The Administration Thread

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, atherstoneram said:

Not suggested by the EFL but by a so called journalist,the rules on liquidation are quite clear in the EFL rules.

Agreed. When it was suggested by that journalist that it would require 90% of EFL members to vote in favour of a Phoenix club joining L2 I said I couldn’t find any such rule and the 90% seemed to apply to if the number of members was to be extended beyond 72.

The rules on liquidation do seem clear but I’m not sure they are for admitting Phoenix clubs. I would imagine each case is based on it’s own merits (and decided by the FA unless it was L2 in which case maybe the EFL do have a say) and dependent on such things as where they are based geographically, training and stadium facilities, likely size of support, at what level the original club played etc. As you can tell, I’m guessing.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

Would they though?

As far as the EFL and fans of every other club are concerned, it`s all due to MM`s mismanagement of the club.

That’s one narrative.

What will be will be as we as fans sit on the sidelines and hope for the best. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Curtains
Altered

[Big Trav]

9 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

I’m genuinely struggling to follow what you’re alleging here. Are you saying there’s a second MSD loan that nobody else seems to know about? And if there is, it’s nothing directly to do with the club - there’s no evidence of it on companies house, and certainly no charges relating to MSD were cleared on the day we went into admin.

As of mid November the club definitely owed MSD £20m, that’s a fact.  And the suggestion is that Morris has provided collateral (i.e. the Stadium etc) to cover it (in part anyway).  If that’s not the case, then everything we’ve understood for the last 6 months is wrong, which I find highly unlikely.

No. There has been common knowledge that we sold the stadium to Mel. He got a personal loan on that from MSD which is secured against the Stadium he now owns.  Derby county LTD also got a loan from MSD of 20M which was secured against the training ground. 

[Flying Fokker]

40 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t know about anyone else but honestly I’m spent.

I am just going to enjoy the remaining games of the season, go to PP as much as possible, and focus on the football.

Our club’s future is in the hands of people with no real interest in whether the club survives or indeed thrives, so there is little point investing in the stalemate in the boardroom.

All this line dancing proves it’s not about saving Derby County, saving people’s livelihoods and reinvigorating the community, but businessmen simply trying to look like the best, shrewdest businessman in the room. How can they not read the room?

I can’t help but have misgivings about any potential ownership group moving forward. I understand that £50+ million is a lot to spend in the current circumstances, but the club’s potential to bounce back is only diminishing the more this drags on.

Derby County will bounce back.  There may be a way to go.  The core group of fans will have no problem following Derby whatever form the club takes.  Some fans will not go the journey the new owners will take.  But many of them will return after a while.  Who knows?  Fair chance the league position will be sorted by 9th April.  Then of course the League One Club loses about 10 million of its value.

  Maybe MM will do an ownership share on the ground?  One of many issues that blighted Coventry City was the strained relationship between the ground owners and the club owners (Rightly so in my view- SISU Capital tried to screw the original ground owners over). 

It came down to things like the club share of food and beverages on match days, disputed rents, exile to Northampton (And stay away fans resulted in attendances of 1700 per home game sometimes) and Birmingham 5 or so years later with attendances of 4-10k. (The fans were mellowing).  So, the point being, whatever league you are in, you must have a ground, you can build on that no mater where you are.  The Golden Share also helps!       

Coventry City owners were our saviours...Or so we thought.    We were saved at 2 minutes to midnight or we would go into administration....We were taken into admin by our saviours.   

They still come forward with bull that they are going to build a ground of their own near Warwick Universtiy  but have now sub-leased the old Ricoh Arena for 10 years.  (The owners are dreaming of Premiership football, paying off the debts etc and, I must admit, running the club with tight financial control).  They had fans forums before they decided to take us out of Coventry to Northampton and alienated the fans from day one.  But the flip side to that is that their 'control' took us down to league  2 because they were clueless for at least 10 years!  The budget for next season means that they are going to be in the bottom 3 for transfer funds.  CCFC is a selling club. 

I feel so frustrated that The Rams fans are meandering through this *hit storm.  

 

 

[Donnyram]

On 28/02/2022 at 19:39, Donnyram said:

Ashley will probably have linked the purchase of the club with the stadium I.e. my offer is the asking price but only if I get the stadium for £10m - he will want Morris to contribute and I can’t blame him.  It’s Mel’s mess!!

I’d like to hope that we are in the final stages of negotiation and that the variable is the stadium cost. It will go on for as long as Mel holds firm on the price……….. still optimistic that a deal will be done……..Mel is a Ram at heart and I’m sure wouldn’t want his legacy to be the demise of DCFC.  ?

[Curtains]

Just now, Donnyram said:

I’d like to hope that we are in the final stages of negotiation and that the variable is the stadium cost. It will go on for as long as Mel holds firm on the price……….. still optimistic that a deal will be done……..Mel is a Ram at heart and I’m sure wouldn’t want his legacy to be the demise of DCFC.  ?

I think if Mel has the means to do it he will .

The problem is none of us know what Mel can financially afford .

I know that sounds ridiculous but he’s a man that probably finds defeat hard to take because of his previous business ventures.

I appeal to you Mel from the bottom of my heart  please save our club if you possibly can .

Love Dave 

 

[Stive Pesley]

3 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

No. There has been common knowledge that we sold the stadium to Mel. He got a personal loan on that from MSD which is secured against the Stadium he now owns.  Derby county LTD also got a loan from MSD of 20M which was secured against the training ground. 

I may have missed this, but do we actually understand the reasons as to why MM took out such big loans from MSD?

 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I may have missed this, but do we actually understand the reasons as to why MM took out such big loans from MSD?

 

Well unless we are being cynical I would imagine after losing 200 Million which he has claimed he needed the money to keep the club going day to day .

I have no idea of Mels financial situation but I’m sure he’s taken hits on Derby chasing the dream 

[jimtastic56]

10 hours ago, Big Trav said:

One of the only ways the footballing world will take notice is if on sky cameras all 20k storm the pitch and the game gets called off. It’ll hurt skys pockets and people will take notice 

I can understand the anger of Big Trav. DCFC is in big trouble and Sky are more interested in the form of Harry Maguire. Can you imagine what the fans would be doing at Roma or Galatasary! Forest fans had banners and scarfs out when Fawaz got them embargoed.But all we have been told for  couple of years is “Sit down and keep quiet”

[duncanjwitham]

10 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

No. There has been common knowledge that we sold the stadium to Mel. He got a personal loan on that from MSD which is secured against the Stadium he now owns.  Derby county LTD also got a loan from MSD of 20M which was secured against the training ground. 

Obviously we know we sold the stadium to Mel, and that there is a loan of some sort, but nothing in your post beyond that is "common knowledge".  Common knowledge (certainly my understanding anyway) is that the club has a single £20m (+ a bit more now) loan from MSD secured against the training ground, the stadium and probably some other of Morris's personal assets.  Again, common knowledge was that "buying" the stadium from Mel for ~£20m would clear that MSD debt.  As far as I've seen, nobody has *ever* suggested that there is a second loan secured against the stadium, and that it is completely separate from the £20m that we know about.

If what you are saying is true, then the club's financial position is massively worse than we all thought, because the club is directly on the hock for that extra £20m on top of everything else.  All the talk of £50m to clear debts and get the stadium is nonsense, it's more like £70m.

Do you have any evidence for this second loan?  Because what you're saying is so counter to what literally every media report has said for the last 2 years.

[duncanjwitham]

15 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I may have missed this, but do we actually understand the reasons as to why MM took out such big loans from MSD?

 

Club income was reduced by £30m-£40m because of lockdown and the stadium closures. That money had to come from somewhere (to pay running costs, wages etc), and at some point Morris decided that he either couldn't afford to, or didn't want to, carry on funding the club to that extent, on top of what he was already funding.  Hence the loans and then debts piling up.

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I have no idea of Mels financial situation 

Does anyone?? He's widely reported as being worth £500m but we can conclude that net worth does not = cash-rich

However, the worrying thing for me is that his Companies House page has always been a rats nest of intertwined holding companies and splinter companies. He even has two entries for himself as an Officer (which I didn't even think was legal?)

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/dy7iyFehpRcbMthR8Vwl-w46Yb8/appointments

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/-_r2zY5bbbWXJQZDVhge82oa0G0/appointments

Even now - with "THE DERBY COUNTY FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED " in administration since last year, he's still an active director of multiple Gellaw Newco companies (202 through to 205), Gellaw 101 Limited and Sevco 5113 - all of which appear to be related to DCFC, as well as Stadia DCFC Ltd, DCFC Academy Ltd and Derby County Stadium Limited. These are all still active companies (ie not in Admin)

[Leeds Ram]

If the PB isn't willing to stump up for the stadium then we're essentially in a scenario that could easily see the club killed. It would be better if Mel is just unwilling rather than unable as if he's unable to compromise due to lack of finances barring council involvement it looks like we could be done for. If he's unwilling then it's time to put all the pressure we can (within legal limits) on him until he gives in. 

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

If the PB isn't willing to stump up for the stadium then we're essentially in a scenario that could easily see the club killed. It would be better if Mel is just unwilling rather than unable as if he's unable to compromise due to lack of finances barring council involvement it looks like we could be done for. If he's unwilling then it's time to put all the pressure we can (within legal limits) on him until he gives in. 

I think if he has the means we are relying on him having good will towards the situation.

 PS Where have all the MPs and Council leaders and celebrities gone again !

Why are we getting no concrete news .

Is no news good news 

 

 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

2 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Why? 
 

Two bidders, Mel, the EFL and creditors all with skin in the game and qualified legally appointed administrators whatever you think of them. Derby get liquidated - everyone loses. 

There is no way a deal can’t be done, it’s in everyone’s interests. Therefore a deal will be done but it will be even more bumpy until it happens. 

 

 

 

I hope you are right, I really do.

[glyn1957]

37 minutes ago, Flying Fokker said:

Derby County will bounce back.  There may be a way to go.  The core group of fans will have no problem following Derby whatever form the club takes.  Some fans will not go the journey the new owners will take.  But many of them will return after a while.  Who knows?  Fair chance the league position will be sorted by 9th April.  Then of course the League One Club loses about 10 million of its value.

  Maybe MM will do an ownership share on the ground?  One of many issues that blighted Coventry City was the strained relationship between the ground owners and the club owners (Rightly so in my view- SISU Capital tried to screw the original ground owners over). 

It came down to things like the club share of food and beverages on match days, disputed rents, exile to Northampton (And stay away fans resulted in attendances of 1700 per home game sometimes) and Birmingham 5 or so years later with attendances of 4-10k. (The fans were mellowing).  So, the point being, whatever league you are in, you must have a ground, you can build on that no mater where you are.  The Golden Share also helps!       

Coventry City owners were our saviours...Or so we thought.    We were saved at 2 minutes to midnight or we would go into administration....We were taken into admin by our saviours.   

They still come forward with bull that they are going to build a ground of their own near Warwick Universtiy  but have now sub-leased the old Ricoh Arena for 10 years.  (The owners are dreaming of Premiership football, paying off the debts etc and, I must admit, running the club with tight financial control).  They had fans forums before they decided to take us out of Coventry to Northampton and alienated the fans from day one.  But the flip side to that is that their 'control' took us down to league  2 because they were clueless for at least 10 years!  The budget for next season means that they are going to be in the bottom 3 for transfer funds.  CCFC is a selling club. 

I feel so frustrated that The Rams fans are meandering through this *hit storm.  

 

 

I went to the game at the Ricoh  and took my two grandsons along with  me ,it was the match where all the trouble was with fans wearing t shirts spelling Sisu out on them and watching the stewards running up and down the stairs trying to  pull them off the fans but the fans just threw them up or down for others to put on .

Now the reason i recall this match was when you said we as DCFC fans are meandering along and i agree with you ,as a fan base we have never really been disruptive  and i think the EFL are happy about that but the games are passing us by if we want / need to demonstrate our anger, lets go out with a bang and not a bl@@dy whimper like RAMS not bl@@dy sheep .

[Leeds Ram]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think if he has the means we are relying on him having good will towards the situation.

 PS Where have all the MPs and Council leaders and celebrities gone again !

Why are we getting no concrete news .

Is no news good news 

 

 

There are some rumours that a meeting has been had with the council, the bidder and someone from the club so that the stadium will be owned by the council and leased to us in a workable way. Another rumour is that the council ran the numbers before and couldn't make it work but the very real threat of the club's extinction is making them think again. 

I'm not sure if no news is good news but it's all such a ducking mess. I just want to be able to go and enjoy the football without worrying if we'll have a club again. 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

Said it before and will say it again, end of the season, cant see the takeover happening sooner. If you were a hard nosed businessman, Why would you pay a certain price when you can wait a few weeks and pick it up at a fraction of the price. When the season ends and there is no more money coming in from tickets, ST and last payment for TV has been paid we are going to be in serious trouble and that's when a fiver will be plenty to buy the club (might need a top up for the debt)

Re. The stadium if that is really the stumbling block, what is Derby city council doing? Right next door the vaccinodrome is sometimes used for a bit of a cycling but not good enough for proper competition and cannot be used for concerts the acoustics are cr@p. How about they buy PPS and lease it back to the club? Where i come from you can count on the fingers of your hand the number of clubs who own the stadium. It is a community asset owned by the council or the county council.

[PistoldPete]

17 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

If the PB isn't willing to stump up for the stadium then we're essentially in a scenario that could easily see the club killed. It would be better if Mel is just unwilling rather than unable as if he's unable to compromise due to lack of finances barring council involvement it looks like we could be done for. If he's unwilling then it's time to put all the pressure we can (within legal limits) on him until he gives in. 

Spot on.

[i-Ram]

23 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Obviously we know we sold the stadium to Mel, and that there is a loan of some sort, but nothing in your post beyond that is "common knowledge".  Common knowledge (certainly my understanding anyway) is that the club has a single £20m (+ a bit more now) loan from MSD secured against the training ground, the stadium and probably some other of Morris's personal assets.  Again, common knowledge was that "buying" the stadium from Mel for ~£20m would clear that MSD debt.  As far as I've seen, nobody has *ever* suggested that there is a second loan secured against the stadium, and that it is completely separate from the £20m that we know about.

If what you are saying is true, then the club's financial position is massively worse than we all thought, because the club is directly on the hock for that extra £20m on top of everything else.  All the talk of £50m to clear debts and get the stadium is nonsense, it's more like £70m.

Do you have any evidence for this second loan?  Because what you're saying is so counter to what literally every media report has said for the last 2 years.

With respect, @Big Travhas never given me the impression he knows the difference between his socks and his underpants. I would relax if I were you.

Indeed everyone, FFS, chill out. So much mis-information on this thread in the last few days. Just wait for Q to make their next report. There isnt anything you can do, and no amount of posting misinformation and supposition is going to help (particular those who seem on the edge regarding the current situation).