The Administration Thread

[Hanny]

I’m trying to sort out the figures I see floating around here and elsewhere. 

If I understand correctly:

1. the debts to creditors are Non-negotiable. Seems logical to me in this case. there are tangible dollars owed. So any bid must provide payment for those up front.(creditors are made while first). 

2. The purchase price for the club and it’s assets are 100% negotiable. This is where I believe the stand off is happening. It will be up to the administrators to take the best deal and not chase away money. As pa used to say: it’s better to be looking at it, than looking for it. 
 

3. The threats of lawsuit are not really about Derby. And I’m not too concerned with them. It’s long been a power play of rich folk/companies to claim suit in a situation, with the only purpose of attempting to get precedent set. They are using the Derby situation to try and better their own bargaining position for something later on. 

Summary of what I think is happening:

1. any bidder must sign and agree to payoff the creditors, by showing proof of funds to that end. 
2. Only thing left is standard negotiation table standoffs to land on an agreed price point for club and assets. 
 

Hopefully  someone yields a bit to get this over the line. 
 

coyr

[EraniosSocks]

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, StrawHillRam said:

Mail online gives a very bleak outlook on the takeover.

 Drained any remaining hope I had

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10379059/Derby-County-consortium-led-former-chairman-Andy-Appleby-pole-position-club.html?ito=email_share_article-masthead'>Read full story</a> 

Lots of truth there but a lot of worst case scenario. You could put some of it at the door of clubs that are not in administration (debts). The deal will go through and Derby will survive. Most probably L1 but let’s see. Re buying players that will not happen, cheap loans and perms maybe. Will we sell, maybe for instance if TL says he will not re sign and someone offers £1m we will take it, less probably. Youngsters will need a serious bid.

be optimistic we will be ok, we will regroup and move forward we just need to remember the lessons something that we and other clubs struggle with

[Woodley Ram]

2 minutes ago, Hanny said:

I’m trying to sort out the figures I see floating around here and elsewhere. 

If I understand correctly:

1. the debts to creditors are Non-negotiable. Seems logical to me in this case. there are tangible dollars owed. So any bid must provide payment for those up front.(creditors are made while first). 

2. The purchase price for the club and it’s assets are 100% negotiable. This is where I believe the stand off is happening. It will be up to the administrators to take the best deal and not chase away money. As pa used to say: it’s better to be looking at it, than looking for it. 
 

3. The threats of lawsuit are not really about Derby. And I’m not too concerned with them. It’s long been a power play of rich folk/companies to claim suit in a situation, with the only purpose of attempting to get precedent set. They are using the Derby situation to try and better their own bargaining position for something later on. 

Summary of what I think is happening:

1. any bidder must sign and agree to payoff the creditors, by showing proof of funds to that end. 
2. Only thing left is standard negotiation table standoffs to land on an agreed price point for club and assets. 
 

Hopefully  someone yields a bit to get this over the line. 
 

coyr

Good post

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

25 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Read my post again. It isn’t blind faith. We have a bidder and we’re going to the next phase. Now the negotiations start. You can only do this phase with one buyer so not having any more left in the race is irrelevant, they kept as many in the game as possible for as long as possible to get as much as they could on the table but also ensure whoever we have at the end is credible. 
 

The outcome of this is any of the following:

CVA - Probably going to take an increased offer for it to happen so it’s not looking likely

Restructuring Plan - including paying creditors back all what they’re owed or good proportion over a time period, keeping on other debts potentially such as MSD. IMO most likely scenario 

Liquidation - the creditors don’t agree to anything, club gets liquidated and they get nothing. Only a blind fatalist thinks this is the likely outcome.

A restructuring plan will inevitably result in starting next season on minus points (is it -15?) most likely in league 1. So it isn’t great but a lot better than liquidation, it’s also a position that Leeds United have come back from and therefore we can. 
 

Yes one bidder but there hasn’t been a preferred bidder agreed even though there is noise about Appleby? And you would have expected a fair few in the running if the club was in a good position. Also, you’re assuming Appleby will put in an acceptable offer which would cover debts etc. 

[Curtains]

11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Only the Daily Fail could make today seem negative. Usual trick of using un-named sources. The only sources they have used are the Daily Telegraph and The Athletic which doesn't suggest they can actually afford proper journalists of their own. Oh and that Krasnner guy who is full of poo.

You must be the most optimistic guy on the planet and me the most pessimistic as we are poles apart on this. 
We will probably survive by the skin of our teeth. 
Get ready for a rocky ride IMO 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Curtains
Changed

[Gaspode]

18 minutes ago, Curtains said:

.....Im going to Coventry tomorrow 

I assume you're being sent there as punishment for being such a cheery  chappy......

[Curtains]

Just now, Gaspode said:

I assume you're being sent there as punishment for being such a cheery  chappy......

No just realistic 

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

You must be the most optimistic guy on the planet and me the most pessimistic as we are poles apart on this. 
We will probably survive by the skin of out teeth. 

Owen Bradley , who works for the Rams so is a reliable and named  source has said Wayne Rooney has been told he can re-sign players and looking to bring in new ones. So I think that is genuine news unlike anything the Daily Fail has rehashed from senstionalist quotes  and painted in the most negative way it can.  

[Curtains]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

Owen Bradley , who works for the Rams so is a reliable and named  source has said Wayne Rooney has been told he can re-sign players and looking to bring in new ones. So I think that is genuine news unlike anything the Daily Fail has rehashed from senstionalist quotes  and painted in the most negative way it can.  

Really let’s see shall we. 
Let’s see after January finishes if the wool is being pulled over their eyes. 

I hope the situation is going to be amazing I really do. 
I’ll wait and see. 

 

 

 

[BucksRam]

52 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

The problem is that you, I and everyone else on this forum, is personally invested in the club. The reporting is by the Daily Mail - it’s a national newspaper, not a Derby rag. There will be many many football fans nationwide who have no idea what is going on with our Club, and probably a large number who don’t care. As I said above, I don’t think the reporting is unreasonable. It seems more than less to reflect the current position. If this were say Ipswich or Sunderland being reported on, how much would we all actually care? 

Yep, agree.  I guess my point was it's just yet another regurgitation by them of the challenges facing us.  Nothing new there.  I look forward to seeing a hugely positive and congratulatory article in the Mail when the sale goes through, and when we subsequently pull off the great escape. 

[B4ev6is]

30 minutes ago, Curtains said:

It’s not up to us if we go bust it’s up to the likes of HMRC and MSD and other football clubs as creditors to decide what they will except from the preferred bidder as a settlement figure . Mel will have a say as well over the Stadium sale.  
The player signings will be a smoke screen. 
Up the Rams. 
Im going to Coventry tomorrow 

Roony would not be saying that if that was the case.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, B4ev6is said:

Roony would not be saying that if that was the case.

Ok mate I prefer to wait and see. 
 

[TomTom92]

Only Derby could have the manager come out saying “things are moving quickly and a signing is close” only for a national paper to paint the bleakest of pictures an hour later. 
  
Honestly think there’s something to the Daily Mail story, the same drums about HMRC and being made an example of keeps happening. Plus Rooney has been positive in press conferences before only for it to all go south so can’t really take his word for much. 
  
I know people lambast the idea of Mike Ashley but at least with him you’d be pretty certain he’s got the readies to save the club. This Appleby consortium sounds like best case scenario is us challenging for promotion to the championship in 10 seasons time. 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

And if Appleby pulls out? While it doesn’t do anyone any good to be negative, I think blind faith skews a lot of fans’ thoughts about this - the 95 per cent chance of survival with £30 mil HMRC debts? If all DCFC is left with is one potential buyer ..... those odds seem crazy now. If we were discussing any other club you would have to say it doesn’t look good. There has been attempts to sell DCFC for years now and still it drags on. Hoping DCFC has a future but what happens if Appleby can’t get the cash or the offer is rejected?

Wigan went through several "preferred bidders " before coming out of admin. That can happen. 

 

[Crewton]

It will be interesting to see if certain contracts get extended, even more so if Rooney is allowed to sign a player, because I can't imagine the Administrators sanctioning an increase in the club's expenditure and liabilities unless they were confident that those items could be covered for the duration they apply to - it just doesn't happen otherwise. 

[Yani P]

Typical Mail garbage..mainly a negative slant on already out there information with a few gutter press unnamed sources thrown in...garbage..

[B4ev6is]

14 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Only Derby could have the manager come out saying “things are moving quickly and a signing is close” only for a national paper to paint the bleakest of pictures an hour later. 
  
Honestly think there’s something to the Daily Mail story, the same drums about HMRC and being made an example of keeps happening. Plus Rooney has been positive in press conferences before only for it to all go south so can’t really take his word for much. 
  
I know people lambast the idea of Mike Ashley but at least with him you’d be pretty certain he’s got the readies to save the club. This Appleby consortium sounds like best case scenario is us challenging for promotion to the championship in 10 seasons time. 

Look mate stop being negative roony will have plans in place and plus appley a rich man and rich backers also.

 

[jono]

43 minutes ago, Hanny said:

I’m trying to sort out the figures I see floating around here and elsewhere. 

If I understand correctly:

1. the debts to creditors are Non-negotiable. Seems logical to me in this case. there are tangible dollars owed. So any bid must provide payment for those up front.(creditors are made while first). 

2. The purchase price for the club and it’s assets are 100% negotiable. This is where I believe the stand off is happening. It will be up to the administrators to take the best deal and not chase away money. As pa used to say: it’s better to be looking at it, than looking for it. 
 

3. The threats of lawsuit are not really about Derby. And I’m not too concerned with them. It’s long been a power play of rich folk/companies to claim suit in a situation, with the only purpose of attempting to get precedent set. They are using the Derby situation to try and better their own bargaining position for something later on. 

Summary of what I think is happening:

1. any bidder must sign and agree to payoff the creditors, by showing proof of funds to that end. 
2. Only thing left is standard negotiation table standoffs to land on an agreed price point for club and assets. 
 

Hopefully  someone yields a bit to get this over the line. 
 

coyr

It doesn’t work like that. The creditors have just one choice .. to accept the best bid the admins are able to get or reject that bid and then the club is liquidated. .. That is .. it ceases to exist and any assets such as memorabilia, office furniture, stock in the mega store is sold at auction and the funds divided between them. There is absolutely no guarantee that creditors will be paid in full.

usually they get a payout of a certain percentage of what is owed to them. 10p for every pound owed or something similar.

There is a complex list of creditors with priorities over normal ones. The rules change from time to time but at present the HMRC are pretty much first in the queue taking presidence over normal trade creditors like food and drink suppliers. 
 

when a limited company fails.. has no money !  .. the word limited is the key .. it means limited liability.. I.e. payouts to creditors limited to the assets of the company. 

[ThePrisoner]

55 minutes ago, EraniosSocks said:

Sam Rush?