests we can only sign 2.

No one expected multi million pound signings, but we didn't expect three 30+ CFs with recent poor scoring records. 

Two things are clear, the actual budget is smaller than the anticipated one. 

Secondly we don't have enough players with pace to play the managers system, yet he signed slow players.

We were told this was going yo be a competitive squad. As it stands it isn't. 

When you have 2 or 3 times as many fans as rivals and you have a smaller squad, people are 'entitled' to be disappointed.

 

I think theres some conflation of points in your post but I agree with the broad content. 

The comms about the loosening of embargoes and competitive budgets for L1 could have been handled better but they both are general statements which could and obviously have been left open for misinterpretation in some supporters minds - but then not to defend Clowes or Warne he can't go into the precise pounds shillings and pence of our finances in an open forum. Not sure what else he was expected to say (again without seeming to defend either?)

If he had said we are now in a position to start paying transfer fees then that might have cleared those misconceptions up but then he isn't again going to say that in an open forum to let other clubs know we have cash knocking around is he. 

You said you didn't expect to have 3 thirty plus strikers with poor goalscoring records in this season, I honestly didn't know what to expect as I didn't know how much money we had to fling around for transfers etc which is related to the first points. 

I guess we all have a better idea now though which you've quite rightly stated.

Not sure if this is anything to do with entitlement though which was the OPs original musing. 

Hoping for a better matchday today. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Tyler Durden

[ariotofmyown]

34 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Why would you dream of being 500 million in debt.

I didn't know about that, just reading about it. It's a bit tricky to get your head round, yes they owe a huge amount, but it's to the owner of Brighton himself.

So he lends "the club" loads of money, but he also owns the club. Could he sell the club to me for a quid, but then the club I now own would owe him 500 million or so? Before he sold me the club, he could have also agreed (with himself) to repay the 500 million at an agressive 50 million a month.  Presumabley he doesn't even have to sell the club to do this, just agree the repayments with himself!

If this is basically correct, then they are ok as long as a) he doesn't start acting like Mel or b) Brighton stop finding players for peanuts that clubs want to spend 100 million each on! 

[Guest]

I think that they have been some overreactions for me.  It is clear that Warne’s Forays into the Market for a striker has been frustrating.  It’s not like he doesn’t know what’s needed.

I was at the Blackpool game.  Chalk and cheese between the first and second halves, he tried something in the first half, and it was just disastrous, either because his ideas were wrong or the players didn’t understand what he wanted.  But rather in a game like that then when it really counts.

If the Blackpool first and second halves would have been the same flavour and the result the same I do’t think the criticism would have been quite as harsh.

We are no doubt a big club, everything about us says a higher level is where we belong.  But the reality is we are where we are and whilst it is acceptable to have expectations, this can’t cross the border in to entitlement, we need to earn our status back after Morris threw it away.

[Tamworthram]

48 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Why would you dream of being 500 million in debt.

Spot on. Even a “well run club” like Brighton have creditors due within one year of £430m.

Just shows how broken football finances in general are.

[sage]

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I think theres some conflation of points in your post but I agree with the broad content. 

The comms about the loosening of embargoes and competitive budgets for L1 could have been handled better but they both are general statements which could and obviously have been left open for misinterpretation in some supporters minds - but then not to defend Clowes or Warne he can't go into the precise pounds shillings and pence of our finances in an open forum. Not sure what else he was expected to say (again without seeming to defend either?)

If he had said we are now in a position to start paying transfer fees then that might have cleared those misconceptions up but then he isn't again going to say that in an open forum to let other clubs know we have cash knocking around is he. 

You said you didn't expect to have 3 thirty plus strikers with poor goalscoring records in this season, I honestly didn't know what to expect as I didn't know how much money we had to fling around for transfers etc which is related to the first points. 

I guess we all have a better idea now though which you've quite rightly stated.

Not sure if this is anything to do with entitlement though which was the OPs original musing. 

Hoping for a better matchday today. 

They did day we could start paying transfer, loan and agents fees. Modest ones. Obviously modest is open to interpretation and you don't want to play your hand.

In the summer window you generally have a phase of picking up free transfers, then pay a few fees, then fill the gaps with loans. It feels like we didn't show urgency when frees were being signed in the expectation that we could pick up 2 or 3 players on fees.

Warne himself implies the goalposts have changed a little.

This is goes back to my thread of a few weeks ago. Is this seasons budget bugger than last season's? People who doubted it then were labelled impatient, now its obvious the budget is the same or less, we are told we are entitled by the same people.

 

[sage]

17 minutes ago, Andrew1 said:

I think that they have been some overreactions for me.  It is clear that Warne’s Forays into the Market for a striker has been frustrating.  It’s not like he doesn’t know what’s needed.

Does he know what's needed?

The CFs we tried to sign and failed (that we know about) are Sharp, Rhodes and Smith. All slow or very slow.

 

[May Contain Nuts]

17 minutes ago, Andrew1 said:

I was at the Blackpool game.  Chalk and cheese between the first and second halves, he tried something in the first half, and it was just disastrous, either because his ideas were wrong or the players didn’t understand what he wanted.  But rather in a game like that then when it really counts.

If the Blackpool first and second halves would have been the same flavour and the result the same I do’t think the criticism would have been quite as harsh.

That all a bit 'If my aunty had b*******' though.

The second half performance only happened because of the first half performance.

After the first half Blackpool were, if you'll excuse the expression, on the beach. They treated the second half like it was an extension of their pre-season and still we couldn't muster up enough to get us back in the game.