Paul Warne appointed as Head Coach

[ramsbottom]

17 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

 
I used hyperbolic language at times to describe the job he’s done mainly because it was bank holiday with a few beers but an honest assessment for me is that his season has been around 6/10. 

To put that into context I would have given Lampard a 6/10 and Rooney a 9/10. 

Agreed with you right up to this bit.  I'm not sure how you can rate the underachievement of Frank The Fraud with Warne's as the same is a little crazy considering Fwank was given a stupid amount of money for signings and was gifted (by conservative estimates) £150m worth of loan talent.  Taking that into account I'd rate his season as 4/10 at best.

As for this season, there's been ups & downs for sure.  Looking back the bad run we had after January was the real nail in the coffin, but I always like a manager who can work their way through crap times to find a solution and he did.  I for one have really enjoyed the season as it's the first where my lad has really got into it.  He's about to turn 14 and is in full on 'Kevin Mode' so any activity that allows us to talk normally is precious to me.  And now direct debit payments are back for season tickets, I'll be purchasing for both of us.  If one was so inclined they could go back through my old posts and see I said around January that I'd be massively disappointed if we didn't make the play offs, and I am, but considering where we were 12 months ago, any appearance in them would've been a bonus.  And I'm confident that as soon as he's licked his wounds and dusted himself down, Warne will bring us back stronger.

Now I'm off to make a voodoo doll of Marvin Johnson.  The diving little Bamford!!!

[IlsonDerby]

23 minutes ago, jameso said:

Here as elsewhere there's a lot I agree with in your comment and these aren't your most important points, but I'd have to say White is not a replacement Bird: going forward perhaps, and White with the edge on set plays - not that it showed yesterday - but Bird is a much better defensive player than White on the evidence of this season, and in response to your comment "so when [Bird's] injury happened we could have just tried to go along with [White in for Bird]" I would say we tried it - Hourihane and White - and as I recall at Barnsley they went through our midfield something like a hot knife through warm butter!

Also there was definitely a patch in which Cashin's radar (and judgement) was off, but to suggest he is just toe punting the ball as hard as he can seems a little ungenerous to his accuracy and ability.

I think writing that combination off because it got spanked at a time when Barnsley were rolling teams over and tickling their bellies for fun is harsh though. 

[IlsonDerby]

2 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Agreed with you right up to this bit.  I'm not sure how you can rate the underachievement of Frank The Fraud with Warne's as the same is a little crazy considering Fwank was given a stupid amount of money for signings and was gifted (by conservative estimates) £150m worth of loan talent.  Taking that into account I'd rate his season as 4/10 at best.

As for this season, there's been ups & downs for sure.  Looking back the bad run we had after January was the real nail in the coffin, but I always like a manager who can work their way through crap times to find a solution and he did.  I for one have really enjoyed the season as it's the first where my lad has really got into it.  He's about to turn 14 and is in full on 'Kevin Mode' so any activity that allows us to talk normally is precious to me.  And now direct debit payments are back for season tickets, I'll be purchasing for both of us.  If one was so inclined they could go back through my old posts and see I said around January that I'd be massively disappointed if we didn't make the play offs, and I am, but considering where we were 12 months ago, any appearance in them would've been a bonus.  And I'm confident that as soon as he's licked his wounds and dusted himself down, Warne will bring us back stronger.

Now I'm off to make a voodoo doll of Marvin Johnson.  The diving little Bamford!!!

I’m trying to judge him on how I felt at the time rather than hindsight. At the time we didn’t know he had 2 England internationals in our side. Also for his sins he did get us to a play off final. I felt we failed that season because of the money spent and we didn’t go up despite the best loans in the division. However we were 1 goal or 90 minutes away from that season being a success… 

 

The same kind of applies to Warne. 1 game away from the season being a ‘success’. Had we drawn yesterday which I think we were completely on course for doing then I think Warne hits ‘par’ for the season and I’d give him a 7. 
 

 

[Mick Brolly]

10 hours ago, Jubbs said:

With the strength of the rest of the league and the players we have, we should have comfortably been top 6.

What position 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

I think writing that combination off because it got spanked at a time when Barnsley were rolling teams over and tickling their bellies for fun is harsh though. 

I can't prove of course that Bird-Hourihane on that day would have done better, and granted Barnsley were slap bang in the middle of the purplest of purple patches when they annihilated us, but every time they came forward they were fast-tracked to our last line of defence. My strong feeling is that Bird would have given us more defensively, whereas White gave us very little in that department... but it all comes down to opinions at the end of the day!

[FlyBritishMidland]

My view is we need to stick with PW for the long term, even if we miss out next year.  Chopping and changing got us in this mess and we’re still in the process of a complete rebuild.

My expectation at the start of the season was 7 - 10th but I didn’t expect to be this close to the play offs.  Partly because not many teams, regardless of how big, go straight back up and lots of examples have been given.  I also thought we were in a similar position to the last time we were at this level, arguably worse.  In both cases we’ve needed a completely new squad, and that takes time to gel.

Both LR and PW did a good job.  LR to get players to come, particularly late in the window and the financial restrictions.  We can bemoan the lack of a right back, quality of striker but he probably thought he had Nathan Byrne (who would have been a good RWB) and quality strikers for free are very rare.  PW did well to get them as close as he did, given the age profile and size of the squad.  I think the blip in Feb/Mar would have happened if it was LR, PW or, heaven forbid, any of us as manager.  Other teams were able to spend in Jan, we couldn’t and free’s them are free for a reason.  I think someone said Sheff Wed used 14 more players, like it or not that makes a difference.

And it’s not just about the first team.  We’ve had to rebuild behind the scenes, e.g. head of recruitment, and that will continue, particularly the academy.  Lets be patient, give PW the time he needs to build for the long term.

[Caerphilly Ram]

15 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Both LR and PW did a good job.  LR to get players to come, particularly late in the window and the financial restrictions.  We can bemoan the lack of a right back, quality of striker but he probably thought he had Nathan Byrne (who would have been a good RWB) and quality strikers for free are very rare.  

This point in isolation. Byrne deserves some strong unpleasantries for how he left the club, however if I shelve that for a moment, what a difference his wing back play would have made for both LR and PW’s teams this season! What could have been eh? The jumped up little so and so 😤 

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

I’d like Warne to be successful and I think he’s a decent person.

We can debate formations and players all day long but I think the difference between us being in the playoffs or not is this “always try to win” mentality.

How many goals have we conceded on the counter attack?

if you are top 2 material then Klopp style all out attack works but, if you are merely a top third-ish of the table outfit, the occasional point on the road, by shutting up shop at better teams, comes in handy at the end of season.

 

[On the Ram Page]

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

I’ve always been in the camp of giving managers time and a fair crack of the whip. I was disappointed when Liam wasn’t given the job, I was initially angry when Warne was given it as I lazily stereotyped him as a long ball merchant who can only manage small clubs. Then looking into the guy and listening to some of those podcasts, I felt he deserved a chance at this as I think there is much more to him than the lazy stereotype. 

I’ve only been to 7 away games in all comps this season, 6 under Warne so I’m not the best judge but from those games plus the home games I’ve seen, yes we’re more direct than under Liam but I haven’t seen this long ball style some people are still hammering Warne with. I think our best performances (not necessarily results as I include Shrewsbury MK and Portsmouth in this) we’ve had a nice blend of playing through midfield and going front to back quickly. Also, there is nothing wrong with long ball if it’s targeted, the Ipswich first goal at Pride Park is the best goal I’ve seen this season. It’s the aimless long ball stuff that is frustrating and to be honest I haven’t seen much of it. But I appreciate those who have been to more away games may have a different view.

In terms of assessing Warne, this season he was always going to get a pass and to be fair he’s done ok. We will never know how Liam would have done but to be honest I don’t think he would have fared any better. We’ve narrowly missed out on playoffs, we’ve finished behind Plymouth who were able to be more active in transfer window and have built a squad over 2 years, Ipswich whose wage budget is double ours and they spent best part of £10m on players (let that sink in a moment), Sheff W again built over 2 seasons and bigger budget than us, Barnsley who had a very successful January and came down with us, Bolton who were able to be more active in transfers than us and again have built under the same manager, and Posh who finished above us in the championship don’t forget last season and came down with largely the same team, and were able to go and sign another lower league gem or two - something we can’t do because of restrictions. Yes we could’ve finished 5th or 6th but that realistically was our best hope with hindsight and we weren’t too far off, it was also a genuine playoff push we finished comfortably ahead of mid table. Warne has IMO achieved the minimum expectation for this season and so has done ok, no more than that. In Derby’s history it’s the joint lowest finish ever, that context is important we should be doing a lot better as a club but we know where we were a year ago, we could have been way off this season potentially but with a cobbled together squad we’re not far away. 
 

Next season Warne will rightly be held to a different standard. We’re close now, we have a full summer of recruitment ahead which we’ve not had the luxury of for a couple of seasons. Yes we have restrictions but he should be able to put together his squad and mount a serious promotion campaign next season. If we don’t get promoted next season then questions will need to be asked and I think 1.75 seasons is a sufficient period of time to judge.

Excellent summary - hope he has a bit of money to spend though - here’s hoping. I am not sure anyone yet knows his “style of play” - looking forward to seeing next season when he has his team. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

3 minutes ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

I’d like Warne to be successful and I think he’s a decent person.

We can debate formations and players all day long but I think the difference between us being in the playoffs or not is this “always try to win” mentality.

How many goals have we conceded on the counter attack?

if you are top 2 material then Klopp style all out attack works but, if you are merely a top third-ish of the table outfit, the occasional point on the road, by shutting up shop at better teams, comes in handy at the end of season.

 

I’ve said a couple of times I think this is Warne’s approach. He fancies himself more as a league one Klopp than a league one Pep, that’s based on my observations rather than any personal insight to Warne. I think he’s set us up a number of times to blow teams away early doors with his fast, direct (not long ball) approach, if we’d been able to take the chances it would have worked. The limitations had then appeared to be when that’s failed and the opposition adapt we couldn’t adjust. However the recent run of games and performances have shown a change in his approach that I think does show there’s a bit more tactical nous than I was perhaps giving him credit for. 
Accepting we’re at this level for at least another season I’m excited for the prospect (and know it’s not guaranteed) of Warne shaping the squad to play along the lines of how we ended the season with the intent to blow teams away game after game, it’s got the potential to be an exciting season (as much as it could also be dross).

[MarsdenRam]

Happy Birthday Gaffer

[BramcoteRam84]

23 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

My view is we need to stick with PW for the long term, even if we miss out next year.  Chopping and changing got us in this mess and we’re still in the process of a complete rebuild.

I think DC is of a similar mindset so he may well give him another season if we miss out next year. In the fans eyes though it would be a hard sell. I think a lot will depend on how the season goes. If we improve by 2 points and either miss out on the playoffs or limp into them and lose in the semis then I think his position would be untenable. If we do a Wednesday and end up missing out then I think to get rid of him would be harsh. The other consideration is how are we moving forward as a club with the playing style etc and is he the right man to spend Clowes/DCFCFANS generated transfer funds when that time comes next summer. 

[Andicis]

2 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Somebody has already posted to say that the we got less points against the teams Rosenioir managed us for, under Warne. It’s not a perfect measure but it is somewhat relevant. There’s no bad faith - he came in to do a job. He came in to give us that bit extra and ultimately he oversaw a run of form that was god awful. 

We played damn well against wednesday in the first half you’re right. I have posted on here saying I was hoping Barnsley would do us a favour as after watching the first half today I fancied us against Weds in the play offs. But we’ve also had games where Bristol played us off the park. And don’t rewrite the past - they did. There has been a hell of a lot of criticism over what our play has looked like from many corners of this forum. If we take the last 6 games in isolation then yeah I’m fairly upbeat about what can be achieved next season but it seems daft to ignore the shower that happened before Easter.

It is bad faith. A lot of the teams we played under Rosenior at the time were in worse form (such as Barnsley for example) at the beginning of the season and hadn't really gotten going. Football teams can be pretty streaky with form, and whilst they might be good over a season, form at the point of the fixture is actually really relevant to assessing results. What you posted was about the final positions of teams that we played 6 games in. That's posting in bad faith. 

I don't think we've been perfect, there have been games we've not played well. My position has always been that until Warne is given the ability to recruit, I think it's unfair to be too critical, he made the core of the squad solid, but ultimately had to deal with a squad that didn't synergise all that well. I think he has laid the groundwork that with his own additions, we will look a good side. And if we don't, and 20 games in we're struggling, I'll agree with you he's doing a poor job. But he needs the chance to add players to his squad.

[JJs dms]

I'm sure this has been pointed out before but Arthur Cox didn't get us out of this division at the first time of asking and then only by the skin of our teeth the following season. Look what happened then. Okay some will say footballs changed since then but it hasn't changed that much lets have a bit of patience let Warne get on with the job and see were that leads us.

[scout's dad]

We dust ourselves off and move on. A big player summer clear out beckons.

Let Warne get the players he knows will do the job and get us promotion.

COYR🐏🐏🐏

[Loughborough Ram]

I think the 'style' issue is a difficult one because a lot of football fans have been brainwashed into thinking that unless you have 50 passes through the lines, starting with the goalkeeper then you play ugly football.

This argument has been strengthened by the dogged insistence that stats and possession data should dictate the future of football. Its a strange one because somebody like Brian Clough who hated hoofball, never played out from the back, however he was considered a manager who played good football.

Anybody who watched our game yesterday couldn't describe us as a long ball team. We largely played the ball on the floor and as far as I'm concerned, if we do that quickly, we have more chance of catching the opposition out of position.

Warnes style will be defined next season when he has the players he wants, but I'd say that the signs so far are promising that we will play a fast, pressing, attacking style of football.

[Barney1991]

2 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

It boils down to which part of the season was most defining for us in your opinion. 
 

The 19 game unbeaten run at times felt like we were steam rolling sides on our way up but at other times we were very fortunate (Vale away etc). When the football was good it was a mixture of playing it around the ground quickly and going direct with purpose and at times was brilliant to watch. 
 

The run where we could barely buy a win felt like he’d taken any team instructions from the good run and said ‘do none of that, Cash just keep toe punting the ball upfield as hard as you can. You too Foz’ which I didn’t understand. White might not be exactly the same as Bird but you had a player who was almost as comfortable as bird in possession so when his injury happened we could have just tried to go along with that. 
 

Then it felt like we’d stumbled across a hybrid of a system that he wanted to play mixed with a system that we could fit our team into and I feel this was the first time he’d shown some real high end skill in his management as he finally adapted what he wanted to fit the players at our disposal. I guess it came probably a game of two too late. 
 

If I focus on the last 6 games (well the last 5 and the first 40 mins of yesterday) then I can see why people are optimistic about next season but it isn’t right to try and ridicule anyone who suggests Warne has fallen short of his own targets particularly when it was such an alarming run of form that curtailed his own expectations rather than a few key losses here and there. 
 

Clowes is patient and we’ll go again next season and I’m really looking forward to next season. I’ve enjoyed league one (refs not so much), I’ve enjoyed the papa johns, I’ve loved seeing so many away fans come to our ground because we’re one of the ‘bigger’ clubs here. 
 

As ever I’m excited for the summer. Who do we bring in? Who will we retain? Which youngsters might be around the first team during pre season? The buzz in pre season knowing we’re building a team without worrying about going into admin. 
 

I used hyperbolic language at times to describe the job he’s done mainly because it was bank holiday with a few beers but an honest assessment for me is that his season has been around 6/10. 

To put that into context I would have given Lampard a 6/10 and Rooney a 9/10. 

On the 19 game unbeaten run all players were fit fresh and turned up week in week out. We scored at will with everyone playing out of there skin. 
 

unfortunately the players have either only been able to play at that pace for either half the game or like previous games the first 25 minutes. 
 

too many have been below par the last part of the season like Mendez Laing, sibley, knight hasn’t looked the same and apart from mcgoldrick no one else apart from Collins looks like scoring. Mj dons and Portsmouth we should have been 3 nil up at half time if not 6. 
 

we need to rectify the back line with some aggression I think we look soft tbh and the pace at the back has killed us later part of the season and we don’t look commanding. 
 

we look pathetic at scoring from set pieces which I hope we rectify next season to add more goals because every time we get a free kick or corner it’s like what is the point most of the time. Like yesterday In the 92nd minute we get a free kick in a dangerous area and we put it out for a goal kick. Corners were dreadful. We need to look at a few cb,s to hopefully chip in with 4 to 5 goals a piece hopefully. 
 

the new system looks a dream tbh and it’s a shame we didn’t stumble on it 10 to 15 games ago with the 2 numbers 10’s. If that’s the way we go next season with the players identified I think it will prove a good system. 
 

all in all it’s been a great season and i can’t wait for next season 

[Tyler Durden]

12 hours ago, Loughborough Ram said:

This subject is far too black and white on this forum, there is seemingly no middle ground, you're either a Warne man or you're not and both sides are so entrenched that nothing will fill the void between them.

Not sure, at this point, what anybody gets out of this discussion

The debate is running along the same lines as the protagonists whom believe that the EFL have instructed all referees to give contentious decisions against us etc which to be fair has died down a huge amount save the usual hardcore of posters whom won't be swayed by reason or fact.

Which is pretty much where we are with the Paul Warne debate, the anti Warne brigade has now become whittled down to a hardcore of posters whom regardless of reason or fact or logic still cling onto their mantra.

To answer your question what do they get out of this? Would be fairer to ask them.

[Oldben]

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/jeff-stelling-issues-verdict-on-paul-warnes-derby-county-future-after-play-off-disappointment/

Sky Sports presenter Jeff Stelling has urged Derby County to stick with Paul Warne after missing out on the League One play-offs.

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

It is bad faith. A lot of the teams we played under Rosenior at the time were in worse form (such as Barnsley for example) at the beginning of the season and hadn't really gotten going. Football teams can be pretty streaky with form, and whilst they might be good over a season, form at the point of the fixture is actually really relevant to assessing results. What you posted was about the final positions of teams that we played 6 games in. That's posting in bad faith. 

...likewise it must also be posting in bad faith to discredit or downplay those victories by applying those arguments only to our opposition.

We beat those teams when we ourselves hadn't 'really gotten going' and were, owing to our own circumstances, at an automatic disadvantage. No matter the oppositon's state of readiness or form at the time they were all ahead of us in some regard.

Many of Warne's points gained this season were achieved during a 'streaky spell' during which time the squad had reached the peak of its fitness for the season, so all being equal you'd have to apply the same balances for and against those results. 

Over the course of a season it's safe to assume that the teams who finished lower down the table were prone to having more bad runs of form than good runs of form - you're more likely to face them during a bad run than a good run - so I can see why a teams position at the end of the season is used.

It may be a bit lazy and not all that accurate but nobody has time to factor all of this in and do a full analysis of form game by game.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss