The Administration Thread

[i-Ram]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I said I wonder why.. I don't know at all but the people connected to Ramtrust were quite active last time we were in deep poo with the three Amigos, and  we were rescued by a Gadsby led consortium,  so maybe history will repeat itself. Or maybe not.   

Oh. You framed the post to suggest you knew something, or had a reasonable inkling, but really you knew bugger all. Bit disappointing. Anybody else got some supposition that can be shared? The vaguer the better really.

[RipleyRich]

6 minutes ago, Carnero said:

My understanding was that the bid(s) of £30m were including the stadium.

So if £20m is allocated to the stadium/MSD then that only leaves £10m to all other creditors including HMRC which is obviously well short.

The bidders point of view will be that the £30m should be allocated to the creditors and that the stadium should be thrown in for nothing, with somebody else (MM) paying off the MSD debt.

The admin/MM point of view is that the price including the stadium needs to be £50m, the price without the stadium can be £30m, but the buyers only value the club at £30m if it comes WITH the stadium.

Bridging the gap between £30m and £50m is the issue. One side, or both will need to move to bridge this gap otherwise we're stuck.

Yep 100% agree.

You explained it better than my half awake ramble!

It seems interested parties value the whole package at c£30m whereas at the moment it needs c£50m

I don`t see the creditors shifting, I don`t see the bidders shifting. Regardless of what we think, the Club has a maximum value as a "Business" and we have to detach "emotional value" from the situation, because it appears that there is no one in the frame that shares that emotion with the cash reserves to back it up.

 

[I am Ram]

Q have said somebody is delaying and trying to undermine the process, what are folks thoughts on this, I'm trying to catch up. 

[nottingram]

If only MM was such a tough negotiator when he was buying and selling players

[RammingStone66]

4 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Q have said somebody is delaying and trying to undermine the process, what are folks thoughts on this, I'm trying to catch up. 

Sounded like a shot at MA to me. It's seems to be he is just biding his time waiting for it to collapse or for people to get desperate so he can swoop in.

Him not playing ball with the timelines etc is very much his style as I worked close to him about a decade ago and he is truly ruthless. 

[Tombo]

Once again repeating this "threats of violence" myth. This is getting uglier by the day. No longer have any faith in Quantuma

[I am Ram]

3 minutes ago, RammingStone66 said:

Sounded like a shot at MA to me. It's seems to be he is just biding his time waiting for it to collapse or for people to get desperate so he can swoop in.

Him not playing ball with the timelines etc is very much his style as I worked close to him about a decade ago and he is truly ruthless. 

It was the two months no contact that made me think it wasn't MA, he can't undermine or delay without contact from Q imo 

[PistoldPete]

20 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Oh. You framed the post to suggest you knew something, or had a reasonable inkling, but really you knew bugger all. Bit disappointing. Anybody else got some supposition that can be shared? The vaguer the better really.

Well its a thread that asks people for the name of a preferred bidder which no one knows, not even Quantuma. I think I framed my post with words like "wonder" and "maybe" .. if that suggested to you I was in the know well maybe you need a new dictionary. 

[PistoldPete]

18 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Q have said somebody is delaying and trying to undermine the process, what are folks thoughts on this, I'm trying to catch up. 

My thoughts are if Quantuma has something to say , say it. If there is some bugger delaying things we need to know who that is.

[RipleyRich]

8 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

My thoughts are if Quantuma has something to say , say it. If there is some bugger delaying things we need to know who that is.

Not sure I believe that TBH

Over the last couple of months we have come to realise that Quantuma`s statements need to be taken with a pinch of salt. They are very much like the "holding email"!  Keeping contact open but having nothing to report.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

51 minutes ago, Carnero said:

My understanding was that the bid(s) of £30m were including the stadium.

So if £20m is allocated to the stadium/MSD then that only leaves £10m to all other creditors including HMRC which is obviously well short.

The bidders point of view will be that the £30m should be allocated to the creditors and that the stadium should be thrown in for nothing, with somebody else (MM) paying off the MSD debt.

The admin/MM point of view is that the price including the stadium needs to be £50m, the price without the stadium can be £30m, but the buyers only value the club at £30m if it comes WITH the stadium.

Bridging the gap between £30m and £50m is the issue. One side, or both will need to move to bridge this gap otherwise we're stuck.

Completely agree with this which is why a few days ago I suggested a deal will be struck at £40M once liquidation is imminent. 

[i-Ram]

13 minutes ago, Tombo said:

Once again repeating this "threats of violence" myth. This is getting uglier by the day. No longer have any faith in Quantuma

Tombo. Two reasonable questions to ask of you.

1) How might you get Mike Ashley or any PB for that matter to pay say £50m for something they only value at say £35m.

2) How might you persuade Mel Morris to sell the Stadium to the new owner for say £5m rather than the £20m+ he is allegedly holding out for?

If you can give me satisfactory answers to those questions, I too will lose some faith in Quantuma too. But for now, I still think Q are in an impossible position because of Morris. No one willing to pay anything much more than £30/35m, and wanting the stadium included for that, and Morris not budging for whatever his reasons are. I don't like speculation. but I think his reasons are that he doesnt want either Ashley or Appleby Group paying what he thinks at an undervalue (doing him over if you like). Morris will take this to the wall imo, and I have always thought that. Ultimately though, and I am not sure when, I think he will give, because otherwise liquidation will all be on his head (not Quantuma).

[24Charlie]

So let me get this straight. Posters are advocating that bidders are expected to buy the compost heap at the bottom of Mel's garden but in order to do so MM must give them his house for free?

Edited April 1, 2022 by 24Charlie
typo

[PistoldPete]

50 minutes ago, Carnero said:

My understanding was that the bid(s) of £30m were including the stadium.

So if £20m is allocated to the stadium/MSD then that only leaves £10m to all other creditors including HMRC which is obviously well short.

The bidders point of view will be that the £30m should be allocated to the creditors and that the stadium should be thrown in for nothing, with somebody else (MM) paying off the MSD debt.

The admin/MM point of view is that the price including the stadium needs to be £50m, the price without the stadium can be £30m, but the buyers only value the club at £30m if it comes WITH the stadium.

Bridging the gap between £30m and £50m is the issue. One side, or both will need to move to bridge this gap otherwise we're stuck.

I think that sums it up, except I hope the current bids/ interest is rather more than the £30m that Binnies were offering. Even if Morris "gifts the stadium " there is still a £20 m loan secured against it so its not that much of a gift really unless we get rid of the MSD loan. Will Morris take a further hit and help pay off the £20 m loan? Morally he should definitely still help us out if he can.   

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think that sums it up, except I hope the current bids/ interest is rather more than the £30m that Binnies were offering. Even if Morris "gifts the stadium " there is still a £20 m loan secured against it so its not that much of a gift really unless we get rid of the MSD loan. Will Morris take a further hit and help pay off the £20 m loan? Morally he should definitely still help us out if he can.   

Does the answer here lie in - "what happens to the MSD loan if we are liquidated?"

 

[Big Trav]

We’ll if you thought quantama were useless before this has thrown a bit F you to all derby fans. I remember being confident. Was told Mike Ashley was PB and the deal suited all creditors. What that must of meant is Ashley offered enough to avoid 15 point deduction but wanted the stadium for free. We’re in a stand-off here and the only person losing this is derby fans. Mel wants his 20 million so he can pay his personal MSD loan off in full. Ashley wants it at the cheapest price possible. The admins clearly want more money and aren’t really working in the best interests of the club or creditors. It’s a messy situation but we all know who is still calling the shots at the club. First name begins with M and second also begins with M. 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Tombo. Two reasonable questions to ask of you.

1) How might you get Mike Ashley or any PB for that matter to pay say £50m for something they only value at say £35m.

2) How might you persuade Mel Morris to sell the Stadium to the new owner for say £5m rather than the £20m+ he is allegedly holding out for?

If you can give me satisfactory answers to those questions, I too will lose some faith in Quantuma too. But for now, I still think Q are in an impossible position because of Morris. No one willing to pay anything much more than £30/35m, and wanting the stadium included for that, and Morris not budging for whatever his reasons are. I don't like speculation. but I think his reasons are that he doesnt want either Ashley or Appleby Group paying what he thinks at an undervalue (doing him over if you like). Morris will take this to the wall imo, and I have always thought that. Ultimately though, and I am not sure when, I think he will give, because otherwise liquidation will all be on his head (not Quantuma).

Maybe they were overconfident in their first interviews and gave people false hope .

 

[Big Trav]

Also to clear up a bit of confusion there are 2 loans from MSD. One is secured against the stadium but this is a personal loan directly between MM and MSD. The loan between DCFC and MSD is 20 million and secured against the training ground and other facilities. So MM wants to pay off his personal loan with the stadium sale. Derby need to pay off their loan too. It’s a messy situation. 

[RipleyRich]

1 minute ago, Stive Pesley said:

Does the answer here lie in - "what happens to the MSD loan if we are liquidated?"

 

I`ve mentioned this before, and forgot about it TBH. If it`s guaranteed against the Stadium then it becomes MM issue or MSD take the Stadium.

I look at it this way. If MM has to gift the Stadium to save the Club, it costs him £20m to settle the loan.

If the Club is liquidated, he has to pay £20m, but still owns the Stadium and land etc

If MSD take the Stadium, he loses no additional money.

 

Now place in order what makes most financial sense to MM.

 

[PistoldPete]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Tombo. Two reasonable questions to ask of you.

1) How might you get Mike Ashley or any PB for that matter to pay say £50m for something they only value at say £35m.

2) How might you persuade Mel Morris to sell the Stadium to the new owner for say £5m rather than the £20m+ he is allegedly holding out for?

If you can give me satisfactory answers to those questions, I too will lose some faith in Quantuma too. But for now, I still think Q are in an impossible position because of Morris. No one willing to pay anything much more than £30/35m, and wanting the stadium included for that, and Morris not budging for whatever his reasons are. I don't like speculation. but I think his reasons are that he doesnt want either Ashley or Appleby Group paying what he thinks at an undervalue (doing him over if you like). Morris will take this to the wall imo, and I have always thought that. Ultimately though, and I am not sure when, I think he will give, because otherwise liquidation will all be on his head (not Quantuma).

On the Morris point, Hosking said a few weeks back he didn't have a clue how much money Morris has. That surprised me. In answer to your question, if I was trying to persuade Morris to take a further hit I would use two reasons for him to do that 1) He can afford to lose a few million  and 2) He is a fan and his fellow Rams fans are suffering big time. There is no legal basis that I know of for getting Morris to cough up more but even the moral argument has to be had with him.