From fighting -12 point deduction to acceptance of -21

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

26 minutes ago, Flying Fokker said:

Not sure this is fair?

Reading agree SIX point Championship deduction with the EFL | Daily Mail Online

Reading agree SIX point Championship deduction with the EFL | Daily Mail Online

 

 

We rolled over and got tickled as the admin will need to show creditors that the money spent was better used on legal fees, rather than liability. Good week for Reading- 6 points for blowing FFP out the water and a new striker under wage embargo. What's happening with Stokes 90 million overspend - that's right , there being let off due to covid, I forgot.

[sawley_ram]

2 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

We rolled over and got tickled as the admin will need to show creditors that the money spent was better used on legal fees, rather than liability. Good week for Reading- 6 points for blowing FFP out the water and a new striker under wage embargo. What's happening with Stokes 90 million overspend - that's right , there being let off due to covid, I forgot.

Massive +1 to this. Annoying thing is nobody on the outside will be bothered about it or even notice, as we get dragged through the mud in the media as an example of the "bad boys". Can't believe I was sympathising with some Reading fans before our home game as well... ?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Don Quixote immediately springs to mind 

[BucksRam]

There's a few things I want (for Christmas), among which:

1. I want to see us continue to fight with the amazing spirit shown so far - I don't want to see capitulation and if we do go down, as is sadly likely, we do so head held high, proud and fighting
2. I want a new buyer in, without an ego, who is ready to bring real stability to this great club, and one ready to commit to at least the next decade, rebuilding a sustainable, successful club even if that happens to be in League 1 (for now). 
3. I want our academy to continue to go from strength to strength, maintaining its status as one of the best in the country and for our U23s, U18s et al continue to be a success
4. I want our Women's team to continue the excellent progress shown to date such that, with support and development it can establish itself as the one of the contending women's teams nationally (I won't say in the WSL specifically as we don't want the same issues as we're now in for the men!). 
5. Oh, and I want a publicly available independent review of everything the EFL has done to so many great clubs, not just us, covering:

• their complete and utter inability to consistently protect and represent the members they claim to hold in such esteem whilst only seemingly looking after their own self-interests.
• operating a framework and infrastructure that enables, promotes and allows financial suicide to attain PL status and the financial rewards attached,
• their complete inability to consistently apply and understand their own rules,
• their inability to act in a timely fashion on key decisions, whilst at the same time imposing penalties on members for not acting in a timely fashion according to the EFL
• (allegedly) allowing external parties to influence decisions, 
• their penchant for showing hidden agendas on what they want (use of such phrases as "disappointing....")
• creating an environment that allows clubs to sue each other where the basis of the claims is as a result of the EFL's decisions, not the club being sued
• their seeming ability to ignore and not hold to account the many clubs blatantly ignoring the rules, gaining promotion and not being held to account
• not fighting for their members by allowing and accepting horrendous TV deals / parachute payments that by their nature create a massively disproportionate financial tier system in the leagues (one of the reasons they hated MM from the get go).
• I'm sure there's more but I've run out of puff

[vonwright]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I think the only minor inaccuracy in your post is that the EFL did not object to our amortisation approach, rather than they agreed with it. 

I'm just panicking now that the FCA might now decide to haul me over the coals and lock me away for the issue that was investigated by the fsa in 2004 and no further action was decided upon. 

Clearly I was bang to rights and should be made an example of. It's a disgrace that people like me are allowed to walk the streets, frankly. 

?

Did the EFL ever investigate and decide no further action was necessary? I mean the whole process has been woefully slow, no doubt, but I thought their line was that they don't 'approve' accounts, they just take action where they think policies breach the rules?

Having said that I do think it's a bit unfair to fail for years to take action over a policy, then seek to apply a punishment for several years during which that policy was used. I've not fully thought this through, obviously, but there should be some equivalent of the statute of limitations at play. I guess pointing out this unfairness was part of our bargaining for 'only' nine points when by the letter of the law our breaches would have merited more. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by vonwright

[Premier ram]

19 hours ago, BucksRam said:

There's a few things I want (for Christmas), among which:

1. I want to see us continue to fight with the amazing spirit shown so far - I don't want to see capitulation and if we do go down, as is sadly likely, we do so head held high, proud and fighting
2. I want a new buyer in, without an ego, who is ready to bring real stability to this great club, and one ready to commit to at least the next decade, rebuilding a sustainable, successful club even if that happens to be in League 1 (for now). 
3. I want our academy to continue to go from strength to strength, maintaining its status as one of the best in the country and for our U23s, U18s et al continue to be a success
4. I want our Women's team to continue the excellent progress shown to date such that, with support and development it can establish itself as the one of the contending women's teams nationally (I won't say in the WSL specifically as we don't want the same issues as we're now in for the men!). 
5. Oh, and I want a publicly available independent review of everything the EFL has done to so many great clubs, not just us, covering:

• their complete and utter inability to consistently protect and represent the members they claim to hold in such esteem whilst only seemingly looking after their own self-interests.
• operating a framework and infrastructure that enables, promotes and allows financial suicide to attain PL status and the financial rewards attached,
• their complete inability to consistently apply and understand their own rules,
• their inability to act in a timely fashion on key decisions, whilst at the same time imposing penalties on members for not acting in a timely fashion according to the EFL
• (allegedly) allowing external parties to influence decisions, 
• their penchant for showing hidden agendas on what they want (use of such phrases as "disappointing....")
• creating an environment that allows clubs to sue each other where the basis of the claims is as a result of the EFL's decisions, not the club being sued
• their seeming ability to ignore and not hold to account the many clubs blatantly ignoring the rules, gaining promotion and not being held to account
• not fighting for their members by allowing and accepting horrendous TV deals / parachute payments that by their nature create a massively disproportionate financial tier system in the leagues (one of the reasons they hated MM from the get go).
• I'm sure there's more but I've run out of puff

Brilliant post mate , agree with everything

[DCFC27]

Starting to feel as though the administrators are cut from the same cloth as Mr Morris. 
 

I’ve listened intently to their interviews over the past few months, and they confidently said that the EFL has offered them a lower points deduction and they were very confident of the appeal etc. Suddenly we were dropping said appeal and accepting 9 points. 
 

More importantly, the administrators said they would conclude by the end of December with a week or twos grace either side. 
 

Today Mr Jackson has come out saying he said  that it was always unlikely and was wishful thinking, hoping that they could try to sort by the end of Jan.

Very poor. 

[angieram]

Just now, DCFC27 said:

 

I’ve listened intently to their interviews over the past few months, and they confidently said that the EFL has offered them a lower points deduction and they were very confident of the appeal etc. 
 

When and where did they say that?

[Premier ram]

5 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

Starting to feel as though the administrators are cut from the same cloth as Mr Morris. 
 

I’ve listened intently to their interviews over the past few months, and they confidently said that the EFL has offered them a lower points deduction and they were very confident of the appeal etc. Suddenly we were dropping said appeal and accepting 9 points. 
 

More importantly, the administrators said they would conclude by the end of December with a week or twos grace either side. 
 

Today Mr Jackson has come out saying he said  that it was always unlikely and was wishful thinking, hoping that they could try to sort by the end of Jan.

Very poor. 

[strawhillram]

On 17/11/2021 at 09:08, Curtains said:

Could be 4 half dozen yet 

In all seriousness this is a capitulation to the EFL 

How we have fallen 

I congratulate our negotiating  team on getting the maximum penalty  that was on the table, with an added bonus of transfer restrictions and wage limits for the rest of the season. well done 

[strawhillram]

20 hours ago, BucksRam said:

There's a few things I want (for Christmas), among which:

1. I want to see us continue to fight with the amazing spirit shown so far - I don't want to see capitulation and if we do go down, as is sadly likely, we do so head held high, proud and fighting
2. I want a new buyer in, without an ego, who is ready to bring real stability to this great club, and one ready to commit to at least the next decade, rebuilding a sustainable, successful club even if that happens to be in League 1 (for now). 
3. I want our academy to continue to go from strength to strength, maintaining its status as one of the best in the country and for our U23s, U18s et al continue to be a success
4. I want our Women's team to continue the excellent progress shown to date such that, with support and development it can establish itself as the one of the contending women's teams nationally (I won't say in the WSL specifically as we don't want the same issues as we're now in for the men!). 
5. Oh, and I want a publicly available independent review of everything the EFL has done to so many great clubs, not just us, covering:

• their complete and utter inability to consistently protect and represent the members they claim to hold in such esteem whilst only seemingly looking after their own self-interests.
• operating a framework and infrastructure that enables, promotes and allows financial suicide to attain PL status and the financial rewards attached,
• their complete inability to consistently apply and understand their own rules,
• their inability to act in a timely fashion on key decisions, whilst at the same time imposing penalties on members for not acting in a timely fashion according to the EFL
• (allegedly) allowing external parties to influence decisions, 
• their penchant for showing hidden agendas on what they want (use of such phrases as "disappointing....")
• creating an environment that allows clubs to sue each other where the basis of the claims is as a result of the EFL's decisions, not the club being sued
• their seeming ability to ignore and not hold to account the many clubs blatantly ignoring the rules, gaining promotion and not being held to account
• not fighting for their members by allowing and accepting horrendous TV deals / parachute payments that by their nature create a massively disproportionate financial tier system in the leagues (one of the reasons they hated MM from the get go).
• I'm sure there's more but I've run out of puff

Otherwise the efl is quite good ?

[Foreveram]

2 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

I congratulate our negotiating  team on getting the maximum penalty  that was on the table, with an added bonus of transfer restrictions and wage limits for the rest of the season. well done 

Not done a lot of research have you ?

[Asanovic70]

21 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Don Quixote immediately springs to mind 

Do you mean, like chasing windmills? If so, it's a good analogy. The impossible dream & all that.

 

..............

I know the system is rigged against teams with the parachute payment, but I would counter that you don't have to follow the example of our erstwhile owner. I'm not sure I agree that Brentford broke any rules; they used data analytics to bring in players & re-invested in the team & have a link to the Danish league as a source for playing staff. A figure of £200m is often cited in relation to Brentford but I saw an article on the DET/similar online paper, that said Benham had a fortune of around £60m (his sports data company).

They sold talent in the tens of millions. I can't think of us doing similar, we've always sold players like Riggott & Christie (early noughties) for relatively low fees, & under Mel, probably our best sale was Hendrick in terms of outlay (home grown) & we recouped our money on Vydra. That's about it.

I feel that there are other ways to develop a club apart from overspending. One is to create a playing identity, like Swansea did, and have returned to doing so. Another is to follow a model of your own, like Brentford, & to a lesser degree, QPR are following it after re-investing the money received on Eze in conjunction with Warburton promoting youth. Stability & time are also undervalued commodities in football. Find the right manager & give him time, some managers & clubs are good fits, like Robins at Coventry.

We need to find a strategy that suits us or that our fan-base have to buy into. That will require some thought & is easier said than done.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Asanovic70

[simmoram1995]

45 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

Starting to feel as though the administrators are cut from the same cloth as Mr Morris. 
 

I’ve listened intently to their interviews over the past few months, and they confidently said that the EFL has offered them a lower points deduction and they were very confident of the appeal etc. Suddenly we were dropping said appeal and accepting 9 points. 
 

More importantly, the administrators said they would conclude by the end of December with a week or twos grace either side. 
 

Today Mr Jackson has come out saying he said  that it was always unlikely and was wishful thinking, hoping that they could try to sort by the end of Jan.

Very poor. 

Mate, disagree, if you read up on the maximum penalties for what Derby did we could have easily got -21 total for FFP alone for every breach year , then was going to be -14 then managed to get it down to -9 which is essentially half what we potentially could have got.

 

as for the takeover it was a statement of we’d like it to not it will be completed , if you add in the farce with the efl, the compensation claims by Wycombe and Boro, talks with creditors and potential new owners it was always going to be optimistic a December timeframe 

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, simmoram1995 said:

Mate, disagree, if you read up on the maximum penalties for what Derby did we could have easily got -21 total for FFP alone for every breach year , then was going to be -14 then managed to get it down to -9 which is essentially half what we potentially could have got.

 

as for the takeover it was a statement of we’d like it to not it will be completed , if you add in the farce with the efl, the compensation claims by Wycombe and Boro, talks with creditors and potential new owners it was always going to be optimistic a December timeframe 

Their priority is the long term sustainability of DCFC.

That starts with a clean slate with the EFL, then the creditors, then the stadium owners.

Once those things have been cleared up we can get new owners and a new business plan.

We we’re always going to struggle to stay up and the points deduction is better now than later.

Let’s hope January is a good month.

[DCFC27]

12 minutes ago, simmoram1995 said:

Mate, disagree, if you read up on the maximum penalties for what Derby did we could have easily got -21 total for FFP alone for every breach year , then was going to be -14 then managed to get it down to -9 which is essentially half what we potentially could have got.

 

as for the takeover it was a statement of we’d like it to not it will be completed , if you add in the farce with the efl, the compensation claims by Wycombe and Boro, talks with creditors and potential new owners it was always going to be optimistic a December timeframe 

There was an interview a few weeks back where they said they had negotiated the 9 points down to “next to nothing”. 
 

The takeover like I said, they said in the same interview they’re planning to exit admin in December but would give themselves a weeks grace. There was not maybe about the statement, which I thought was odd at the time.

 

 

 

 

[DCFC27]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

When and where did they say that?

Can’t remember the date, I’m certain it was after we announced the appeal against the 12 points. I remember as he seemed to say that the EFL had encouraged the Appeal too.  
I do think it was on TalkSPORT if memory serves me right. 

The interview was very much, we’re getting rid of the 12 points and we’re confident that we’ve arranged to settle the 9 down to a negligible amount. Monumental shift 

[Crewton]

3 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

The interview was very much, we’re getting rid of the 12 points and we’re confident that we’ve arranged to settle the 9 down to a negligible amount.

I've never heard them say that. The only places I've ever seen reports of reduced points deductions are in national and local newspapers which made reference to what they "hoped" to achieve, never directly from the mouths of the Administrators. Also, they've always said that December was their optimum timescale, with a proviso that completion could slip into January. Any fan clutching too closely to those ambitions was unwise, because the process in both cases was never in the full control of Quantuma.

[Turk Thrust]

36 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

Do you mean, like chasing windmills? If so, it's a good analogy. The impossible dream & all that.

 

..............

I know the system is rigged against teams with the parachute payment, but I would counter that you don't have to follow the example of our erstwhile owner. I'm not sure I agree that Brentford broke any rules; they used data analytics to bring in players & re-invested in the team & have a link to the Danish league as a source for playing staff. A figure of £200m is often cited in relation to Brentford but I saw an article on the DET/similar online paper, that said Benham had a fortune of around £60m (his sports data company).

They sold talent in the tens of millions. I can't think of us doing similar, we've always sold players like Riggott & Christie (early noughties) for relatively low fees, & under Mel, probably our best sale was Hendrick in terms of outlay (home grown) & we recouped our money on Vydra. That's about it.

I feel that there are other ways to develop a club apart from overspending. One is to create a playing identity, like Swansea did, and have returned to doing so. Another is to follow a model of your own, like Brentford, & to a lesser degree, QPR are following it after re-investing the money received on Eze in conjunction with Warburton promoting youth. Stability & time are also undervalued commodities in football. Find the right manager & give him time, some managers & clubs are good fits, like Robins at Coventry.

We need to find a strategy that suits us or that our fan-base have to buy into. That will require some thought & is easier said than done.

 

This.   Well set out, and oh and the phrase is “tilting at windmills” though he was chasing dreams.

[jono]

4 hours ago, StrawHillRam said:

I congratulate our negotiating  team on getting the maximum penalty  that was on the table, with an added bonus of transfer restrictions and wage limits for the rest of the season. well done 

They had very little to negotiate with. The only rabbit they had was the Covid Force Majeur. They used this to get it all done this season. The EFL other wise would have held back to hit us again next season. This would have adversely affected their chances of selling us at an optimum price - this is their obligation as administrators. 
 

it’s unjust. The EFL have acted improperly and in a thoroughly unsporting and partisan manner, but it doesn’t alter why the admins had to act as they did. 
 

The EFL’s behaviour and ethics are the lowest of the low. I want to say corrupt, but really they are just weak self interested, pathetic and beneath contempt.