This Papa Johns Guff

[Stuniverse]

16 hours ago, Rampant said:

I know there are rules about having to pick so many players involved in the previous and/or next match but I hope the club just pay the £5k fine if necessary and pick whoever they want. 

I had no idea what rules you were referring to… so I asked Google:

7 PLAYERS

7.1  In all rounds of the Competition a Player must be a “Registered Player” of his Club. 7.2 For the EFL Clubs, a Registered Player is one who:

 7.2.1  would be registered and eligible to participate in a match in the League Competition for that EFL Club commencing at the same time and on the same date as the Match in accordance with the provisions of the Regulations or would have been but for the operation of Regulation 44.9 (Squad Lists) (as amended from time to time); or

 7.2.2  would be so eligible but for the fact that they are registered on a Long Term Loan at a club playing in the National League (National Division, North Division or South Division) but by the agreement of the Club, the National League club and the Player he has permission to return to play in this Competition.

7.3  Each EFL Club shall play its Full Available Strength in and during all Matches.

Guidance

‘Full Available Strength’ means the EFL Club must include at least four Qualifying Players in the ten outfield Players named in the starting eleven on the Team Sheet.

7.4  Qualifying Player means any Player who:

 7.4.1  had started the immediately preceding First Team Fixture (as defined below);

 7.4.2  subsequently starts the immediately following First Team Fixture;

 7.4.3  is in the list of ten Players at the Club with the highest number of starting appearances in First Team Fixtures in the same Season;

 7.4.4  has made forty or more starting appearances in First Team Fixtures or international equivalents (and not limited to the same Club or Season); or

 7.4.5  is on standard loan from a Premier League Club or any EFL Club operating a Category One Academy.

7.5  First Team Fixture means the League Competition, Premier League, EFL Cup or FA Challenge Cup (but shall, in the context of Rules 7.4.3 and 7.4.4 only, also include this Competition).

7.6  Any EFL Club failing to meet the requirement to play Full Available Strength will be required to pay a fine of up to £5,000.

[Stuniverse]

5 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

So, do we waste a @Ghost of Cloughmatch thread on this or is this the de facto thread?

From @Shuff264's fantastic investigation of the rules I'd suggest he's missed Fozzy and we should pick our 4 as:

Fozzy (to skipper the side)

Dobbin (to try to get a goal)

Collins (to try to get a goal)

Smith (for fitness)

Loach

Oduroh    Rooney     Forsyth (c)     Grewal-Pollard

Smith     Thompson

Dobbin    Aghatise     Nunn

Collins

If Collins needs a rest then Dobbin up top and Bird in as the fourth man.

Aghatise is injured.

[Stuniverse]

4 hours ago, samtheram83 said:

A bit of topic but didn’t we get to the final of the Anglo Italian cup and lose vs cremonese?

For some reason I loved the Anglo Italian cup. 

Yes we did. I was at Wembley for the final against Cremonese (who are back in Serie A, I notice).

[GenBr]

7 hours ago, Foreveram said:

The prize money is higher than the league cup.

Much higher. Every team will get at least something for playing in it. You'd have to get to the semi finals to win anything at all in the league cup.

[rammieib]

13 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Much higher. Every team will get at least something for playing in it. You'd have to get to the semi finals to win anything at all in the league cup.

Not sure why they changed it from last season? But crap really.

[Foreveram]

Wondering why there is no tickets on sale for the Man City under 21 game yet when the league game after it has been on sale for a while. Two weeks from today.

[WestStandStartTheBounce]

For me it is a pointless trophy, even for the teams lower down. It's insulting to have to play under 21 teams. 

Why don't they scrap the EFL trophy and the EFL cup (Premier league teams don't really give a toss about this one). Make one tournament that only the championship and below play and include the national league teams.

[TaahnRam]

48 minutes ago, WestStandStartTheBounce said:

For me it is a pointless trophy, even for the teams lower down. It's insulting to have to play under 21 teams. 

Why don't they scrap the EFL trophy and the EFL cup (Premier league teams don't really give a toss about this one). Make one tournament that only the championship and below play and include the national league teams.

Completely agree that the U21 involvement devalues it and should be scrapped. However, I disagree that it's pointless, a great opportunity for L1/L2 teams to have a bit of success. I live in Chesterfield who have won one and made a final in the last 10 years or so. Prior to that, they hadn't been at Wembley since the early 90s. I'd kick out the U21s and change the format to L1 & L2 only, 48 teams in 16 groups, two games each. Group winners into the last 16 straight knockout. 5 games to Wembley instead of the 7 (I think) it is now. 

[uttoxram75]

6 hours ago, WestStandStartTheBounce said:

For me it is a pointless trophy, even for the teams lower down. It's insulting to have to play under 21 teams. 

Why don't they scrap the EFL trophy and the EFL cup (Premier league teams don't really give a toss about this one). Make one tournament that only the championship and below play and include the national league teams.

Its designed to give the rich clubs a competitive game for their huge young squads. The ultimate aim would be for them to have "B" teams playing in the lower leagues.

Everything is engineered to make the gap bigger.

[Nishfan]

19 hours ago, Foreveram said:

Wondering why there is no tickets on sale for the Man City under 21 game yet when the league game after it has been on sale for a while. Two weeks from today.

I’m the same & even called the ticket office yesterday, but they still didn’t know when they’ll be on sale.

I only caught part of something on Radio Derby about the possibility of rearranging matches due to the International break - so could it be because of that? 

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

19 hours ago, WestStandStartTheBounce said:

For me it is a pointless trophy, even for the teams lower down. It's insulting to have to play under 21 teams. 

Why don't they scrap the EFL trophy and the EFL cup (Premier league teams don't really give a toss about this one). Make one tournament that only the championship and below play and include the national league teams.

Why are the EPL teams even invited to play in EFL competitions anyway.
I thought they we different organisations now!?!?

When rules around FFP have been broken by clubs eg: Bournemouth, QPR etc etc whilst in the EFL that club is then subsequently promoted to the EPL the said club is then untouchable until they re-enter the EFL.

[Tamworthram]

22 minutes ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Why are the EPL teams even invited to play in EFL competitions anyway.
I thought they we different organisations now!?!?

When rules around FFP have been broken by clubs eg: Bournemouth, QPR etc etc whilst in the EFL that club is then subsequently promoted to the EPL the said club is then untouchable until they re-enter the EFL.

Absolutely agree. It’s not even as if they add a touch of glamour as they’re not allowed to play their stars even if they wanted to. If it’s purely to make the numbers right then I’d rather teams from the National League were invited. They’ve got more in common with the other teams in the competition that the PL under 21’s.

[WestStandStartTheBounce]

1 hour ago, Nishfan said:

I’m the same & even called the ticket office yesterday, but they still didn’t know when they’ll be on sale.

I only caught part of something on Radio Derby about the possibility of rearranging matches due to the International break - so could it be because of that? 

That would be so funny, cancelling a papa johns trophy match for an international break. I'm sure Man City have plenty of other players that could fill in. Just shows what a joke the U21 thing is and its supposed purpose of helping develop English talent.

[WestStandStartTheBounce]

14 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its designed to give the rich clubs a competitive game for their huge young squads. The ultimate aim would be for them to have "B" teams playing in the lower leagues.

Everything is engineered to make the gap bigger.

The only thing of importance is the premier league, don't you know. All us other teams are just there for their benefit. We have no value in our own right. It stinks doesn't it. Sky/Money has screwed up our football league system.

[therealhantsram]

14 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its designed to give the rich clubs a competitive game for their huge young squads. The ultimate aim would be for them to have "B" teams playing in the lower leagues.

Everything is engineered to make the gap bigger.

And to be fair, we entered our U-23 team in it one year too. 

[Tamworthram]

1 minute ago, therealhantsram said:

And to be fair, we entered our U-23 team in it one year too. 

Doesn’t make it right though and we shouldn’t have been invited.

[therealhantsram]

21 hours ago, WestStandStartTheBounce said:

Why don't they scrap the EFL trophy and the EFL cup (Premier league teams don't really give a toss about this one). Make one tournament that only the championship and below play and include the national league teams.

While I see the attraction of your idea, the problem is that the money (ie. sponsors and big attendances) only comes when the big EPL teams are involved. 

Where you are right is that there should be some experiments to add more interest.  The main problem is that these cups have become too predictable. We need some rule changes to add the randomness back in to make it more of an event. All Championship clubs should have a realistic expectation that they could make it to the semi-finals.

Look at the way cricket has done all kinds of experiments with its one-day format as an example.

Just off the top of my head here are some random ideas that they could try.

* No penalties. If the game is a draw the lower placed team go through.

* Limit the age of players. Maybe an U27 competition. Or U25 competition.

* Give lower league teams get a one-goal start against higher opposition.

Sure there are loads of other experiments people could come up with. 

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Best thing we can do is field a strong team and smash them 6-0

[Guest]

2 hours ago, therealhantsram said:

While I see the attraction of your idea, the problem is that the money (ie. sponsors and big attendances) only comes when the big EPL teams are involved. 

Where you are right is that there should be some experiments to add more interest.  The main problem is that these cups have become too predictable. We need some rule changes to add the randomness back in to make it more of an event. All Championship clubs should have a realistic expectation that they could make it to the semi-finals.

Look at the way cricket has done all kinds of experiments with its one-day format as an example.

Just off the top of my head here are some random ideas that they could try.

* No penalties. If the game is a draw the lower placed team go through.

* Limit the age of players. Maybe an U27 competition. Or U25 competition.

* Give lower league teams get a one-goal start against higher opposition.

Sure there are loads of other experiments people could come up with. 

 

You could maybe limit the number of players over a certain age (the pizza cup is meaningless to many, but still useful for getting recovering senior players back up to speed after injury).

Interesting idea about the draw being a win for the lower team... but if we've seen teams sit in against us this season already, this could only add to the popularity of that strategy. You could argue that it's down to the better team to break them down (fair enough) but at least at the moment if a team has no attacking ambition they can still lose on penalties! Also watching park-the-bus footy has never really appealed to me.

Has cricket's innovations given the weaker team a better chance? Or just made it more of a spectacle?

For a bonkers suggestion favouring the lower placed team, how about the lower placed manager gets to select one player from each team to leave the field of play every 10 minutes from 50+ minutes onwards, unless that team is already winning? (I did say it was bonkers, but would level the playing field and increase the chances of a goal in terms of available space and for the lower team.) 

Perhaps the more novelty tweaks that are done though, the less credibility the competition has?

 

[Carl Sagan]

On 06/09/2022 at 11:49, Foreveram said:

Wondering why there is no tickets on sale for the Man City under 21 game yet when the league game after it has been on sale for a while. Two weeks from today.

It's a good question. I've asked the Ticket Office when they will go on sale.