Hull City vs Derby County Matchday Thread

[brady1993]

Couple things I found interesting about the game:

• As expected Baldock helps stretch the game out which has a compounding effect on the rest of team making it easier to play
• There was a nice balance with the attacking three midfielders today. Morrison was the only one who would drop deep (often very deep) whereas both Sibley and Jozwiak would stay high and narrow alternating between offering for the ball or looking to run beyond the backline. This had the great effect (combined with Baldock) that Sibley and Jozwiak often managed to get in a lot of space to turn and drive at the defence which I think is the major goal of what we are trying to do tactically.
• There was a bit of a change in how we approached build up play and I think it's the major reason why Bird could flourish. As opposed to both DMs splitting, only Shinnie would pull into the left back slot and in fact Bird would often come more central than his starting position with Morrison often dropping into either side of him. What this meant was Bird saw a hell of a lot more of the ball and could open out onto his stronger foot more readily than when cramped up on the right. It also meant that we could limit how much off the ball was going into Shinnie. I think (but I can't be sure) a lot of this is because Jagielka can be relied upon on the ball on the right so doesn't need as easy an outball to the right off him and is comfortable stepping into that space with the ball. I think to compensate slightly for this Byrne was less forwards. 

 

[brady1993]

Bird's heat map against Peterborough:

And against Hull:

Shows that he's perhaps been given a bit more license to "go where he is needed" and get on the ball in central areas now Jagielka is here.

[brady1993]

18 hours ago, Bianoic said:

Stretton will come on at some point - cant blame the managers for ‘managing’ a young player into his first team career.

Brady - why the comment about Shinnie ? I agree, hes not had a blinding start to the new season. But, he did win supporters player of the year last season so surely must have some worth to us and the team ? 

My comment is because we are trying to get on the ball a lot more the play just breaks down with Shinnie far far too often than you can afford for a player playing that roll. Too often does he either lose the ball, the person he passes to loses the ball quickly (i.e. a bad pass to them) or he really slows the game down when it comes to him. Thing is this problem is going to get worse once teams start targetting him because he is fairly easy to set pressing traps around. As we progress into this new style he needs to get phased out of the starting 11. 

He won that award because he's the type of player who looks good in a bad team. If everything is a scrap and a fight with the ball not sticking whatsoever he looks good because it plays to his strengths but if you aren't careful he can quickly look out of place if you are trying to control the game in any fashion. He has value to the team for sure but not in the starting 11 (especially if we keep with the current tactics and formation).

[brady1993]

19 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

It's not Shinnie that needs replacing. Morrison instead of Bird gives us more attacking threat, with Shinnie protecting the back four.

Shinnie cripples build up play in the current system and his protection of the back four is overrated.

[Brammie Steve]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Don't think that's part of the DCFC Lite membership, I tried and the video doesn't play.

I pay a fiver a month and get the matches the day after on “Matchday relived”

[Dinnitdough]

First W of the season. Congrats everyone! 

[Wolfie20]

10 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Shinnie cripples build up play in the current system and his protection of the back four is overrated.

Putting Morrison and Bird in front of the back four and decent opposition would soon rampage through our lightweight midfield, exposing our 2 CBs (as competent as they are at this level).

Shinnie is probably a level down from Eustace but even in those days there were fans who refused to acknowledge the importance of having someone in that defensive midfielder role. Given our current position in the Championship and the unlikely possibility of us mounting any sort of serious challenge for a play-off position, it's essential we have a certain physical presence in our midfield and until a fully-fit Bielik is back in the squad Shinnie is the only player in the squad who will provide that.

[atherstoneram]

7 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Putting Morrison and Bird in front of the back four and decent opposition would soon rampage through our lightweight midfield, exposing our 2 CBs (as competent as they are at this level).

Shinnie is probably a level down from Eustace but even in those days there were fans who refused to acknowledge the importance of having someone in that defensive midfielder role. Given our current position in the Championship and the unlikely possibility of us mounting any sort of serious challenge for a play-off position, it's essential we have a certain physical presence in our midfield and until a fully-fit Bielik is back in the squad Shinnie is the only player in the squad who will provide that.

This is the sort of match Shinnie should be playing in, we need a player who will get stuck in, harass and close down the opposition when they get the ball. Give them a bit of needle to rile them up. 

[Curtains]

2 hours ago, Phoenix said:

They have hotels in Hull? Sure it wasn't the local S.A.?

Hull is a fabulous place now.  The Quay area is great.  

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, Wolfie20 said:

Putting Morrison and Bird in front of the back four and decent opposition would soon rampage through our lightweight midfield, exposing our 2 CBs (as competent as they are at this level).

Shinnie is probably a level down from Eustace but even in those days there were fans who refused to acknowledge the importance of having someone in that defensive midfielder role. Given our current position in the Championship and the unlikely possibility of us mounting any sort of serious challenge for a play-off position, it's essential we have a certain physical presence in our midfield and until a fully-fit Bielik is back in the squad Shinnie is the only player in the squad who will provide that.

You say that but of the two of them Bird has been the better defensively this season. His positioning is a lot better and he doesn't get drawn out position in the same way. Personally I wouldn't necessarily punt for Morrison and Bird as a two as it could have problems defensively but so would Morrison-Shinnie because Morrison is an attacking player who drifts around and liable to not get his positioning right in defensive areas. I have doubts about getting rampaged through but the flip side is you get rampaged through a lot less if you don't give up possession cheaply in dangerous areas. 

Honestly Shinnie is a completely different player than Eustace. People view Shinnie as a Eustace with legs but really he's better tackling worse attacking Bryson. Eustace was excellent at being in the right place at the right time, screening the back four and generally marshalling space all whilst being reliable in possession. Shinnie's main strength is energy and going out to harry players, he's a ball winner rather than a holding midfielder. To be honest there are very few things I'd consider essential in football it's all about trade offs with player's qualities. Do they bring enough X to make up for Y and for my money Shinnie is falling shy in that regard right now. As an aside I do think Shinnie's physicality is somewhat overstated; he's garbage in the air and is pretty easy to disposses shoulder to shoulder and if you want a very controversial take Bird is becoming a more physically robust player than him......  

[Rampage]

6 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

An attack made up of Ravell, Stretton and Jozwiak. Engineers love an RSJ....

Some players were strutting around lady night at times and some of the game was riveting. This formation looked welded together with one purpose and the span of our play was exciting. A good foundation is being laid, so now we need to cement our improvement.

[Yani P]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

Bird's heat map against Peterborough:

And against Hull:

Shows that he's perhaps been given a bit more license to "go where he is needed" and get on the ball in central areas now Jagielka is here.

Looks like a nasty storm heading towards London..

[Rampage]

14 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

You say that but of the two of them Bird has been the better defensively this season. His positioning is a lot better and he doesn't get drawn out position in the same way. Personally I wouldn't necessarily punt for Morrison and Bird as a two as it could have problems defensively but so would Morrison-Shinnie because Morrison is an attacking player who drifts around and liable to not get his positioning right in defensive areas. I have doubts about getting rampaged through but the flip side is you get rampaged through a lot less if you don't give up possession cheaply in dangerous areas. 

Honestly Shinnie is a completely different player than Eustace. People view Shinnie as a Eustace with legs but really he's better tackling worse attacking Bryson. Eustace was excellent at being in the right place at the right time, screening the back four and generally marshalling space all whilst being reliable in possession. Shinnie's main strength is energy and going out to harry players, he's a ball winner rather than a holding midfielder. To be honest there are very few things I'd consider essential in football it's all about trade offs with player's qualities. Do they bring enough X to make up for Y and for my money Shinnie is falling shy in that regard right now. As an aside I do think Shinnie's physicality is somewhat overstated; he's garbage in the air and is pretty easy to disposses shoulder to shoulder and if you want a very controversial take Bird is becoming a more physically robust player than him......  

The only way I see we could have done better last night was taking more chances or having better players doing the same roles as last night and so eliminating errors which would have been punished by better teams than Hull.

[Yani P]

17 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Hull is a fabulous place now.  The Quay area is great.  

You work for their tourism department?

[Rampage]

2 minutes ago, Yani P said:

Looks like a nasty storm heading towards London..

This is a Jimi Hendrix purple haze heat map. I think.

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, Rampage said:

The only way I see we could have done better last night was taking more chances or having better players doing the same roles as last night and so eliminating errors which would have been punished by better teams than Hull.

Yeah I agree. There were a couple errors from Shinnie in the first 30 and one from Davies (I think) that a better team could have used to open us up. Alongside taking chances there were a couple moments where better decisions in forward areas could be made but I think will come with time and lack of rustiness on the part of Morrison.

[Wolfie20]

5 minutes ago, Rampage said:

The only way I see we could have done better last night was taking more chances or having better players doing the same roles as last night and so eliminating errors which would have been punished by better teams than Hull.

Agreed. However, Shinnie wasn't responsible for the missed chances so no blame attached to him and re your point about better players - yes please but we are a struggling Championship club and if we had those better players then come the end of the season we'd probably be in the automatic places.

[Rampage]

Just now, Wolfie20 said:

Agreed. However, Shinnie wasn't responsible for the missed chances so no blame attached to him and re your point about better players - yes please but we are a struggling Championship club and if we had those better players then come the end of the season we'd probably be in the automatic places.

Would be nice. I was pretty much saying that everyone did very well last night. They played as a team, they worked very hard, they kept calm in their shape, looked confident and showed determination to win the game. Some of these factors have been missing, especially during last season.

[Foreveram]

4 hours ago, angieram said:

There's a very comfortable Holiday Inn at the marina. Rooms with balconies overlooking the water.

Just got back from there, a very enjoyable two days, more expensive since it became the city of culture. Some people only see the area around the ground and form their opinion around that.

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, Yani P said:

You work for their tourism department?

Do they have one ?