V Shrewsbury Town (H) 4th March 15.00

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

If we apply some context LCR I think your conclusion that the reality is Derby are flat track bullies under Paul Warne is skewed in favour of you supporting an argument against Paul Warne being the right manager for Derby County. Where a team finishes in Division One at the end of a season depends upon how many points the team wins in its 46 games against the other 23 clubs and the number of points gained against teams in the top or bottom halves of the table has never been a deciding factor to differentiate whether one team or another will be promoted.

Under Leroy Rosenior Derby took 14 points from 9 games (1.6 pts per game). Five of Leroy's games were against top half teams - four at home. Under Warne they have so far taken 47 points from 25 games (1.9 pts per game).

Sheffield Wednesday have taken 50 points from 18 games against lower-half teams and 24 points from 15 games against top-half teams.

Plymouth; 34 pts from 17 games against LH and 37 pts from 17 games against TH.

Ipswich; 44 pts from 19 games against LH and 22 pts from 15 games against TH.

Bolton; 37 pts from 18 games against LH and 26 pts from 18 games against TH.

Barnsley; 39 pts from 17 games against LH and 21 pts from 15 games against TH.

Derby; 42 pts from 18 games against LH and 19 pts from 17 games against TH.

So, from the top six teams, to my mind only Plymouth really stand out in terms of the equilibrium they have achieved in terms of the distribution of their points accumulated against teams in the top and bottom halves of the table. I have no doubt that their fans will be critical that they have not picked up more points against the lower teams. But there is nothing unusual in the fact that the other five teams, including Derby, have fared better against lower opposition.

As for bullies, I seem to recall that a lot of our fans were critical in that 5 of our 6 defeats, we allowed the opposition to bully us physically - against Plymouth, Lincoln, Port Vale, Wycombe and Barnsley. When Warne has the opportunity to recruit players of his own choice, he will probably be looking to ensure that is more unlikely to happen in the future.

At the end of the day we are where we are, the table does not lie and we don't get bonus points for beating teams in the top half.

 

 

You are of course correct that 3 points against Forest Green is the same as 3 points against Sheff Wednesday. The point was not where we would finish - I think we all agree we have a top 6 side on paper & are likely to finish there come May -  my post was in response to a comment whether those of us not convinced by Warne had justification to still have reservations about him given his record to date.

Once that record is split down by league position of those we have beaten (and there is no getting away from those numbers - it is objective fact rather than opinion), Warne's record looks more like a competent job rather than the job some are suggesting should convert any previous Warne sceptics. Furthermore, the record against top half teams does not suggest someone over-performing in his role - quite the opposite. This is being played down by those in favour of Warne but 9 points garnered in 10 games v top half opposition is not impressive, whichever way it is spun.

Clearly we differ on our opinion on the manager but like I said earlier, my impression will always be based on what he's delivering - if he takes us up, brilliant & he will deserve all the credit that comes his way.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I said earlier, my impression will always be based on what he's delivering - if he takes us up, brilliant & he will deserve all the credit that comes his way.

I think the first time to really start judging him is over 12 months away, one way or another. If he takes us up this season, as you say brilliant; he will have done it with players not of his choosing. But then he will come under further scrutiny as to stabilising us in the Championship. If we don't go up this season, I will look forward to the changes he is able to make to the squad in the summer. There will then be more justified pressure on us to be promoted than there is now. By next season he will have in place people he has now recruited in the off-field roles. The rebuilding of the academy is important and in that respect we already seem to be seeing the first green shoots of recovery in the U18 team. We need that next in the U21 side. This is not just about one man. It is about the whole club re-establishing itself. It is not a short-term project and same patience should be afforded in my view.

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

You are of course correct that 3 points against Forest Green is the same as 3 points against Sheff Wednesday. The point was not where we would finish - I think we all agree we have a top 6 side on paper & are likely to finish there come May -  my post was in response to a comment whether those of us not convinced by Warne had justification to still have reservations about him given his record to date.

Once that record is split down by league position of those we have beaten (and there is no getting away from those numbers - it is objective fact rather than opinion), Warne's record looks more like a competent job rather than the job some are suggesting should convert any previous Warne sceptics. Furthermore, the record against top half teams does not suggest someone over-performing in his role - quite the opposite. This is being played down by those in favour of Warne but 9 points garnered in 10 games v top half opposition is not impressive, whichever way it is spun.

Clearly we differ on our opinion on the manager but like I said earlier, my impression will always be based on what he's delivering - if he takes us up, brilliant & he will deserve all the credit that comes his way.

That's very magnanimous of you to concede that.

Anyway bitchy comment aside which is beneath me so apologies, I've realised this afternoon why I haven't been on this forum for weeks now - same usual suspects propagating the same stock line whether it be our current manager, victimisation by the EFL, deliberate bias of referees against us rinse and repeat. That cohort probably includes myself truth be known.

The banality is utterly depressing for me.

Hopefully we'll be in a higher division this time next season, if not we've still got a club anyway so won't matter an iota whether you agree with me or not or you quote stats to back up whatever point you're trying to make. 

Upwards on onwards 

 

[Minneapolis Town Tractor]

Yesterday must have been a real bummer for Rams fans.   OK it favors us and say Bolton also but they'll be no gloating from this end.  This league is tough - for want of better words - it's a real nasty division to get out of, maybe like ourselves you thought it'd be easy and we'd make it back at a first attempt.   You know, big club names that were successful in the 1970s and got League Championships to their name.    Unfortunately It doesn't quite work like that.    

I understand the hurt of scores like yesterday, nothing disingenuous, teams like Derby County or indeed Bolton / ITFC don't really deserve or seem out of place to be in this s*** league but it's been a mess of our own making.      Make no mistake it's tough to make it back, don't take it the wrong way or anything but suppose Derby don't get a promotion this year, it could take maybe another 2 or 3 seasons - maybe more - to achieve it. That's the reality.

That's not a criticism, just from someone who knows what a task it can be - or is - to escape League One status and make it back to Championship level.      You got Plymouth Argyles in your next game if correct, guess a number of our own fans shall be rooting for you as we got to take any and all points Plymouth may drop in the final weeks run-in.     It's the only way other club names will get an opportunity.

In all probability Town and Rams won't get an automatic promotion, I'd like to avoid you in a play-off situation, our record is beyond lousy and I think a two-game event would favor yourselves as past experience dictates we just won't make it.

I see Davey McGoldrick is scoring plenty for you.    He didn't do much for us in that capacity although spent a lot of time on the injury roster.    He's become almost a new player of what some can remember.     I wish you well in team endeavors for the Plymouth game.  

 

[walkleyowl]

4 minutes ago, Minneapolis American ITFC said:

Yesterday must have been a real bummer for Rams fans.   OK it favors us and say Bolton also but they'll be no gloating from this end.  This league is tough - for want of better words - it's a real nasty division to get out of, maybe like ourselves you thought it'd be easy and we'd make it back at a first attempt.   You know, big club names that were successful in the 1970s and got League Championships to their name.    Unfortunately It doesn't quite work like that.    

I understand the hurt of scores like yesterday, nothing disingenuous, teams like Derby County or indeed Bolton / ITFC don't really deserve or seem out of place to be in this s*** league but it's been a mess of our own making.      Make no mistake it's tough to make it back, don't take it the wrong way or anything but suppose Derby don't get a promotion this year, it could take maybe another 2 or 3 seasons - maybe more - to achieve it. That's the reality.

That's not a criticism, just from someone who knows what a task it can be - or is - to escape League One status and make it back to Championship level.      You got Plymouth Argyles in your next game if correct, guess a number of our own fans shall be rooting for you as we got to take any and all points Plymouth may drop in the final weeks run-in.     It's the only way other club names will get an opportunity.

In all probability Town and Rams won't get an automatic promotion, I'd like to avoid you in a play-off situation, our record is beyond lousy and I think a two-game event would favor yourselves as past experience dictates we just won't make it.

I see Davey McGoldrick is scoring plenty for you.    He didn't do much for us in that capacity although spent a lot of time on the injury roster.    He's become almost a new player of what some can remember.     I wish you well in team endeavors for the Plymouth game.  

 

Has to be a parody

 

[Sparkle]

35 minutes ago, Minneapolis American ITFC said:

Yesterday must have been a real bummer for Rams fans.   OK it favors us and say Bolton also but they'll be no gloating from this end.  This league is tough - for want of better words - it's a real nasty division to get out of, maybe like ourselves you thought it'd be easy and we'd make it back at a first attempt.   You know, big club names that were successful in the 1970s and got League Championships to their name.    Unfortunately It doesn't quite work like that.    

I understand the hurt of scores like yesterday, nothing disingenuous, teams like Derby County or indeed Bolton / ITFC don't really deserve or seem out of place to be in this s*** league but it's been a mess of our own making.      Make no mistake it's tough to make it back, don't take it the wrong way or anything but suppose Derby don't get a promotion this year, it could take maybe another 2 or 3 seasons - maybe more - to achieve it. That's the reality.

That's not a criticism, just from someone who knows what a task it can be - or is - to escape League One status and make it back to Championship level.      You got Plymouth Argyles in your next game if correct, guess a number of our own fans shall be rooting for you as we got to take any and all points Plymouth may drop in the final weeks run-in.     It's the only way other club names will get an opportunity.

In all probability Town and Rams won't get an automatic promotion, I'd like to avoid you in a play-off situation, our record is beyond lousy and I think a two-game event would favor yourselves as past experience dictates we just won't make it.

I see Davey McGoldrick is scoring plenty for you.    He didn't do much for us in that capacity although spent a lot of time on the injury roster.    He's become almost a new player of what some can remember.     I wish you well in team endeavors for the Plymouth game.  

 

Of course we think everything is easy - no full time manager until October - 5 players under contract a week before we kicked off - not allowed to pay transfer fees - not allowed to pay agent fees - not allowed to give contracts over two years long - not allowed to give higher wages under a imposed business plan - no player between the age of 22-29 due to the above and most sold to survive. Playing players out of position due to big gaps in the squad - yes we all thought this season would be easy ? actually yesterday’s game against Shrewsbury was a decent one to watch - if it helps we haven’t seen a good side this season which is why some sides collect regular wins because it’s hard not to win if you actually play football. Yes we have been in the third division before and yes we know what is needed to get out of the league via promotion and we have a serious chance of doing just that with our rag tag band of senior professionals who were without a club and a few untried youngsters. You probably should be more concerned about the amount of money spent and the contracts some of your own are sat on within the large squad you have assembled.

yes McGoldrick doing ok for a 35 year old centre forward and we have similar in Collins a journeyman centre forward as his only cover.

If it helps we actually have no concerns at all but we are all very well tuned in to our situation which clearly you are not. 

[kevinhectoring]

8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

When referred to as a club which cheats, that will inevitably sit in the back of a person's mind. This WILL impact the decisions a ref makes during a game.

Very questionable assertions. The refs all know they should be unbiased, regardless of crowd pressure, player reputation etc.  They also all know that if they are seen to be unbiased they get promoted. 

[Crewton]

5 hours ago, Premier ram said:

My seat is in the North Stand , clearest penalty for me yesterday was the handball near the end of the game by a Shrews defender , the look on his face afterwards was of sheer relief when pen wasnt given , how the officials missed it i will never know

 

                                                 maybe close to the reason

I saw that too, right in line from East Stand. It definitely hit lower arm, but I couldn't honestly say if it was in an unnatural position. 

[CBRammette]

Are there now more fans of other clubs on here than DCFC fans? 

[OssieEnd]

14 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Are there now more fans of other clubs on here than DCFC fans? 

No !  xx 

[kevinhectoring]

13 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

You are of course correct that 3 points against Forest Green is the same as 3 points against Sheff Wednesday. 

3 points vs Wendies = 6 (for us, 2 for Plymouth and Ipswich)

1 point vs Shrewsbury (H) = -2

3 points vs Wycombe = 600

[David Graham Brown]

19 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

We don't have a grassy knoll at Pride Park. That would be at the old Baseball Ground pitch! 

Sans grass?

[Srg]

Very disappointing on Saturday. Thought going forward was really good first half. Shrewsbury gave us the wide areas and we used them really well, without constantly hoisting crosses into their big centre backs. 

Thought Cashin and Forsyth were pretty horrendous. Cashin couldn't win a header all game and constantly got outmuscled by their striker who was no bigger than he was - a very rare sight for him. Forsyth was really indecisive, the decision to pull their man back and let go before then bringing him down closer to goal for their first goal was really dumb.

It's easy to blame the referee. Thought the penalty was very very soft, but it was more his general performance. It was really hard to relieve pressure when we couldn't get a decision going forward and they got every one going the other way. Just meant all momentum we tried to build was given back to them. In fact, Cashin's head injury was the time where we actually managed to reset and the game was more even after that. We could've been cuter to try buy ourselves time earlier in the half, but we are bit naive compared to most teams. With all that said, we were still nowhere near good enough second half, and we were pretty weak mentally.

Definitely 3 points dropped, despite that second half. Their first goal changed the entire game, and even with that, we still could've and should've won it at the end.

[Wolfie20]

4 minutes ago, Srg said:

 

Definitely 3 points dropped, despite that second half. Their first goal changed the entire game, and even with that, we still could've and should've won it at the end.

Sh*** - we lost then?

[angieram]

8 minutes ago, Srg said:

Very disappointing on Saturday. Thought going forward was really good first half. Shrewsbury gave us the wide areas and we used them really well, without constantly hoisting crosses into their big centre backs. 

Thought Cashin and Forsyth were pretty horrendous. Cashin couldn't win a header all game and constantly got outmuscled by their striker who was no bigger than he was - a very rare sight for him. Forsyth was really indecisive, the decision to pull their man back and let go before then bringing him down closer to goal for their first goal was really dumb.

It's easy to blame the referee. Thought the penalty was very very soft, but it was more his general performance. It was really hard to relieve pressure when we couldn't get a decision going forward and they got every one going the other way. Just meant all momentum we tried to build was given back to them. In fact, Cashin's head injury was the time where we actually managed to reset and the game was more even after that. We could've been cuter to try buy ourselves time earlier in the half, but we are bit naive compared to most teams. With all that said, we were still nowhere near good enough second half, and we were pretty weak mentally.

Definitely 3 points dropped, despite that second half. Their first goal changed the entire game, and even with that, we still could've and should've won it at the end.

Did we lose? I missed that!

[Foreveram]

8 minutes ago, angieram said:

Did we lose? I missed that!

Yeah it’s all over twitter apparently ?‍♂️ # FT EFL

[PistoldPete]

19 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

If we apply some context LCR I think your conclusion that the reality is Derby are flat track bullies under Paul Warne is skewed in favour of you supporting an argument against Paul Warne being the right manager for Derby County. Where a team finishes in Division One at the end of a season depends upon how many points the team wins in its 46 games against the other 23 clubs and the number of points gained against teams in the top or bottom halves of the table has never been a deciding factor to differentiate whether one team or another will be promoted.

Under Leroy Rosenior Derby took 14 points from 9 games (1.6 pts per game). Five of Leroy's games were against top half teams - four at home. Under Warne they have so far taken 47 points from 25 games (1.9 pts per game).

Sheffield Wednesday have taken 50 points from 18 games against lower-half teams and 24 points from 15 games against top-half teams.

Plymouth; 34 pts from 17 games against LH and 37 pts from 17 games against TH.

Ipswich; 44 pts from 19 games against LH and 22 pts from 15 games against TH.

Bolton; 37 pts from 18 games against LH and 26 pts from 18 games against TH.

Barnsley; 39 pts from 17 games against LH and 21 pts from 15 games against TH.

Derby; 42 pts from 18 games against LH and 19 pts from 17 games against TH.

So, from the top six teams, to my mind only Plymouth really stand out in terms of the equilibrium they have achieved in terms of the distribution of their points accumulated against teams in the top and bottom halves of the table. I have no doubt that their fans will be critical that they have not picked up more points against the lower teams. But there is nothing unusual in the fact that the other five teams, including Derby, have fared better against lower opposition.

As for bullies, I seem to recall that a lot of our fans were critical in that 5 of our 6 defeats, we allowed the opposition to bully us physically - against Plymouth, Lincoln, Port Vale, Wycombe and Barnsley. When Warne has the opportunity to recruit players of his own choice, he will probably be looking to ensure that is more unlikely to happen in the future.

At the end of the day we are where we are, the table does not lie and we don't get bonus points for beating teams in the top half.

 

 

His name is Liam. Leroy was his Dad. You are showing your age.  

[i-Ram]

19 hours ago, Jourdan said:

As long as we finish in the top six, we have as good a chance as anyone. Most posters are saying that the time to criticise Warne is when that doesn’t happen.

Given his track record, if it does not happen this year, there is still cause to feel confident we’ll come back and give it a good go next season. 

I cant speak for most posters, only myself. If we don't go up via the playoffs my default position will not be too criticise Paul Warne. The playoffs are a lottery. I will be critical though if we reach those final 3 games and he hasnt got us sufficiently organised to give a good account of ourselves. Hopefully the last 6 games have been a February wobble, but we look hellishly unsettled/fatigued at the moment.

p.s. Next season in L1 we are unlikely to have Cashin, Knight or Bird. Perhaps Sibley neither. They will be picked off by other clubs, and replaced by bulked up athletes more suited to Warne's footballing approach.

[Jimbo Ram]

36 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I cant speak for most posters, only myself. If we don't go up via the playoffs my default position will not be too criticise Paul Warne. The playoffs are a lottery. I will be critical though if we reach those final 3 games and he hasnt got us sufficiently organised to give a good account of ourselves. Hopefully the last 6 games have been a February wobble, but we look hellishly unsettled/fatigued at the moment.

p.s. Next season in L1 we are unlikely to have Cashin, Knight or Bird. Perhaps Sibley neither. They will be picked off by other clubs, and replaced by bulked up athletes more suited to Warne's footballing approach.

I agree that next season our squad could be potentially weaker than now.

[PistoldPete]

32 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

I agree that next season our squad could be potentially weaker than now.

I don’t know .. obviously we are showing how much we miss Max Bird. Him and Knight would be a big loss. But their wages are also high for League one so we could strengthen the squad in areas like defence… which has tended to be exposed against the better teams.