Is Warne living on borrowed time?

[Ewe Ram]

9 hours ago, Malty said:

Ed did nothing wrong. Warne made a mistake. He should be a man about it, say he’s apologised to the player and get on with it. Certainly not hold it against the interviewer as you have alluded.

I hold it against the interviewer in this case, he’s not my favourite sports journo, I actually don’t like him or his style. 

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, brady1993 said:

...The weird thing is I do think eventually he'd be able to achieve promotion but I don't think that's the be all and all. I think we should be thinking more about how continually develop long term. How do we hit the ground running in the Championship? How do we develop? How do we start mounting a push for promotion to the premiership? 

These questions might seem premature but use the time correctly now and it will set us properly for that. Focus purely on promotion and we will flounder. And that's my main issue with Warne, I don't think he's setting us up for long term success and I don't think he's the person to guide us up through those stages as this level is likely around his limit.

The argument would have merit if he looked like he'd be a sure bet on fast promotion but most evidence doesn't point to that being true. Last season was below par. The close season has been not great and the start leaves a lot to be desired.

Yes it's starting to look that way. I think that the opinion when he came in might have been, 'well he can get any old squad promoted from league 1 he's already done it 3 times'. But maybe Rotherham's squad were already set up for a managerial change ala Mac1 from Clough Jnr and that was all it needed. Whereas we as a Club and the squad needed (not necessarily wanted) a complete 'culture' change and we weren't setting up for that.

So I'll now not be surprised if we just manage top6 and the lottery therein. There is no way this squad has yet been fully 'Rotherham'ed'! And so it's too early to consider whether we'd struggle in the Championship.

Edited August 15, 2023 by RoyMac5

[duncanjwitham]

7 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Well us for one under billy .. took me about 3 seconds to think of that one lol

luton town …. 5 seconds lol

want me to go on ? 
 

no were not an organised, cohesive unit yet but that might be because our newly assembled squad has had 3 competitive games to gel lol

Warne teams are literally nothing like Billy Davies teams 🤷‍♂️.  Certainly the first half of the Davies season, it was very much a defensive 6 (back 4 with Seth Johnson and Matt Oakley sat in front), and the front 4 go and score the goals.  We opened up a bit when we signed a bunch of players in January, but it was still a very structured, regimented team.  Warne's teams basically have everybody trying to contribute to every phase of the game.  You'd never see anything like the Cashin overlapping runs, or Korey Smith scoring inside the 6 yard box in a Davies team.  And likewise, you'd never see the gaping holes in the backline and midfield that those things sometimes result in.

We aren't ever going to be an organised, cohesive unit because we aren't trying to be.  We're trying to make the game fast, chaotic and disorganised, because we think that will let our supposedly better fitness give us the edge. 

[MadAmster]

1 hour ago, CBRammette said:

Thing I dont understand from here and rumour mill thread is why is Warne seemingly getting all if the negative comments about blowing "his" budget on what we will already have? Unless dcfc is run differently to every other business and he has miraculously gained his accountancy exams (in which case congrats Paul) he will not be monitoring the budget or how much he has spent already or negotiating/signing off the player purchases or sales. I am not moaning at DC for the budget being low or lower than expected either - as no accident that PW was appointed who is used to operating on a low budget. But there are other people at the club in charge of such things and so not fair to place any blame for that on PW (if there is blame to be attached that is)

As I understand it, PW passed a list of targets on to the "recruitment team". They then do the contacts with club and player. Pearce does the financial side of things on fees, wages, bonuses. PW talks to the player about how great PP and MF is. About the squad. About the plans he has. About how he wants the team to play. About how the player, like the rest of the squad, won't have a guaranteed start. PW doesn't talk money. That is why I'm convinced it's all kidology on his behalf.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

As I understand it, PW passed a list of targets on to the "recruitment team". They then do the contacts with club and player. Pearce does the financial side of things on fees, wages, bonuses. PW talks to the player about how great PP and MF is. About the squad. About the plans he has. About how he wants the team to play. About how the player, like the rest of the squad, won't have a guaranteed start. PW doesn't talk money. That is why I'm convinced it's all kidology on his behalf.

PW won’t be involved in the financial negotiations but he will know, assuming any targets and their agents tell the truth, if the player was interested in coming to Derby but the deal failed to materialise because of financial reasons.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, MadAmster said:

As I understand it, PW passed a list of targets on to the "recruitment team". They then do the contacts with club and player. Pearce does the financial side of things on fees, wages, bonuses. PW talks to the player about how great PP and MF is. About the squad. About the plans he has. About how he wants the team to play. About how the player, like the rest of the squad, won't have a guaranteed start. PW doesn't talk money. That is why I'm convinced it's all kidology on his behalf.

PW doesn't 'talk money', but he'll certainly inform the the finance/recruitment team which players it is he'd most like them to prioritise the signing of and there will be an ongoing conversation about the targets - which ones are asking for more money than we expected, longer deals etc, which clubs are saying no until they bring someone else in, etc.

He'll be aware of it all, the little 'insights' into the transfer dealings we get from him in interviews aren't coming from his conversations with the players. Same for many managers these days I would guess.

You can't assume that Warne simply passed on a list of players/targets, I'd think it's more likely he has a list of positions and characteristics but not necessarily individual players and then the recruitment team give him a list of names to fit the criteria, from which Warne selects his preferred targets.  Maybe it's a mix of both with one or two specific names mentioned by the manager, we don't know, but the point is that it's a collaborative effort.

However if a manager then insists that he really wants a certain target and isn't keen on (or refuses to consider) the alternatives offered up (I'm not accusing Warne of this, it's pure conjecture) then the finance guys will go away and try to get something done, even if it means they have to stretch a bit to reach that players demands. If doing so means you later can't reach the demands of a different target, then who's 'fault' is it? 

(The answer is of course that attributing blame from the outside isn't wise because it depends on too many unknowns)

Edited August 15, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Eddie]

[sage]

3 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Thing I dont understand from here and rumour mill thread is why is Warne seemingly getting all if the negative comments about blowing "his" budget on what we will already have? Unless dcfc is run differently to every other business and he has miraculously gained his accountancy exams (in which case congrats Paul) he will not be monitoring the budget or how much he has spent already or negotiating/signing off the player purchases or sales. I am not moaning at DC for the budget being low or lower than expected either - as no accident that PW was appointed who is used to operating on a low budget. But there are other people at the club in charge of such things and so not fair to place any blame for that on PW (if there is blame to be attached that is)

He will know the budget. He would have known it at the start of the window. It's not his sole responsibility if he knows he money for two 4k a week players now, he would have known pre Waghorn he could afford three £4k a week players and so on and so on. 

There was also a a period without a head of recruitment, maybe a eye was taken off the ball there. 

[May Contain Nuts]

In our specific case I think we've needed to stretch our budget further because we're recruiting for the 3/5 at the back, so needed 2x WB & 2x CB as a minimum, with all of those players coming in as first choice and so taking up wages at the higher end of the budget. Forsyth can cover LWB, but we needed cover for RWB.

Starters in: Bradley, Nelson, Elder, Ward.
Cover In: Wilson

I don't expect Ward & Wilson are on particularly large wages but we'll be paying Ward more than a top six rival offered him and Wilson's last contract was at a Championship club.

If we'd stuck to a back 4, then we've already got a perfectly good starting LB & LCB at the club (Forsyth & Cashin) but would need a  cover for them and a starting RCB & RB.

Starters in: Bradley or Nelson, 1st choice RB
Cover in: LB, LCB, RCB

Same number of signings, but but fewer from the top shelf and more money to allocate elsewhere.

I don't think we will, but If we end up using Forsyth as first choice in any of the defensive positions for the majority of the season then essentially we'll have wasted a large chunk of our budget.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Guest]

4 hours ago, brady1993 said:

I think this is flawed thinking though.

The weird thing is I do think eventually he'd be able to achieve promotion but I don't think that's the be all and all. I think we should be thinking more about how continually develop long term. How do we hit the ground running in the Championship? How do we develop? How do we start mounting a push for promotion to the premiership? 

These questions might seem premature but use the time correctly now and it will set us properly for that. Focus purely on promotion and we will flounder. And that's my main issue with Warne, I don't think he's setting us up for long term success and I don't think he's the person to guide us up through those stages as this level is likely around his limit.

The argument would have merit if he looked like he'd be a sure bet on fast promotion but most evidence doesn't point to that being true. Last season was below par. The close season has been not great and the start leaves a lot to be desired.

I think what you say would be very valid if we were operating under normal conditions but we are not. Brian Clough and Arthur Cox built their promotion teams to get them out of the divisions they were in but also were able to attract players who they knew could hold their places in the division above. If Warne has the ability to do that, which is an unknown at the present, he does not have the budget to do it this season. It seems clear that at the moment he cannot bring in players who would be guaranteed to establish us in the Championship next season as well as getting us up. So he is recruiting simply with the aim of promotion. If he achieves that he has put in place the first of our building blocks. Next season's recruitment would then see him trying to place the second block; improving the quality sufficiently to avoid a relegation fight, followed by further progress the season after.

I cannot see at the moment how he can do it any other way. At the outset, David Clowes was clear that there was no unconditional demand for instant promotion and that we were at the start of a gradual rebuild. We have to be patient. Everyone of us seemed to agree with that 12 months ago, but some fans are becoming impatient. Sheffield Wednesday had to go through similar trials and their fans are now worried that their team will not be good enough to keep them up this season.

[TomTom92]

Heard Warne has been seen around the training ground dressed as a mole. I believe he's on burrowed time.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Heard Warne has been seen around the training ground dressed as a mole. I believe he's on burrowed time.

Beat it Tom Tom

[tomsdubs]

He should be on borrowed time with all the money he hasn't spent. No excuses with the fees we've dropped over the summer.

 

 

[Reggie Greenwood]

25 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

He should be on borrowed time with all the money he hasn't spent. No excuses with the fees we've dropped over the summer.

 

 

Presume those fees went to pay off what we owed for Jozwiak 

[Mucker1884]

5 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Thing I dont understand from here and rumour mill thread is why is Warne seemingly getting all if the negative comments about blowing "his" budget on what we will already have? Unless dcfc is run differently to every other business and he has miraculously gained his accountancy exams (in which case congrats Paul) he will not be monitoring the budget or how much he has spent already or negotiating/signing off the player purchases or sales. I am not moaning at DC for the budget being low or lower than expected either - as no accident that PW was appointed who is used to operating on a low budget. But there are other people at the club in charge of such things and so not fair to place any blame for that on PW (if there is blame to be attached that is)

Can I just say... as great as you are on here as CBRammette... I'd like to see how you perform as AMRammette, or even a full on CFRammette.
I reckon the latter would add a decent return on the number of posts you make over a season!

👀
 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Thing I dont understand from here and rumour mill thread is why is Warne seemingly getting all if the negative comments about blowing "his" budget on what we will already have? Unless dcfc is run differently to every other business and he has miraculously gained his accountancy exams (in which case congrats Paul) he will not be monitoring the budget or how much he has spent already or negotiating/signing off the player purchases or sales. I am not moaning at DC for the budget being low or lower than expected either - as no accident that PW was appointed who is used to operating on a low budget. But there are other people at the club in charge of such things and so not fair to place any blame for that on PW (if there is blame to be attached that is)

You don't think he was told what our budget was at the start of the summer to put towards new signings?

At the very least, he'd have a vague idea of what each of his targets would want before discussions tool place, then he'd confirm if he's happy with the fees involved once agreements are in place, and then he'll know they revised budget once the signing is complete.

He wouldn't identify the need for 10 new players, sign 8 of them, then realise there's no money left for the last 2.

[YouRams]

2 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Presume those fees went to pay off what we owed for Jozwiak 

Something has happened between him saying we're after another 2/3, to now we don't have the budget for anyone. Can't see how the blame is lying with PW for that. Either an unexpected bill like this has come up, someone above him has messed the numbers up or it's kidology to get fees down.

 

[Caerphilly Ram]

14 minutes ago, YouRams said:

Something has happened between him saying we're after another 2/3, to now we don't have the budget for anyone. Can't see how the blame is lying with PW for that. Either an unexpected bill like this has come up, someone above him has messed the numbers up or it's kidology to get fees down.

 

That’s factually inaccurate. Warne said in quotes published by the DET yesterday that they’re still actively looking to sign a midfielder and striker. Matt Hamshaw said at the end of the pre-match interview he’s expecting us to make further additions before the transfer window closes.

There may be a bit of kidology as you suggest, maybe a tempering of expectations, but I still think we’ll add a couple more to the squad before the window closes in a couple of weeks.

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

That’s factually inaccurate. Warne said in quotes published by the DET yesterday that they’re still actively looking to sign a midfielder and striker. Matt Hamshaw said at the end of the pre-match interview he’s expecting us to make further additions before the transfer window closes.

There may be a bit of kidology as you suggest, maybe a tempering of expectations, but I still think we’ll add a couple more to the squad before the window closes in a couple of weeks.

I'm sure I'm remembering it as (along the lines of) he has a budget but a lot of it is taken up by the existing squad 's wages, so they can't offer what others might be offering when they go in for targets.

But that might have been a podcast discussion rather than warne.

Either way the "good budget" comment earlier in the summer has really not set the fan base at ease the way I think it was supposed to.

[Premier ram]

It’s ok having a budget but the right players have got to be available for the right fee/wage, I think up to now the market is stagnant, teams higher up the pyramid are reluctant to let any players go until they have replacements in place this coupled with the now bloated subs bench it is more and more difficult to get players in, the coaching staff have said on numerous occasions that any player bought in has to improve us , these players are going to cost fees or big wages