Hull City vs Derby County Matchday Thread

[Bianoic]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Not his best game yesterday but I'd stick with Roos. 

I agree. Roos for the first time it seems to me was starting to actually earn us points this season with his saves, in the way that Carson did when he was at his peak. Be harsh to drop him after one mediocre game.

Personally I always feel rotating or chopping and changing keepers cannot be a helpful policy for the team. Make a decision and stick with it for a good while

Finally it does seem as if something has happened behind the scenes with Marshall. For an international goalkeeper who has just been playing in a major tournament to be deemed not capable of making even the bench of a team who has only won once in nearly 20 games doesnt make any logical sense.

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, Ravabeerbelly said:

He played 60% of his passes in his own half. By the time we got on top on the second half and Salford were tiring and being pressed back to their own box, I agree he was then further up but 35 yards out is pretty much where a full back would be attacking from and in this system with Esobele 20 yards further up and wider that is where a DM is playing from. 

That 60% stat will be skewed by how deep he was first half though...he was practically LB at times.

I'd certainly agree with you he needs work but his darting runs, solid technique & vision are assets that for me, indicate a player better in the final 3rd. At worst he's anonymous there whereas he'd be a liability at DM...seen nothing from him defensively to suggest he could do that role & as a basic requirement, we need to be solid at the back. Guess with limited options & a need for our youth to improve, we'll find out soon enough if he can kick on ?

[Ravabeerbelly]

17 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

That 60% stat will be skewed by how deep he was first half though...he was practically LB at times.

Absolutely. That was my point really. That’s where he was getting more of the ball and playing his passes. As the game wore on Salford’s positioning was deeper which in turn affected ours. His actual position did t change he was just further up the pitch slightly as was everyone else. He still was largely unopposed in terms of pressure on the ball.

17 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I'd certainly agree with you he needs work but his darting runs, solid technique & vision are assets that for me, indicate a player better in the final 3rd

I don’t disagree with what you feel are his assets ? I just feel they’re better served getting the ball to other players in the final third as opposed to receiving it in the final third ?

17 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

At worst he's anonymous there whereas he'd be a liability at DM...seen nothing from him defensively to suggest he could do that role & as a basic requirement, we need to be solid at the back

I don’t disagree. Which is why for me at the moment he’s not a starter. We have more effective players in the final third (he was also largely ineffective there v Notts County too remember?) and as you say we’d be massively exposed if he was one of the holders. Also, as you say we aren’t going to score many so being tight at the back is essential.

Good discussion ?

Edited August 15, 2021 by Ravabeerbelly

[LeedsCityRam]

10 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Ebosele's positioning leaves a lot to be desired though which is a major problem for the right back area. Against Peterborough 3 or 4 times in the first half he just drifted way too far inwards and allowed the ball to be played over him into space. Their main attacking threat in the first half was down the right and that was partly due to his poor positioning. Agree Byrne has had a shocking start to the season but think he deserves a bit of latitude given how good he was for us last year. 

Morrison and Bird don't offer enough protection either for what is an old cb pairing and an ageing forsyth for me either. There's not enough positional awareness nor strength and tackling ability. That defence needs protection if we're not going to concede almost 2 a game and there's no way we're scoring 3 or 4. In the second half against Peterborough again we saw the problems dembele caused for us and there were plenty of times that the ball dropped in the middle third and they picked it up causing us defensive problems. For me it has to be a shinnie morrison midfield 2 as Shinnie and Bird doesn't work. 

I think having a fluid front 4 is a good idea but personally I don't really get the love for watson atm. Never really seen him do much at this level to justify him starting. He was pretty much anonymous against Huddersfield and from memory he was last season when he came off the bench too. Even though ebosele wasn't great against Peterborough and I agree with your reasoning about him needing space to run into, I think I'd bench watson and put ebosele in that attacking right position rotating him around with the other 3 am's if possible. 

I think Bird's defensive work is really under-rated & actually been impressed with how well Morrison has screened the back 4. He's also good in the air, always a good trait for a DM. Re Dembele, his most effective period was when Morrison had left the field & Shinnie was doing little to stop him running straight onto the back 4.

Don't disagree Ebosele has some positional issues but he'd have to go some to defend as badly as Byrne yesterday. Having such an experienced back 4 should help him also. Idea is his pace would drive back their left side anyway & his pace probably be more effective coming from deep.

[mozza]

Will i be able to avoid the red button at all costs? As owd William would say, 'that is the question'

[Carnero]

                        Roos

Byrne  Stearman  Davies  Buchanan

        Watson    Bird    Morrison

              Sibley     Lawrence

                     Stretton

[Poynton ram]

Is this game on the red button?

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Poynton ram said:

Is this game on the red button?

No.

Championship Football News, Fixtures Results, Table | Sky Sports

[Comrade 86]

Just play Ravel in central midfield FFS! If there's one player in the side currently who can put Festy, Tom and Jack in behind the opposition defence it's Morrison. Maximise his opportunity to do so by playing him in the heart of of midfield 3 and preferably with only one of Bird and Shinnie, not both.

Against teams like Posh, we need to pay our football and let them worry about us, not vice versa. I thought the line-up against Salford, while somewhat forced upon us, might herald a sea-change to a more progressive style of football. After a very shaky first 20 minutes, we actually looked a half decent passing team with significant attacking threat, albeit against modest opposition. A few days later and we're straight back to the mind-numbing 'strategy' we saw throughout the final third of last season. 

[Leeds Ram]

2 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think Bird's defensive work is really under-rated & actually been impressed with how well Morrison has screened the back 4. He's also good in the air, always a good trait for a DM. Re Dembele, his most effective period was when Morrison had left the field & Shinnie was doing little to stop him running straight onto the back 4.

Don't disagree Ebosele has some positional issues but he'd have to go some to defend as badly as Byrne yesterday. Having such an experienced back 4 should help him also. Idea is his pace would drive back their left side anyway & his pace probably be more effective coming from deep.

For me Bird simply isn't strong enough or effective enough in the tackle to be the defensive midfielder in a 2. Seen it in multiple games where he can get bullied off the ball too easily, isn't strong enough in the tackle and doesn't have the awareness necessary to be responsible for it. I actually don't think the back 4 was screened particularly  brilliantly in the second half yesterday- a lot of loose balls in the final 3rd were picked up by Peterborough before Morrison went off on 75 minutes or so.

Our good period in the game coincided with a much stronger pressing game from the front 4 that hemmed Peterborough in, I think this is where we need to be thinking for a defensive strategy over the season. I just think a Bird-Morrison duo in the middle would struggle to provide necessary cover and get overrun by a lot of teams if they did break the press or when teams do have a good period of pressure. 

He would but that was an unusually bad performance by Byrne. I think if you average it out Byrne is the much better defender and actually a stronger attacking threat than ebosele at rb anyway. You get the strength of his pace at RAM pushing them back but without the positioning problems being quite so acute as at rb. Ideally, ebsoele would only be used as a late sub option in my book at this level anyway. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Leeds Ram

[derby8]

Derby at Hull best 4-0 in 2018, LC.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

For me Bird simply isn't strong enough or effective enough in the tackle to be the defensive midfielder in a 2. Seen it in multiple games where he can get bullied off the ball too easily, isn't strong enough in the tackle and doesn't have the awareness necessary to be responsible for it. I actually don't think the back 4 was screened particularly  brilliantly in the second half yesterday- a lot of loose balls in the final 3rd were picked up by Peterborough before Morrison went off on 75 minutes or so.

I read this type of criticism often about Bird & I wonder what I'm seeing so differently. The modern game rewards players that don't go to ground when defending. This is exactly what Max is so good at...his positioning & sense of 'danger' is very good which means he often tracks the runner & either intercepts the ball or eases the runner off the ball.

I rate Bird's defensive work higher than Shinnie, who is old school, goes to ground but gets more plaudits from our fans because he's high energy & they equate that with 'passion'. Unfortunately the reason for that is because he's often drifting out of position & slow to react to danger so his only option is to do 'last ditch'.

Edited August 15, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Rammy03]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

No.

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That's odd

[RoyMac5]

49 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

That's odd

Why?

There's some in September. Don't think red button covers all midweek games.

[Rammy03]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why?

There's some in September. Don't think red button covers all midweek games.

I thought it did

[Philmycock]

Lawrence up top for this

[1967Ram]

9 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I wasn’t at the game yesterday but watched it on TV. Didn’t the commentator say, at one point, we’d left three players up field for one in their corners meaning they had to leave 4 players back to cover? Interesting tactic if true.

I watched it on TV so can't confirm it but that is what was said. If true I hope we maintain this approach and have at least one person left up front whenever we defend a corner or free-kick.

[Sparkle]

9 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I wasn’t at the game yesterday but watched it on TV. Didn’t the commentator say, at one point, we’d left three players up field for one in their corners meaning they had to leave 4 players back to cover? Interesting tactic if true.

I have been advocating this for seasons upon seasons - if they can run fast ( some can) and most importantly useless consistently at winning headers then stay well away from our penalty area for example Jozwiak probably Sibley and actually Lawrence because he never wins any headers in our box 

[Sparkle]

7 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Just play Ravel in central midfield FFS! If there's one player in the side currently who can put Festy, Tom and Jack in behind the opposition defence it's Morrison. Maximise his opportunity to do so by playing him in the heart of of midfield 3 and preferably with only one of Bird and Shinnie, not both.

Against teams like Posh, we need to pay our football and let them worry about us, not vice versa. I thought the line-up against Salford, while somewhat forced upon us, might herald a sea-change to a more progressive style of football. After a very shaky first 20 minutes, we actually looked a half decent passing team with significant attacking threat, albeit against modest opposition. A few days later and we're straight back to the mind-numbing 'strategy' we saw throughout the final third of last season. 

I thought Watson threaded some great balls through the Salford defence yes it’s Salford but let’s see in real football 

[BramcoteRam84]

On 14/08/2021 at 20:30, Leeds Ram said:

Going to this one with my friend provided they send the tickets in time or i can use my order form to gain entry. At least with stretton starting the horseshoe will be disposed of and put in the bin where it belongs. Tactics need to be simplified and inject some tempo into our attacking if we're to make any headway at all. QPR did these lot 3-0 today after they beat preston 4-1 away from home so not sure what to expect. 

Watched the highlights, had a couple of big moments trying to equalise, QPR looked they were hanging on. Then QPR got second against the run of play then Hull capitulated lucky it was only 3 - not helped by going down to 10 men. This will be a tough game but encouraging they give away bad goals - like another team we know and love. McGennis the NI striker is useful, big lump, real handful but that suits Curtis and Stearman.