The Administration Thread

[Geoff Parkstone]

9 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

At this point I think I'd genuinely rather see us liquidated than give Gibson and Coughig a penny. Might not be a popular approach, but if it brings about the demise of the EFL and precipitates a massive bubble bursting from underneath them then good. Let it all burn.

I sadly find myself agreeing with that.  If it takes the demise of our club to bring about fair and independent regulation and a proper framework for financial fair play - with no capability for vexatious legal action by parties who believe they particularly suffered from breaches - then so be it.  I don't want to pay that price, but football in the round needs a radical overhaul in so many ways, if only so that Derby Phenix can find itself in a better place when it returns to this level.

[R@M]

Just as an aside #SaveDerbyCounty is getting 350 tweets per hour…

#BorisOut is only getting 300 so the twittersphere is more behind us surviving than Boris leaving….I think that is a bit of a win in terms of importance ??

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, DCFC27 said:

He took the loan, and personally guaranteed it. 
We as fans didn’t want him to sell the stadium, that has never sat right with any Derby fan. 

This is clearly the main dribbling block to exiting admin, whilst other creditors are maybe getting 25p on the pound, MM is not taking the hit. 

He took out the loan to carry on cheating the EFL, continue funding for players well beyond our means and ultimately decided he didn’t want to fund us any more. 
 

Fine, but take a hit Mel, even if he dropped to £15m at least either the admin could pay off Boro and Wycombe or the new owners may take on the legal battle. 
 

The stadium in my view is the key to deal, and MM/Admin are leading us a merry dance in blaming Boro and Wycombe 

 

There not though . Give Morris 20 million he pays his loan and the buyer gets a stadium .  No brainer

Owe HMRC 28 million.  Pay 12 up front, cover another 10 over 3 years in full settlement . No problem.

Have a wage bill that covers itself and  30 million coming in or even 17-20 on relegation .  Great.

HAVE TWO twits YOU MAY OR MAY NOT OWE 52 MILLION ON TOP

 

 

[maxjam]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

My conclusion for why its worth. 

Steve Gibson still hates MM. 

Steve Gibson has been given so much perceived power by the EFL not telling him to pipe down through fear of being sued that he thinks he has the right to get answers to those questions. 

The administrators have no choice but to be ballsy and take this down to the wire. 

The statement form Middlesbrough is about as unprofessional as I've ever seen, especially since they have tried to write it professionally. It makes me despair we have to deal with someone who has the ego to put that out in the public and think it looks good.

Its been 3 days since MPs, media and all of our fans found out just how incompetent the EFL are, confirming many of our suspicions. We have 11 more days. That's plenty of time for many more twists and turns. 

We just need to realise, that for us to come out of this, the administrators will take us all the way to the deadline. 

Agree. 

I commented in an earlier post that we'll never have as much support as we'll generate in the next 2 weeks.  If we manage to raise the cash and limp on until the end of the season with nothing resolved we'll just run up even more debt and will still face the exact same situation - only next time some people it will be, 'oh its Derby again'.  Now is the best time to resolve this.

Take it to the deadline, generate and much noise as possible and put the EFL and Boro/Wycombe under enough pressure to cut us some slack, else be forever remembered as the ones that liquidated a founder member that had rescue bids waiting to go.

Its a mexican standoff that we can't afford to lose, but imo its coming sooner or later and we'll never have as much support and sympathy as we have now.

[RadioactiveWaste]

As time ticks away,

Who is most likely to suffer from a disaster scenario?

Bidders can walk away.

Boro and WW end up with nothing, but have lost nothing.

The EFL have adopted a position they can't do anything (even if they wanted to)

The administrators get paid out of the liquidation pot.

The losers are the creditors and us the fans.

So really, the creditors persuade Boro and WW to drop the claims or settlement at very nominal value (like £10k and your perm was right to Gibson and £2k for your Lionel Hutz attorney at law impression Mr Couhig)

[Norman]

1 minute ago, Duracell said:

I think this is about as bleak as it can get, because everyone has now dug their heels in. It's a stalemate. And that is the last thing you need with the clock ticking...

But that's exactly what you would expect with a deadline set. 

Everyone has put their position in the public domain. I'm sure they've all been urged and had pressure put on them to release these statements. They all have done that now. 

The next step is who will blink first. Its going to be a long 11 days. I'm not worried, though. 

I think the outcome will be a nominal payment to the claims and we will have proof of funds until the end of the season. 

Also, I've just realised SG has the audacity to ask how much the ongoing charges are from the administration, because he believes they are earning money he could be claiming, without realising his actions are making that bill go up daily. 

ducking moron. 

[rufus]

Another thing puzzling me about this Wycome claim is that in the efl statement they say it is "of a similar nature" (to the diddlesborough claim) and that they haven't yet received full details. This is troubling because a/ why did they allow Wycome to anounce it when they haven't received the details and b/ this means Wycome can tailor it to situation as it changes and even make up their excuses as it goes along. Something of this nature capable of leading to the liquidation of another club should be tied down and specific, not as vague as "of a similar nature" and "we haven't yet received full details". The more I read the less I am confident of the competence of the admins. These things should be in writing and specific so all parties know exactly what is happening.

[Eatonram]

In a Nutshell, the EFL's position is ....if we make a decision on this to unblock the logjam, Boro will sue us instead of Derby.

The extortion is quite simply that crude.

[Hanny]

6 minutes ago, Maharan said:

Yeah, I get what you’re saying, but to me it reads like coming out of admin might have to be via a restructuring rather than a CVA. That might incur another points deduction 

Could be. ?‍♂️ I (we all), hope for clarity tout de suite!

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

Would you go into business with MM? 

I'd look at the options:

1. Agree to buy the stadium
2. Continue renting the stadium
3. Groundshare with another club (Notts County?)
4. Build a new stadium

Those first two options are the most appealing, so if agreeing a fee for the stadium was a problem, I'd stick to the "peppercorn rent"

[vonwright]

24 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

IMO - It’s reported that Mel Morris wants 20million for the stadium.

Pure speculation but if Morris kept the stadium in order to sell to the new owners on the condition he gets enough to cover debts to MSD which he personally guaranteed, then I can see Gibson's problem.

That said, that doesn't make it okay to take it out on the club and essentially force DCFC to the point of liquidation simply to make sure Morris ends up having to pay something to someone. 

If this is now a personal war between two mega-rich people, that's very dangerous for us. 

[DCFC27]

2 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

There not though . Give Morris 20 million he pays his loan and the buyer gets a stadium .  No brainer

Owe HMRC 28 million.  Pay 12 up front, cover another 10 over 3 years in full settlement . No problem.

Have a wage bill that covers itself and  30 million coming in or even 17-20 on relegation .  Great.

HAVE TWO twits YOU MAY OR MAY NOT OWE 52 MILLION ON TOP

 

 

I personally think that they would disappear for less that £5m, Mel made the mess take that from what he’s owed he should do something to clean it up 

[TooFarInToTurnRed]

Just now, Barney1991 said:

Everyone needs to wake up to the fact you can blame middlesborough Wycombe efl as much as you want. Mel Morris is 70 percent to blame for this mess. Kitchener deal fell apart because Morris refused to sell for less than he wanted. He’s getting ripped to shreds in statements and won’t show face to save the club from the mess he caused. Everyone is to fixed on efl and orher clubs and he’s setting off in the sunset Scott clear.

I agree but unfortunately as a group of fans our best hope is to apply as much pressure on the people who need to find a settlement for the future of our club. Boro feeling the need to issue what is in reality a defensive statement however it may seem speaks volumes, they are feeling the pressure and are looking for a way out I suspect.

 

[Mihangel]

35 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

The EFL invited each of the Administrators, Middlesbrough FC, and Wycombe Wanderers to make submissions last week, and we are now in the process of reviewing those submissions with a view to identifying a route to resolve the conflict which exists between the respective positions of, on the one hand, Derby County, and on the other Middlesbrough and Wycombe Wanderers.

Finally, something positive. I still don't agree that those clubs should be involved in any way but at least this an opportunity for the EFL to tell them to naff off.

[DCFC27]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'd look at the options:

1. Agree to buy the stadium
2. Continue renting the stadium
3. Groundshare with another club (Notts County?)
4. Build a new stadium

Those first two options are the most appealing, so if agreeing a fee for the stadium was a problem, I'd stick to the "peppercorn rent"

£1.1m hardly peppercorn. MM is still pulling the strings. Needs highlighting and I believe   Gibson is doing so 

[SBW]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

But that's exactly what you would expect with a deadline set. 

Everyone has put their position in the public domain. I'm sure they've all been urged and had pressure put on them to release these statements. They all have done that now. 

The next step is who will blink first. Its going to be a long 11 days. I'm not worried, though. 

I think the outcome will be a nominal payment to the claims and we will have proof of funds until the end of the season. 

Also, I've just realised SG has the audacity to ask how much the ongoing charges are from the administration, because he believes they are earning money he could be claiming, without realising his actions are making that bill go up daily. 

ducking moron. 

I'm still not sure Q are putting their position entirely in the public domain.  Feels like of each parties announcements, they're the ones still not telling all.

Even today, they've said they've presented 3 options to fund the rest of the season and seeing what the EFL say regarding them.  Why not tell us what the options are?  Is it so if/when they get knocked back they can put their own spin on it?  

They put options forward before, i.e getting the preferred bidder to take them on without trying to resolve the Boro/Wycombe issue, which wasn't acceptable.  Is that one of the offers again now, in the hope things have changed? Be nice to know. 

[jono]

4 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

Everyone needs to wake up to the fact you can blame middlesborough Wycombe efl as much as you want. Mel Morris is 70 percent to blame for this mess. Kitchener deal fell apart because Morris refused to sell for less than he wanted. He’s getting ripped to shreds in statements and won’t show face to save the club from the mess he caused. Everyone is to fixed on efl and orher clubs and he’s setting off in the sunset Scott clear.

No Barney. Businesses get in difficulty every day. In normal circumstances Derby would, after Mel, be facing some dark days but we would come through it. Bad owners or difficult circumstances happen to all clubs.  The fault and the risk of our liquidation lies in one place only. The EFL. As a governing body they have done nothing but vacillate, pontificate and fail in their duty to regulate their competition in a competent and even handed way. 

[OUFCfan]

As an outsider can I ask, who is to blame for the situation you're all in now, I'm presuming Mel Morris? but were there others? 

I know EFL, MFC/WW issues are ongoing but that obvs didn't start the situation

[Tamworthram]

36 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Point 1). Mind you own business.

Point 2).Not worthy of conversation.

Point 3). Mind your own business.

Point 4). Compromise not acceptable as claim refuted.

Point 5). Mind your own business.

Absolutely this.

They, and the EFL, seem to be trying deflect all attention from what would seem to be the critical stumbling block: whether their claim, and that from Wycombe, are classed as football debts.

[secretsquirrel]

11 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

He took the loan, and personally guaranteed it. 
We as fans didn’t want him to sell the stadium, that has never sat right with any Derby fan. 

This is clearly the main stumbling block to exiting admin, whilst other creditors are maybe getting 25p on the pound, MM is not taking the hit. 

He took out the loan to carry on cheating the EFL, continue funding for players well beyond our means and ultimately decided he didn’t want to fund us any more. 
 

Fine, but take a hit Mel, even if he dropped to £15m at least either the admin could pay off Boro and Wycombe or the new owners may take on the legal battle. 
 

The stadium in my view is the key to deal, and MM/Admin are leading us a merry dance in blaming Boro and Wycombe 

 

I do also believe the stadium is a problem as i think MM wants to upthe price by adding his debt to MSD to the £20million price .