Accounts Submission Date Extension

[SamUltraRam]

The 'Derby Deserve Relegation' thread on the Bristol City forum is up to 15 pages now

(although about 12 pages of that are from Mr Pops talking to himself)

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

In the scam documentary, he told the fake reporters that he had £140M of outstanding loans, but they wouldn't have to pay those back, they could write them off gradually over a number of seasons which would "be beneficial in terms of FFP". What he'd get back would therefore depend on what they paid for the purchase of the club etc.

 

3 hours ago, OohMartWright said:

If Mel allowed the club to write off loans due to him (the correct term is "debt forgiveness"), this would constitute income in the hands of the club at the point at which each amount was waived. If these amounts were done piecemeal over several seasons then the appropriate proportion would be reflected in each season's accounts. I'm not sure whether the FFP rules have any special provisions about this, but given that it is most definitely "income" it should indeed be beneficial.

 

3 hours ago, rammieib said:

I wonder if he is theoretically including the stadium in there?

At 30 June 2018, MM (or another of his companies) OWED the cub circa £80m.

For us to now be in a position of owing £140m to MM would mean he would have injected £220m into the club in the last 3 years. Absolutely no chance. 

 

[Carnero]

20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

 

At 30 June 2018, MM (or another of his companies) OWED the cub circa £80m.

For us to now be in a position of owing £140m to MM would mean he would have injected £220m into the club in the last 3 years. Absolutely no chance. 

 

The loans sit in the parent company. The club itself was debt-free as at 30 June 2018 as you have correctly pointed out many times before.

[Rampage]

13 hours ago, Woodley Ram said:

I think this is all about negotiations, my thoughts are that they are negotiating a penalty that we will agree to not appeal as both parties want to put an end to this. I am expecting a 3-6 point deduction maybe some of it suspended based on failing to file accounts, little bit of FFP, failing to pay bills. Things put together that we will accept. 

3 points now plus 3 points if we win the Prem. Half decent offer imo.

[G STAR RAM]

54 minutes ago, Carnero said:

The loans sit in the parent company. The club itself was debt-free as at 30 June 2018 as you have correctly pointed out many times before.

Didn't see the Al Jazeera thing but don't see how MM writing the loans off has any P&S benefit for the club.

[Gringo]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Didn't see the Al Jazeera thing but don't see how MM writing the loans off has any P&S benefit for the club.

The debt written off will in my understanding be counted as income and would therefore be taxable, the debt write off by the creditors would count as losses on their P&L and therefore could be offset against tax, this is my understanding but as ever I could always be wrong but the scenario makes sense

[Gringo]

4 hours ago, SamUltraRam said:

The 'Derby Deserve Relegation' thread on the Bristol City forum is up to 15 pages now

(although about 12 pages of that are from Mr Pops talking to himself)

 

 

Mr Popadjikupmias, has basically rewritten the same post 70 times, I think he is the football forum equivalent of a stalker, we should take out an injunction 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

The debt written off will in my understanding be counted as income and would therefore be taxable, the debt write off by the creditors would count as losses on their P&L and therefore could be offset against tax, this is my understanding but as ever I could always be wrong but the scenario makes sense

But the debt is in another company. 

Also the debts are nothing to do with trade so doubt this has any tax consequences. 

[Gringo]

Trade not important a creditor is a creditor regardless of the reason for the debt. I do not know what paperwork is available to secure any cash Mel has injected but o believe it will exist. All will be revealed when the accounts are filed and we see the balance sheet

[Rev]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Didn't see the Al Jazeera thing but don't see how MM writing the loans off has any P&S benefit for the club.

As I understood it, a person without a controlling interest in the club can write off loans, and that would class as income for P&S purposes. Which isn't possible for an owner under the current rules.

It seemed to suggest this would be better done over a period of time, I guess in order to spread the benefit over more than one 3 year period.

The above terminology may not be correct, but that was the gist.

 

[CBRammette]

19 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Mr Popadjikupmias, has basically rewritten the same post 70 times, I think he is the football forum equivalent of a stalker, we should take out an injunction 

Do we know why he is just so obsessed with us? Is he the same about any other teams? Its really weird why you would get so het up about a team you have natural rivalry with. I suppose he could originally be from Leeds or Nottingham

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, Rev said:

As I understood it, a person without a controlling interest in the club can write off loans, and that would class as income for P&S purposes. Which isn't possible for an owner under the current rules.

It seemed to suggest this would be better done over a period of time, I guess in order to spread the benefit over more than one 3 year period.

The above terminology may not be correct, but that was the gist.

But doesnt explain how we have gone from having a debtor of £80m to a supposed creditor of £140m?

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But doesnt explain how we have gone from having a debtor of £80m to a supposed creditor of £140m?

Oh, I don't know about that, but I see your point.

Earlier he gave two prices, one for the club and another for the stadium.

I suppose you might glean more from the accounts when they're released.

 

[ram59]

3 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Do we know why he is just so obsessed with us? Is he the same about any other teams? Its really weird why you would get so het up about a team you have natural rivalry with. I suppose he could originally be from Leeds or Nottingham

I wonder what his thoughts are on the likes of Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth, QPR, Watford, etc. All of these teams actually got promoted whilst cheating FFP, at the cost of a club which was complying with FFP. 

[kevinhectoring]

5 hours ago, OohMartWright said:

If Mel allowed the club to write off loans due to him (the correct term is "debt forgiveness"), this would constitute income in the hands of the club at the point at which each amount was waived. If these amounts were done piecemeal over several seasons then the appropriate proportion would be reflected in each season's accounts. I'm not sure whether the FFP rules have any special provisions about this, but given that it is most definitely "income" it should indeed be beneficial.

well I don't get it. My understanding was that the P&S numbers were based off EBITD(a) and I don't understand how a waiver of indebtedness finds its way into EBITD(a). I'd always understood it was a capital transaction that could give rise to a capital gain. Are you sure, OMW?

[Gringo]

15 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

well I don't get it. My understanding was that the P&S numbers were based off EBITD(a) and I don't understand how a waiver of indebtedness finds its way into EBITD(a). I'd always understood it was a capital transaction that could give rise to a capital gain. Are you sure, OMW?

Ebitda is a p&l item and is basically if you are generating cash at not a debt for whatever reason is a balance sheet item and only affects ebitda if interest is paid, that is the i in ebitda if debt is forgiven it is income in the same way the sss as me of the stafium was income

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

42 minutes ago, ram59 said:

I wonder what his thoughts are on the likes of Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth, QPR, Watford, etc. All of these teams actually got promoted whilst cheating FFP, at the cost of a club which was complying with FFP. 

That doesn't seem to fit the remit I'm afraid.  Reading are his new plaything now I should imagine .  At least till accounts are filed . His comments are the same thing over and over and bar a few droogs who seem to hang on his every word, some off his own forum members are getting tired of him bunging up the forum with Derby County accounts. Play the game of categorising his comments using the following chart. 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Gee SCREAMER !!

[kevinhectoring]

16 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Ebitda is a p&l item and is basically if you are generating cash at not a debt for whatever reason is a balance sheet item and only affects ebitda if interest is paid, that is the i in ebitda if debt is forgiven it is income in the same way the sss as me of the stafium was income

this post was a bit garbled so I didn't understand it. I must say I had wondered about the comparison with the stadium sale and concluded that the accountants regarded dealings in the stadium (leases, events or sales) as part of the 'ordinary activities' or trade of the club  How can a waiver of debt be similarly categorised? It's a completely different kettle of fish

[rammieib]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

 

At 30 June 2018, MM (or another of his companies) OWED the cub circa £80m.

For us to now be in a position of owing £140m to MM would mean he would have injected £220m into the club in the last 3 years. Absolutely no chance. 

 

I thought the money for the stadium had been exchanged already, thus Gellaw XXX who own the stadium do not owe the club anything? 

[rammieib]

What is Mel's intention with the stadium within any club sale? Has he said what he wants to do?