The Ukraine War

[Stive Pesley]

I see the rumours are that Putin has hired the Wagner Group to assassinate Zelenskyy 

This is one of them

A real shame - because he was an excellent referee back in the day 

[Rev]

14 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I see the rumours are that Putin has hired the Wagner Group to assassinate Zelenskyy 

This is one of them

A real shame - because he was an excellent referee back in the day 

He looks different from his X Factor days.

 

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

As someone else very wisely said earlier in this thread, the first casualty of war is the truth.

100% agree, in war there is no truth.

[BaaLocks]

3 hours ago, Mick Brolly said:

News from the rest of the world as I'm hearing it.

More innocent men women and children are being killed by the Russian army

Putin is a evil dictator who doesn’t care about anyone else 

Almost 1.5 million people have been forced to leave behind everything they ever had

Russia controls and censors its media to stop the truth being told to its own people 

Putin says his neighbours need not worry despite invading one

  Not for discussion it is what it is. 

 

Ah, you're a spokesman for the whole planet now are you? Well, congratulations on the appointment.

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

 

Blimey, that'll be it then. Thx - the whole thing laid out for us all to see by some minor journalist. A guy who, as late as just eight hours ago said "U.S. has NOT seen indications of Belarus preparing to deploy troops to Ukraine". Well f*&K me, there's a guy we need to listen to.

Edited March 5, 2022 by BaaLocks

[Leeds Ram]

15 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Not sure how popular this opinion will be, but if anything this is a perfect case study in why no nuclear power should or would seriously consider getting rid of their nuclear weapons. If Ukraine had a large arsenal of nuclear weapons at their disposal then this simply wouldn't be happening. Nuclear war is the single greatest deterrent currently available to any nation on the planet. They are the reason that NATO haven't gone in and attempted to repel this invasion themselves and they are the reason that Russia will not invade any NATO country once whatever they want to achieve in Ukraine is achieved.

Nuclear weapons have done more to keep the peace since the end of WW2 than anyone or anything else. Only by totally assuring that nobody can win a war do you avoid one, as evidenced by the current situation. Putin knows the situation well and he knows exactly how far he can push before he needs to stop.

As for what happens next? My prediction is that Ukraine as we know it will be forever changed. Russia will eventually overwhelm it and install a puppet government and pretend that Ukraine is still independent but the international community will fail to recognise. Meanwhile there will be the 'true Ukraine' based out of Lviv that Russia will consider illegitimate. Almost like a China/Taiwan scenario. 

If Russia want to properly occupy Ukraine they didn't bring enough men. This is regime change.

I think this is pretty bob on especially the last part.  In an insurgency campaign which this could turn into once the conventional war is over it is generally considered to be successful you need extremely high troop levels to have any chance of success.  One of the Americans big problems in Iraq was the fact they simply didn't have enough troops for the occupation, that was until the surge when Al-Qaeda forces were essentially flushed out of the country and a period of stability did return until the Syrian civil war. 

 In addition, regime change tends to only be tenable if you've got at least some sectional support from the populace to help govern the country, keep the country functioning etc. Putin's big miscalculation in all of this is clearly believing that there would be such support from somewhere in the country. Ukraine is not a small country that Putin can roll up and keep easily, instead he could end up trying to govern an ungovernable state as people are prepared to fight until he packs up his troops and goes home. He could face massive problems simply in administration as it's not looking like he's got massive support back home for this either. 

[Mick Brolly]

6 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Ah, you're a spokesman for the whole planet now are you? Well, congratulations on the appointment.

All facts I'm no spokesperson it's what is happening tell me 1 thing I put that isn't the truth 

[Mick Brolly]

7 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Blimey, that'll be it then. Thx - the whole thing laid out for us all to see by some minor journalist. A guy who, as late as just eight hours ago said "U.S. has NOT seen indications of Belarus preparing to deploy troops to Ukraine". Well f*&K me, there's a guy we need to listen to.

Doesn't fit your narrative mock it

[i-Ram]

10 hours ago, Ramarena said:

These guys from Sky are so lucky to escape the Russians, imagine if they had been civilians without body armour!

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/sky-news-teams-harrowing-account-of-their-violent-ambush-in-ukraine-this-week-12557585

We are so very lucky to have journalists like these, putting their lives on the line, to bring us verifiable news of what is actually happening on the ground over in the Ukraine. Sobering stuff.

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, Ramarena said:

These guys from Sky are so lucky to escape the Russians, imagine if they had been civilians without body armour!

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/sky-news-teams-harrowing-account-of-their-violent-ambush-in-ukraine-this-week-12557585

I don't think the bleeping of bad language was necessary, Whoever  could have watched that film and been shocked .. by the bad language...  is missing the point of what is truly shocking don't you think?

[Mucker1884]

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

The company I work for has offices in Russia - home to 4000 employees

I say has - I mean had.

Company just withdrew and closed all its offices with immediate effect. 4000 employees out of work just like that

 

[1of4]

To save lives, President Zelenzky as called for NATO to introduce a no fly zone over Ukraine. Unless something dramatic happens this is unlikely to happen. 

What is puzzling is the seemingly lack of action coming from the UN. We've seen them put peace keeping forces put into other war zones. Surely they can sanction putting a peace keeping force into Ukraine which could include a no fly zone.

Yes I know Russia and China, who sit on their UN security council are a major stumbling block for this to happen.  Maybe this is the perfect opportunity for every member of the UN to demand a review of how the UN is presently run, which gives to much control to a hand full of countries.

[i-Ram]

13 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

To save lives, President Zelenzky as called for NATO to introduce a no fly zone over Ukraine. Unless something dramatic happens this is unlikely to happen. 

What is puzzling is the seemingly lack of action coming from the UN. We've seen them put peace keeping forces put into other war zones. Surely they can sanction putting a peace keeping force into Ukraine which could include a no fly zone.

Yes I know Russia and China, who sit on their UN security council are a major stumbling block for this to happen.  Maybe this is the perfect opportunity for every member of the UN to demand a review of how the UN is presently run, which gives to much control to a hand full of countries.

Huh? Just checked with my daughter. She confirmed: Peace keeping, means that there is peace, and someone polices the situation to ensure peace is kept. You can’t send in peace keeping forces whilst Ukraine and Russia are still shooting at each other.

[Leeds Ram]

33 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

To save lives, President Zelenzky as called for NATO to introduce a no fly zone over Ukraine. Unless something dramatic happens this is unlikely to happen. 

What is puzzling is the seemingly lack of action coming from the UN. We've seen them put peace keeping forces put into other war zones. Surely they can sanction putting a peace keeping force into Ukraine which could include a no fly zone.

Yes I know Russia and China, who sit on their UN security council are a major stumbling block for this to happen.  Maybe this is the perfect opportunity for every member of the UN to demand a review of how the UN is presently run, which gives to much control to a hand full of countries.

Peace keeping forces are used to try and maintain a ceasefire rather than get involved in this kind of situation. I'd also add that the UN peace keeping forces have got a reputation for being pretty useless. 

[Leeds Ram]

11 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Blimey, that'll be it then. Thx - the whole thing laid out for us all to see by some minor journalist. A guy who, as late as just eight hours ago said "U.S. has NOT seen indications of Belarus preparing to deploy troops to Ukraine". Well f*&K me, there's a guy we need to listen to.

He writes for a respectable publication and was being used by reliable security analysts so yeah I think he's a reasonable person to be listening too. 

[1of4]

The Russians are now deliberately targeting innocent civilians. I wonder what spin Putin's propaganda machine will put on this. 

This must be classified as war crimes. 

[ketteringram]

38 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

The Russians are now deliberately targeting innocent civilians. I wonder what spin Putin's propaganda machine will put on this. 

This must be classified as war crimes. 

Seems clear he doesn't care what anyone calls it. He knows no one's going to do anything about it. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by ketteringram

[Highgate]

40 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

The Russians are now deliberately targeting innocent civilians. I wonder what spin Putin's propaganda machine will put on this. 

This must be classified as war crimes. 

The spin is that the Ukrainians are using civilians as human shields for their artillery. There won't be any military action that the Russians won't be able to spin via their media to the domestic audience at least.

The whole invasion is a war crime according to the Nuremberg Principles which state that;

To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.

Not that Putin will worry about this or ever be put on trial for his actions.

[Gaspode]

Has Putin actually misjudged this as badly as it appears? - I wonder if he thought he could take back Ukraine, put up with a lot of Western crisicism, a few stricter sanctions and then things would go back to normal (as they did after Crimea). I doubt he was expecting the almost universal condemnation and the damaging level of the sanctions - sanctions that are unlikely to be lifted unless he walks away from Ukraine or loses power himself. How long can Russia survive with their economy tanking before some of Putin's Kremiln colleagues start looking for a way out of the mess he's put their country in?.....

Edited March 6, 2022 by Gaspode