Wayne Rooney

[mwram1973]

On 01/06/2024 at 12:22, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Personal grudge against him?

We played awful football under him,we were relegated and he then cleared off as soon as were.

He also embarrassed the club at the worst possible time....and as far as I'm.l aware,he's a grown up,not a 18 year kid straight off a housing estate.

Great footballers are not always great coaches or managers and Rooney's record,here in the states and at Birmingham is an illustration of that.

The original question was about Plymouth taking him in as manager...do you honestly believe he's going to be a success given his managerial history?

 

 

He didn't get us relegated, Mel Morris got us relegated and nearly put us out of business. Without those deductions he won enough points to see us comfortably in 17th, and that was with no budget and no money to even spend on equipment needed, which he paid for himself.

To answer your question, yes, given time i think he'll do ok at plymouth. Out of the 3 jobs he's had, Derby, he didn't stand a chance with a 21 point deduction, Birmingham, he couldn't buy or loan players but made the mistake of trying to get those lumps to play football (God forbid eh?).

[Carl Sagan]

On 01/06/2024 at 19:10, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I like him, but it's hard to argue that his lifestyle didn't hold him back. He was done at the top level by 28. I'm sure that was partly due to playing a lot of games at a young age and having a unique physique, but I'm in no doubt he would have stayed at the top for longer if he lived like James Milner. And his last few performances for Derby were hard to defend.

That being said, in his prime, he was an animal who gave it everything. You only have to listen to Gary Neville talk about him to know what he was like as a player and team mate. And he may well turn out to be one of the last ever true street footballers.

He's right in saying that Harry Kane has a better England legacy though.

I'd say done at the top level by 25. Such a terrible waste. I suppose the light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

21 hours ago, Crewton said:

The first part is utter nonsense (were you even there?!?), the second part was due to Administration and the 12 points deduction (we'd have survived with just the 9 point deduction) and the last part was (in my view) doing the decent thing after hitching his wagon to Kirschner.

 

I absolutely was!

I doubt Plymouth will finish the season with him in charge.

Edited June 3 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[Crewton]

1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I absolutely was...it was poor.

Well, it'll be interesting to see how much support you get for that assertion.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

Well, it'll be interesting to see how much support you get for that assertion.

From who 🤣

[Crewton]

34 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

From who 🤣

From posters who know what they're on about.

[Crewton]

The football Rooney and Rosenior managed to have the team playing, and some of the results achieved, under the circumstances of having a squad comprising mainly youth players and veterans, was remarkable.

I'll go as far as saying that if we'd been allowed to extend Jagielka's contract, we'd have stayed up. Whether Rooney would have stayed on in that event is questionable, as is whether he would have been any kind of success had he continued, but dissing what he did that season is utterly churlish.

 

[Anon]

What Rooney achieved under difficult circumstances in the relegation season is admirable. I do dispute the narrative that he had nothing to work with. Plenty of our players that season walk into other lower half Championship teams. It was really only in the striker department where the squad was comfortably below the level required.

Anyone want to talk about his first season in charge at Derby? I'd argue it's a much more accurate representation of his ability than the extreme circumstances of the 2nd, which he is unlikely to ever face again. He nearly relegated a team that was easily mid table in terms of ability. I appreciate he inherited a poor start from Cocu, but Rooney had 35 games. His points per game extrapolated over the season would've been good enough for a 20th place finish. He played awful football and took us on one of the worst runs of results in our history. If it weren't for Marlon Pack's equaliser against Rotherham, we'd have gone down.

So many people still have stars in their eyes when it comes to Rooney. So many people queuing up to make excuses for his objectively poor managerial record. He is afforded more leeway than most managers because of his celebrity status and his incredible achievements as a player. I don't care about that. I'm a Derby fan, not a Man United fan. I only care about what Rooney did as manager of this club, and the truth is that he was pretty bad.

Edited June 3 by Anon

[Crewton]

8 hours ago, Anon said:

If it weren't for Marlon Pack's equaliser against Rotherham, we'd have gone down.

If you're going to play that game I might as well join in.

If Bielek and Davies hadn't picked up season-ending injuries half way through the season, we'd have easily stayed up.

If Lee Gregory hadn't been unavailable through injury for 9 of the last 11 games, we'd have easily stayed up.

If we'd had half-competent officials all season we'd have easily stayed up.

If we hadn't had a transfer embargo imposed on us in the January window restricting our signings to loans that didn't require a loan fee or wages more than £4,200 a week, we might well have been able to sign better players to help us move away from the bottom of the table.

And that isn't even an exhaustive list.

Sure, in the final round of games, fate smiled on us, despite Wycombe managing a highly suspicious 3-0 win at Boro, but without the above instances of misfortune, we'd have secured safety much earlier.

I doubt anyone is saying that Rooney performed miracles, or even that he was anything more than average in that season, but there were allot more factors at play than his management. 

I don't see anyone star-struck by Rooney either, but I guess that's just your way of trying to diminish the value of what others have said.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

21 hours ago, Crewton said:

From posters who know what they're on about.

I may be waiting a while then.....

Edited June 4 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[Anon]

14 hours ago, Crewton said:

If you're going to play that game I might as well join in.

If Bielek and Davies hadn't picked up season-ending injuries half way through the season, we'd have easily stayed up.

If Lee Gregory hadn't been unavailable through injury for 9 of the last 11 games, we'd have easily stayed up.

If we'd had half-competent officials all season we'd have easily stayed up.

If we hadn't had a transfer embargo imposed on us in the January window restricting our signings to loans that didn't require a loan fee or wages more than £4,200 a week, we might well have been able to sign better players to help us move away from the bottom of the table.

And that isn't even an exhaustive list.

Sure, in the final round of games, fate smiled on us, despite Wycombe managing a highly suspicious 3-0 win at Boro, but without the above instances of misfortune, we'd have secured safety much earlier.

I doubt anyone is saying that Rooney performed miracles, or even that he was anything more than average in that season, but there were allot more factors at play than his management. 

I don't see anyone star-struck by Rooney either, but I guess that's just your way of trying to diminish the value of what others have said.

Excuses and more excuses. The reason I lean into the star struck theory is that I have no other way of understanding how people incessantly run cover for Rooney. Of course no other Championship teams had any injuries to contend with that season. Of course all the referees were biased against us. Of course Middlesbrough deliberately lost to Wycombe. It isn't ringing any alarm bells that you have to resort to conspiracy theories to defend Rooney's managerial record?

What about his completely useless spell at Birmingham? Does that not cause you to reassess your opinion of Rooney's managerial ability or was that also someone else's fault?

[Crewton]

39 minutes ago, Anon said:

Excuses and more excuses. The reason I lean into the star struck theory is that I have no other way of understanding how people incessantly run cover for Rooney. Of course no other Championship teams had any injuries to contend with that season. Of course all the referees were biased against us. Of course Middlesbrough deliberately lost to Wycombe. It isn't ringing any alarm bells that you have to resort to conspiracy theories to defend Rooney's managerial record?

What about his completely useless spell at Birmingham? Does that not cause you to reassess your opinion of Rooney's managerial ability or was that also someone else's fault?

I've not said a word about Rooney's record in management anywhere else but Derby.

It was you that started the "IF---->THEN" game.

I didn't say that referees were biased against us - I inferred some of them were incompetent, but if you don't believe that we were on the receiving end of an inordinate number of poor decisions across BOTH of those seasons, I suggest you do some more research using this very forum and old match reports.

Neither did I say that no other teams had injuries, but other teams had deeper, more balanced squads to cover for those injuries, and I doubt that any other team lost players of the quality of Bielek and Davies for more than half the season, or had to struggle through most of the season with one veteran striker.

As far as the Boro/Wycombe game goes, a strong Boro side put in an abject CBA performance of the kind that has people checking the betting patterns. It's no more fanciful than ignoring other factors and using a result that didn't happen to argue that the manager was a failure.

I presume though that if Rosenior gets all of the credit for the performances in 21/22, then he must get all of the blame for performances in 20/21? No, of course he doesn't. they were very much a team and the faults and successes were theirs as a team.

Like you, I don't care what Rooney has done before or since his time at Derby, I'm just giving a personal opinion on his time here as manager, which I think is more nuanced than simply "he was useless".

[Anon]

23 hours ago, Crewton said:

I've not said a word about Rooney's record in management anywhere else but Derby.

Like you, I don't care what Rooney has done before or since his time at Derby, I'm just giving a personal opinion on his time here as manager, which I think is more nuanced than simply "he was useless".

I should've been more specific with what I said. I don't care about his record as a player. I absolutely do care about his managerial record for the following reason. All the main pro Rooney arguments are based upon the adverse conditions he was dealing with at Derby. The Birmingham job was a chance to see how he would fare without points deductions or takeover rumours as a distraction. With his players being paid on time and taking over with the team in 6th instead of 24th. As we all saw, that Birmingham stint didn't exactly lend any credence to the idea that Rooney would've been a successful manager here if only the circumstances had been better.

I don't think Rooney was useless, just not very good and vastly overrated by most Derby fans. He was definitely better than Phil Brown.

[Plym12]

Hi

A Plymouth Argyle fan here. Obviously Wayne Rooney is our new manager and I wondered what your thoughts are about him from his time as Derby manager?

If you don't mind giving your thoughts I will then post on an Argyle fans website to give other Argyle fans an insight into Rooney as a Derby manager, if that's ok?

Thanks.

 

Q1.
What style of football did Wayne Rooney play?
Q2.
What formation did he play?
Q3.
What are your own thoughts on Wayne Rooney as a manager?
Q4.
What can Argyle fans expect?

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Plym12 said:

Q1.
What style of football did Wayne Rooney play?
Q2.
What formation did he play?
Q3.
What are your own thoughts on Wayne Rooney as a manager?
Q4.
What can Argyle fans expect?

I’ll jump to question 3, my thoughts are that Rooney took over during a difficult time in the clubs history. He helped create a fighting spirit within the club when the EFL were gunning for us.

Many would have walked a lot sooner, but he stood by us and gave us belief.

I’m not bitter that he chose to leave in the summer following relegation, he poured everything into the club and I can see why he wanted a fresh start.

Absolutely no grudges held and will only ever be thankful for his efforts here and wish him the best going forward.

The one thing you can expect is Morgan Whittaker to leave. If there is one person in Plymouth that won’t be happy with the appointment it will be him.

I would also expect Wayne to receive a warm reception when he returns to Pride Park.

[Ram-Alf]

36 minutes ago, Plym12 said:

Hi

A Plymouth Argyle fan here. Obviously Wayne Rooney is our new manager and I wondered what your thoughts are about him from his time as Derby manager?

If you don't mind giving your thoughts I will then post on an Argyle fans website to give other Argyle fans an insight into Rooney as a Derby manager, if that's ok?

Thanks.

 

Q1.
What style of football did Wayne Rooney play?
Q2.
What formation did he play?
Q3.
What are your own thoughts on Wayne Rooney as a manager?
Q4.
What can Argyle fans expect?

1. A lot on here believe that Liam Rosenior was the man that set out our tactics...including myself, Rooney was the figure head and the one that made it "them against us"

2. As we lost a good proportion of the games we defended quite a bit  so 8-1-1 😁

3. My thoughts are that he put his hand in his pocket to pay for travel, Hotel expenses and equipment, He was genuine in his efforts and gave it all he could...no complaints from me

4. I believe for you to be better than last season Rooney needs a coach/assistant that has experience and one that will be the go between for players and Rooney, Players may not see him all the time at training, I hope for your sakes his...off field drinks parties are over...but I doubt it

[DarkFruitsRam7]

On 03/06/2024 at 02:51, Anon said:

What Rooney achieved under difficult circumstances in the relegation season is admirable. I do dispute the narrative that he had nothing to work with. Plenty of our players that season walk into other lower half Championship teams. It was really only in the striker department where the squad was comfortably below the level required.

Anyone want to talk about his first season in charge at Derby? I'd argue it's a much more accurate representation of his ability than the extreme circumstances of the 2nd, which he is unlikely to ever face again. He nearly relegated a team that was easily mid table in terms of ability. I appreciate he inherited a poor start from Cocu, but Rooney had 35 games. His points per game extrapolated over the season would've been good enough for a 20th place finish. He played awful football and took us on one of the worst runs of results in our history. If it weren't for Marlon Pack's equaliser against Rotherham, we'd have gone down.

So many people still have stars in their eyes when it comes to Rooney. So many people queuing up to make excuses for his objectively poor managerial record. He is afforded more leeway than most managers because of his celebrity status and his incredible achievements as a player. I don't care about that. I'm a Derby fan, not a Man United fan. I only care about what Rooney did as manager of this club, and the truth is that he was pretty bad.

Tbf, the squad in his fist season was absolutely dross. Some seriously average players in that team. But it was terrible and we were kept up by Bielik playing well for a few games more than anything.

I do agree that he gets far more leeway from some because of his name though. His managerial track record is pretty poor.

[Millenniumram]

Oh, the irony Wayne

 

[jono]

On 03/06/2024 at 09:51, Anon said:

What Rooney achieved under difficult circumstances in the relegation season is admirable. I do dispute the narrative that he had nothing to work with. Plenty of our players that season walk into other lower half Championship teams. It was really only in the striker department where the squad was comfortably below the level required.

Anyone want to talk about his first season in charge at Derby? I'd argue it's a much more accurate representation of his ability than the extreme circumstances of the 2nd, which he is unlikely to ever face again. He nearly relegated a team that was easily mid table in terms of ability. I appreciate he inherited a poor start from Cocu, but Rooney had 35 games. His points per game extrapolated over the season would've been good enough for a 20th place finish. He played awful football and took us on one of the worst runs of results in our history. If it weren't for Marlon Pack's equaliser against Rotherham, we'd have gone down.

So many people still have stars in their eyes when it comes to Rooney. So many people queuing up to make excuses for his objectively poor managerial record. He is afforded more leeway than most managers because of his celebrity status and his incredible achievements as a player. I don't care about that. I'm a Derby fan, not a Man United fan. I only care about what Rooney did as manager of this club, and the truth is that he was pretty bad.

I have no stars in my eyes. Rooney wasn’t a great “manager” if you judge things on the basis of video game statistical analysis. I don’t …. nor did the 25,000 that turned up every fortnight backing him and the team with more noise and support than I have ever heard at PP .  He lead the club in a crisis and showed a single minded dedication to the task. He got all the players and every single fan on the same side regardless of any action on the pitch. The boy did a good job. The final paragraph of your post isn’t just  “pretty bad”, it’s fundamentally lacking in spirit, truth and understanding of what leadership means. He played a huge part in keeping the everyday life of the club together. That’s what he did for the club and it’s more than points per game.